Author Topic: What Bullies know about Bullying  (Read 12657 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Curious George

  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2009, 03:20:47 AM »
Your a real clown, dumb ass and shit eater if you can't read between the lines.  I'm not talking to you fool.

CG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2009, 03:24:14 AM »
I cant even bring myself to read that woodbury thing, the irony is just so blatant and sad.

everybody now...

Lon talking about combating bullying is like... (I'll go first)

A skinhead talking about cultural awareness


who's next?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Curious George

  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2009, 04:01:49 AM »
@CG

Didn't you read the unknown asshole with his head up his ass part???

CG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2009, 11:19:40 AM »
Quote from: "Curious George"
"The only way to survive in this life is to manipulate....and then you will get what you want.....there are life lessons in every situation....look for them and you will gain alot of knowledge and wisdom...to figure out life is impossible, but to manipulate is easy.".......aka, unknown asshole profit with his head up his ass.
Sounds to me like that came from one of those LGAT gooroo "human potential experts" like Werner Erhard of est aka Landmark Forum, or ... Bob Hoffman!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2009, 11:40:00 AM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
I cant even bring myself to read that woodbury thing, the irony is just so blatant and sad.

everybody now...

Lon talking about combating bullying is like... (I'll go first)

A skinhead talking about cultural awareness


who's next?
I'll bite. How 'bout: "Lon talking about combating bullying is like..."

    ... (War profiteer) George W. Bush claiming he only wanted "peace" for the Middle East.

Seriously, I had the same visceral reaction reading Malcolm's take on it in the OP. The incredibility factor went through the roof when he actually used a comparison to "Lord of the Flies" as an example of what Hyde does NOT do!  :eek:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2009, 06:36:50 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
I cant even bring myself to read that woodbury thing, the irony is just so blatant and sad.

everybody now...

Lon talking about combating bullying is like... (I'll go first)

A skinhead talking about cultural awareness


who's next?

Idi Amin conducting a victim awareness workshop
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
School bullying laws give scant protection
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2009, 10:39:09 AM »
Here is a copy of the article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution mentioned in Lon's bullying essay on the previous page.

There is a reference to Hyde in this piece; perhaps obscure, perhaps not. Who can find it?


Alternative link for story: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... laws_N.htm

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

School bullying laws give scant protection
Written By: Atlanta Journal-Constitution
14-9-09
Categorized in: Behavioral Health - EducationNews, EducationNews Today, K-12 EducationNews


ATLANTA (AP) — Laws meant to protect youngsters from playground bullies are largely ineffective, according to an Associated Press review, and several students' recent suicides have parents and advocates calling for tougher measures.

Forty-four states expressly ban bullying, a legislative legacy of a rash of school shootings in the late '90s, yet few if any of those measures have identified children who excessively pick on their peers, an Associated Press review has found. And few offer any method for ensuring the policies are enforced, according to data compiled by the National Council of State Legislatures.

The issue came to a head in April when Jaheem Jaheem, 11, committed suicide at his Atlanta-area home after his parents say he was repeatedly tormented in school. District officials denied it, and an independent review found bullying wasn't a factor, a conclusion his family rejects.

Regardless, Georgia's law, among the toughest in the nation, still would not have applied: It only applies to students in grades six to 12. Jaheem was a fifth-grader.

Georgia's law has one of the largest gaps between what it requires of districts and the tools it gives them for meeting those requirements. The state doesn't collect data specifically on bullying occurrences, despite legislation that promises to strip state funding from schools failing to take action after three instances involving a bully.

After Jaheem's death, other parents came forward to say their children had been bullied and that school officials did nothing with the complaints, rendering the state's law useless.

"There is a systematic problem," said Mike Wilson, who said his 12-year-old daughter was bullied for two years in the same school district where Jaheem died. "The lower level employees, the teachers, the principals, are trying to keep this information suppressed at the lowest possible level."

Only six states — Montana, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, North Dakota and South Dakota — and the District of Columbia lack specific laws targeting school bullying, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Most states require school districts to adopt open-ended policies to prohibit bullying and harassment.

While some direct state education officials to form model policies that school districts should mimic, they offer little to assure the policies are enforced; only a handful of states require specific data gathering meant to assure bullying is being monitored, for instance.

"The states themselves can't micromanage a school district — but they can say to a school district, 'Look, you have to have consequences,'" said Brenda High, whose website, Bully Police USA, tracks anti-bullying laws across the nation, and who advocates for strict repercussions for bullies. The Washington state-based advocate's son, Jared, was 13 when he committed suicide in 1998 after complaining of bullying.

"It needs to be written into the law that bullying has the same consequences as assault," she said. "The records and such need to be kept so that if the child is a chronic bully, they — after so many instances — will end up in an alternative school."

Alaska and Georgia have particularly specific statutes. Alaska's Department of Education and Early Development must compile annual data on bullying complaints and report it to the Legislature.

Georgia's 10-year-old law goes a step further. It specifies that three instances of bullying is grounds for transfer to an alternative school, away from the victim. School systems not in compliance forfeit state funding, according to the law.

Despite that record-keeping provision, the Georgia Department of Education cannot say whether any child has been transferred as a result of bullying because the department only tracks the number for broader offenses, including fighting and threats, spokesman Dana Tofig said.

No school has lost funding under the law, according to the department.

Some school districts say they keep track of complaints, especially those involving a single child being bullied more than once, and that they address those cases. Without a legal obligation to report such data to state officials, however, it's unclear how any such statistics are used.

In 2007, nearly a third of students ages 12 to 18 reported having been bullied during the school year, according to data on more than 55 million students compiled annually by the National Center for Education Statistics. That's up from as few as 1 in 10 students in the '90s, though bullying experts point out the rising numbers may reflect more reports of bullying, not necessarily more incidents.

Many children reported teasing, spreading rumors and threats, all harder to spot and manage, school leaders say.

"One of the questions is how do you quantify bullying? It could even be as simple as a rolling of the eyes," said Dale Davis, a spokesman for schools in DeKalb County, Ga., where Jaheem committed suicide.

District officials said soon after the boy's death that there was no evidence Jaheem was bullied, and that outside factors including the death of a close relative influenced him to take his life.

Jaheem's death in mid-April came barely two weeks after Sirdeaner Walker found her son Carl hanged in her Springfield, Mass., home. The 11-year-old had complained of teasing almost immediately after arriving at his new charter school, she said.

Parents in Illinois likewise pointed to bullies after three suicides there in February: a 10-year-old boy hanged himself in a restroom stall in a suburban Chicago school, an 11-year-old boy was found dead in Chatham, south of Springfield, and a father found his 11-year-old daughter hanged in a closet of their Chicago home.

Dr. Diahann Meekins Moore, associate director for psychiatric services at the Illinois Department of Children & Family Services, cautioned that it's unclear whether bullying could be considered a primary cause in those deaths or in any suicide.

All the same, every suicide with a hint of bullying, every school rampage involving a shooter who claims to have been bullied renews the debate over whether anyone can curb what most consider a harsh and inevitable part of childhood, and if so, who bears that responsibility.

"A lot of this has to be handled in the home," said Peter Daboul, chair of the board of trustees at New Leadership, the Massachusetts school where Walker-Hoover was a 6th grader.

Teachers there will receive training on spotting childhood depression and bullying, he said, "but you also have the family unit where these kids are hopefully taught the difference between right and wrong."

Sirdeaner Walker said reminding a child that they're loved at home is less effective when they're being teased in the classroom.

"I can say that all the time," Walker said. "But again, I have to send my child back to the school."

 
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Curious George

  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2009, 12:48:44 PM »
What about teaching them reality including self-defence instead of zero tolerance policies?

zero tolerance doesn't work in the real world.  Why?  Because it doesn't teach a measured response which has been the basis of common law for centuries.

You didn't stop Hitler by negotiating, appeasing him or employing the conflict resolution model, if someone did, I'll gladly change my position.

How many countries do we have in the world, over 180?  How many wars going on concurrently, over 120?  What gives?  After all, shouldn't they be able to just talk this out?

Let's try teaching the truth for a while, and expecting people to act responsibly, and when they don't, make them, according to the measured response model.  This way, no-one's spirit will be broken, independent, free-thinkers are welcome to do as such, as long as they don't hurt anyone.

CG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2009, 06:04:29 PM »
Quote from: "Curious George"
What about teaching them reality including self-defence instead of zero tolerance policies?

zero tolerance doesn't work in the real world.  Why?  Because it doesn't teach a measured response which has been the basis of common law for centuries.

You didn't stop Hitler by negotiating, appeasing him or employing the conflict resolution model, if someone did, I'll gladly change my position.

How many countries do we have in the world, over 180?  How many wars going on concurrently, over 120?  What gives?  After all, shouldn't they be able to just talk this out?

Let's try teaching the truth for a while, and expecting people to act responsibly, and when they don't, make them, according to the measured response model.  This way, no-one's spirit will be broken, independent, free-thinkers are welcome to do as such, as long as they don't hurt anyone.

CG
Zero tolerance = zero tolerance for everything except bullying, as far as public schools go. So a kid who is a victim of bullying will get locked up if s/he overreacts, yet the bully gets to continue his bullying.

Makes sense, if you're trying to create a society which will accept every new bullshit policy paring down freedoms and stripping individual's rights away. Makes sense, if you're trying to create a society that steps in tune with "might makes right."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
New Leadership Charter School in Springfield, Mass.
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2009, 06:12:06 PM »
From the above-posted Atlanta Journal-Constitution article, "School bullying laws give scant protection":
Quote
...Jaheem's death in mid-April came barely two weeks after Sirdeaner Walker found her son Carl hanged in her Springfield, Mass., home. The 11-year-old had complained of teasing almost immediately after arriving at his new charter school, she said.

<...snip snip...>

"A lot of this has to be handled in the home," said Peter Daboul, chair of the board of trustees at New Leadership, the Massachusetts school where Walker-Hoover was a 6th grader.

Teachers there will receive training on spotting childhood depression and bullying, he said, "but you also have the family unit where these kids are hopefully taught the difference between right and wrong."


Sirdeaner Walker said reminding a child that they're loved at home is less effective when they're being teased in the classroom.

"I can say that all the time," Walker said. "But again, I have to send my child back to the school."
Anyone care to venture a guess as to WHO founded New Leadership Charter School in Springfield, Massachusetts?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2009, 06:30:48 PM »
I still maintain that nothing cures a bout of bullying more effectively than a sucker punch to the back of the head with a bag of rocks.

If the school or the other parent gets on my kid's case about it? I'll sure as shit go to bat for him/her.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Curious George

  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2009, 06:51:41 PM »
Ursus,

I am not one to strip away individual rights in any form.  I'm a firm believer that those who sacrifice essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither.

My point is that children need to be taught how to handle real life situations that are appropriate for the circumstances, hence, a measured response.  Zero tolerance does not teach a measured responce, i.e. you shouldn't get the death penalty for stealing a gum ball.  In the school setting, a child who stands up for themselves and knocks out a bully should never be suspended, maybe they should get an award.  What is wrong with rewarding good and punishing the bad?

We have a curriculum in school that someone has decided what is best for our children, I'm OK with that as long as freedoms are protected and no-one is usurping my family values, the rest should be taught at home.  The kids can question them all they want and I'm OK with different perspectives and will even instruct my children on what those are.  But I'd prefer to protect my values than have my child subjected to some fundamentalist suicide bomber's or the gangbanger herion dealer down the street.  At least until my children have some idea of a "common sense" moral compass, hopefully developed before they are 18.

However, we don't teach our older children common sense, how to live within your means, how to balance a check book, real conflict resolution, with the last step being self defense. How to look out and protect weaker kids etc etc.  In many public shools, policy is "violence is never an acceptable solution".   I say garbage. Violence, in the only acceptable legal form, self defense, has an ABSOLUTE place in all our lives, hence the reason for the 2nd Amendment.  Otherwise we teach kids it's OK to be a victim, because others will protect you.

This kind of thinking is what leads to more victims.

Don't you think if we taught children how to handle bullies according to real life legally acceptable ways, there would be less bullies in the world?
If we teach all children to look out for the weak and those who cannot defend themselves, what bully would ever want  to bully when 4 or 5 weaker people stand together as a team?

I believe, because there is no true outlet for handling bullies in the school systems today, kids are resorting to desperate means such as shooting up their class mates rather than just boxing it out.

In my schools, grammer and highschool, we were allowed to box it out if we were evenly matched, no-one held a grudge, and then we became freinds instead of plotting against each other, or building bombs in our garages.   Some of my best friends now are people I've fought with as kids.  Testing each others limits is normal, especially for children.

CG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: What Bullies know about Bullying
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2009, 04:34:52 PM »
It is my contention that this "Zero Tolerance" policy is actually a veritable boon to programs, as it creates the conditions for getting kids labeled as having dysfunctional behavior, which in turn ultimately gets them recommended for programs.

Zero tolerance neither helps the victim, nor the bully. It crams kids into a very strict code of behavior, and those not fitting the norm stick out in ways that can get them into a pack of trouble, ofttimes not in keeping with the scale of the original "crime." It also leaves over-stressed administrators with the task of using their "discretion" in deeming said seriousness, and enables them to ship difficult kids out of district altogether too easily, in some cases even having them institutionalized against parental wishes. And so it starts.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
New Leadership Charter School (Springfield, MA)
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 12:56:05 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Anyone care to venture a guess as to WHO founded New Leadership Charter Public School in Springfield, Massachusetts?

    "New Leadership Charter Public School is a college preparatory school that emphasizes academic achievement, character development, leadership training and community service"[/list]

    Hyde School founded Springfield's New Leadership Charter School.

    From Joe Gauld's "article" (essay?) "Character Development: A School's Primary Task." in The Wall Street Journal (April, 1992):

      We at Hyde are now setting up Hyde public-school models, one of which is slated to open in September in Gardiner, Maine. Similar models are expected to open, probably in Indianapolis, IN, Winston-Salem, N.C., and Springfield, Mass. Each will require a commitment from student, parent and teacher alike to honor Hyde principles at home and at school.

      <...snip...>

      Hyde defines a basic family as at least "one committed adult and one growing child". We find a mentor for youngsters who want to join but lack a committed parent. Skeptics think most American parents won't accept such a challenge. But in
      Springfield, Massachusetts, the first city tested for interest in the public-school program, we had 650 preliminary family applications for 150 projected places.
      [/list]

      From one of Joe's articles in Education Week, titled "An Education: Just Do It" (October, 1992):

        Will Hyde's concept of education work outside the somewhat greenhouse conditions of a Maine boarding school? We'll soon find out: The first Hyde public school program opened last month in Gardiner, Me., a school system of 2,800 students. A Hyde public school-community model has just been approved for Washington; similar models in Indianapolis; Winston-Salem, N.C.; and Springfield, Mass., are now on the drawing boards.[/list]
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
        -------------- • -------------- • --------------

        Offline Ursus

        • Newbie
        • *
        • Posts: 8989
        • Karma: +3/-0
          • View Profile
        Re: New Leadership Charter School (Springfield, MA)
        « Reply #29 on: October 09, 2009, 01:12:01 AM »
        Joe Gauld tapped former Hyde School student Joanne Wingood Goubourn to head the job. She appears to have directed the Springfield School for at least 3 years.

        Here's her GuideStar profile on a General Information page for Hyde Leadership Public Charter School of Washington DC Inc (which she used to head prior to Hyde-Bronx):

        -------------- • -------------- • --------------

        Chief Executive

        Mrs. Joanne Wingood Goubourn

        Chief Executive Profile

        Mrs. Goubourn, Hyde Leadership's Head of School, is a 1975 graduate of the original Hyde School in Bath Maine, so she is a 30 year veteran of the Hyde process. She completed her ungraduate studies at Wellesley College in 1979 with a degree in Urban Studies,and quickly moved through the management ranks of the U.S. Postal Service. In 1988 she completed a Master's Degree in Human Reource Development at American International College in Springfield, MA and chose to return to the Hyde School in Bath, ME, as a Program Director and English Teacher. In 1993 Hyde chose Mrs. Goubourn to help found and become the Assistant Head of School at the new Hyde Leadership School in New Haven, CT, a school still in existence today. In 1998 she was again tapped to lead when she was offered and accepted the Head of School position at hte New Leadership Charter School in Springfield, MA. Under her lead the school grew from 90 students in 1998 to 250 students in 2001. Her love for and commitment to Hyde convinced her to accept her current position of Head of School position of the Hyde Leadership Public Charter School. She also began a Doctoral program at Howard University in Education Administration. Mrs. Goubourn believes deeply that American education needs what Hyde has to offer, and she plans to make this school a national model for excellence in public education.
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
        -------------- • -------------- • --------------