This forum, Now and then

[Anonymous]

Are you a troll :feedtrolls: :roflmao:

[Anonymous]

GUEST0 is a troll :jamin:

[Stripe]

Greg,

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and for the work you have done on this forum. And Ginger, too.  To both of you: your thoughtful questions and responses made the journey for me a positive experience.  Not necessarily an easy task by any means.  The challenges of confronting our experiences and our participation has made for some very interesting and thought provoking  discussions.  On a personal note, Greg, I've wondered where you have been of late.  I am sorry your daughter is not well and I hope that her health improves. While I never met you or Ginger personally, I appreciate all that you have done.
 :bump:

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

by Guest » Yesterday, 18:43

I'm not a Barker fan nor a Lybbi fan. This Stack Jones guy is an evil guy. He's worse than any of them.]

--

ha ha ha ha,

i say words, mere words. and use purposely use language i learned from the seed.

and i am somehow worse than all of them.

let's get a few things straight loser.

i never kidnapped anyone.
i never committed fraud on innocent children.
i never collected money from the state under the guise of medical treatment.
i never destroyed pertinent medical records, that by state and federal law must be kept for the life of the patient.
i never formed a cult that was aimed at mixing 9-16 year old children -- who never did drugs, with hardened criminals, who were court ordered into the program or face long jail sentences.
i wasn't a junkie or a thief.
i never raped a teenage girls. (and yes, even if those teenage girls gave it up to barker, it is STILL rape.)
i never formed a cult that ended up leading to multiple suicides.
i never formed a cult that lead to one of the incarcerated program victims, snapping and murdering their parents.
i never stole clothing or records from vulnerable seed victims.
i never chain smoked and drank coffee.
i was never convicted of armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon.
i never kept kids out of school for one year at a time.

but, at 14, i did REFUSE to comply with those assholes. i never gave in to them.
at 50 i now own and operate 2 private schools in japan, and expanding into other countries.
despite what other assholes here have to say, i worked at the public defenders office and juvenile courts. and damn well know there isn't a goddamn place on earth that models anything remotely like the seed, that will help a child. and judges today, are starting to get it.
my students are children, and i would never dream of putting one kid in harms way.
we teach disability kids.
while barker and libby ended up complete losers, castrated by the state they did all they could to suck free dollars from.

need i go on and on.

you blind fucking losers.

i bet the entire bunch of you - combined don't have the education, business, or life experience that i have. period!!!

that is why i am the ONLY person here that posts his name, address and phone number.

the only one that isn't anonymous is me.

because you are all drowned little wet rats. and that guy greg proved he is a fucking rotten little skeert women. he doesn't deserve to raise a child, because he is the type of asshole that doesn't take a stand.

he's what the bible calls a reed blowing in the wind.

me?

i've been on tv, radio, magazines, newspapers and did it all after i was a kidnapped and ransomed for kid. state dollars for flesh to fill a metal chair.

i continue to be in the media's eye.

and now i'm writing the seed story for rolling stone's magazine.

i'd love to get a call from barker's attorney. or libbies castrated and pathetic husband that posts here. and too afraid to mention his name.

he heard me loud and clear, i'd shove a crowbar up her ass and leave her permanently disabled.

i am proud to leave that image lingering in his mind.

i am proud to leave the image of ME holding barker's severed head in my hands - and his wife shelly had to visualize that.

i am proud that barker had to visualize his wife hanging from the rafters with both breasts cut off, and the words, the seed indeed carved into her chest.

that fucker was afraid back then, and he's afraid now.

he made fake bomb threats back in the blimp hangar, and tropical park days for false press.

he accused the mayor of miami of being hitler.

who was the hitler?

i'd really wish somebody would kill the fucker. actually, murder the bastard, in the same fashion as the murder scene in the movie martyrs. blow his fucking head off.

if you don't like my words.

ok.

actually, my words are meant to NOT be liked.

my words are chosen to entice, and to solicit anger, and fear.

and it obviously has, because barker, and libby searched out my sister cindy's name and posted it on this site.

we are not scared little kids nurse ratchett.

we'll take you on anyplace, any time.

i came here to stir up shit, and to let them know, how much they are hated by the masses, and what big zeros they all are, after the body count is all over.

--

i call libby and harass her and i love it!!!

it was great to see her answering machine voice changed from her to her husbands.

it was great to forward to her email many posts of the absolute hatred that is the SEED of their life's disdain.

--

get up off your asses folks and read between the lines.

i came to entice, and i have been successful.

libby the liar and her hardy har har husband...

they don't even have the balls to tell me not to call, and until they do, i am not violating any laws. and i still wouldn't be violating any laws until they got a court order. and they would have to serve me, and that would be hard to do, since i am in japan.

so therefore, i will continue to call, and ask for my medical records. which the completely ignore. because they know they are fuck ups that don't have them and didn't comply with state and federal laws.

i don't give a shit if she was 98.

i'd do the same if i took the time to find barker's phone.

--

if i saw barker in person, no doubt, it would not matter to me, if i spent a few days in jail and had to explain it to the bar, i'd knock him fucking out -- absolutely. and if i broke the fucker's hip as he crashed to the ground, i'd face the civil consequences.

because i am a man. a man that is not afraid to stand up and be counted.

you fucking lame brains don't count for shit.

you all are very pathetic and scared little animals.

you never found anything in life that was worth living or dying for.

you still live in broward, or dade.

and can't speak a second or third language.

--

the ONLY thing i miss from south florida is mario the baker, and char-hut!!!

you can keep that shit weather, and that ignorant city of hatred.

because as soon as i sign off here. i turn this shit right off.

you turds carry my words around like its some load of shit packed in your backpack.

to me -- i purge and tell it like it is.

and if nobody was looking, i'd grab a stick and poke it in barker's eye. i'd roll his head around in the dirt and i'd let the taliban use it as a soccer ball.

everything, everything barker stands for is pure evil.

--

you people now that are 50 or older, you forget so quickly how that fucking turd was having sex with minor girls.

and you dare say that asshole is better than me?

you all go and read this...

http://stackjones.com/web%20photos/Lady ... ash=false&

and tell me that barker every did anything on that level for kids.

i've had hundreds and hundreds of mothers write me and tell me they love my work.

my work is pure in heart.

and my life has always been full - post seed.

how 'bout you?

what fucking good have you done?

besides say welcome to walmart.

[GregFL]

Greg,

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and for the work you have done on this forum. And Ginger, too.  To both of you: your thoughtful questions and responses made the journey for me a positive experience.  Not necessarily an easy task by any means.  The challenges of confronting our experiences and our participation has made for some very interesting and thought provoking  discussions.  On a personal note, Greg, I've wondered where you have been of late.  I am sorry your daughter is not well and I hope that her health improves. While I never met you or Ginger personally, I appreciate all that you have done.
 :bump:

Thanks.

Thanks my friend.  The respect flows both ways.  

Stripe, now that so much time has passed I can tell you this.  You were the type of person I had in mind when the forum was started.    Watching you go thru the process of dealing with your past  and coming out the other side was immensely gratifying for me.  Thank you for your participation during the good times.

[Anonymous]

Likes the lady bug story, wishing all could save the others that are still suffering from those  horrible places, there must be thousands of kids hurting out there millions.How very sad.

[psy]

At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.

Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

[try another castle]

At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.

Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personallyfind irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

this^

You're going to have to deal with asshats regardless. I'd rather not have someone up top deciding for themselves who is an asshat and who is not.

[Cyndeelouwho]

The seed discussion forum is for survivors of the Seed and Seed copycat programs and for other interested parties. The moderator and owner of this forum accept no responsiblity for content. This is a first admendment based open discussion and all opinions and topics are welcome. By posting or reading, you agree to these terms.

Just sayin

[Anonymous]

hello cyndeelou, nice to see you  :twofinger:

[Anonymous]

this guy Greg altered people's posts... "deleted names" "no personal attacks were allowed" -- interesting as now hes calling stack femboy and worse ad hominems

good thing hes not the moderator!!  :twofinger:  :twofinger:  :twofinger:

This is Gregfl.  I originated this forum at the suggestion of Ginger many years ago.

I just am coming in to make a few comments.


This forum was conceptualized as a place where people could come and discuss this topic, this very divisional and controversial topic, in a manner that they could be heard.  It didn't matter what side of the issue they took, I provided a forum where people could discuss this topic safely. I deleted names, except the staff who allowed themselves to be named in the national media, and protected everyone else's identity the best I could due to the nature of the topic.   To this end no personal attacks were allowed  and for many years the forum thrived. We had escapees, staffers, graduates, and Barker insiders calling each other, talking out issues, and many people found peace and  understanding on these pages.

Several years ago my daughter became seriously ill and I abandoned moderating this forum.  For most the forum had kind of run its course and we old farts had resolved our issues and most of us had even come to respect each other no matter what side of the issue we were on. Most of us had  come to understand we were just children when this thing called the seed happened to us and that we no longer had to view it from the eyes of a child.  I had hoped the forum would continue without me  as kind of a resource for people who hadn't been fortunate enough to be around this forum in its formative and productive years. (to anyone concerned, my daughter is doing fantastic now!)

Unfortunately the forum is now being trolled by people with an agenda.  When a forum gets trolled, the 'goodness' gets lost, shouted down and buried under muck.  In this case, the debates, the resolution, the intellectual conversations, the ability to see where and why others think as they do, and  the coming to terms for many people is lost under juvenile anger, countless logins, profanity and nonsense.  

I offer no apology for this because I am not responsible for it.  If I still was, I wouldn't let it happen.   To anyone reading, please look at the prior condition of this forum as kind of a seperate discussion and I think you will find it enlightening and usefull.  To do this, you have to wade thru a proverbial bucket of crap for a glass of water, but the good things are still here.

If I was able I would shut it down and just archive the old pages.  I offer my support for those being attacked now and my assurance that if I was still moderating this forum it would not be occuring.

To all my friends still posting or reading, I wish you all well.

[GregFL]

At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.

Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

At least one difference between you and I is that I believe a level playing field and a fair and open moderated discussion allows the truth to bubble to the surface.

Fair and open is subjective.  Fox calls itself "fair and balanced". It does not make it so.  The only truly fair discussion is one where nobody has any power over the words of others.  Sure it results in a fair bit of chaos, but there is also the guarantee that it is fair.  You might have been a benevolent monarch, but such a system is only as good as it's leader... and people shouldn't have to trust in a leader...  they should be able to trust in a system.  As it is a system exists that does not rely on a single person's benevolence or fairness where in a sense nobody and everybody is in charge.  Everybody has a fair shake at the discussion table including the "trolls" which is really a term for that which you personally find irrelevant, distracting, or otherwise offensive..

I disagree.  IT puts the power in the hands of the person with the least amount of integrity.  It revolts and turns away good people who would otherwise contribute.  It invites people with little to contribute to disrupt the flow of information, and it allows people with nothing more to do to flood and bury topics that they don't like and to create multiple logins to agree with themselves and to gang up on the opposition.

A fairly (non fox news) moderated discussion omits this type of environment and just allows people to stay on topic and to equally debate an issue.  If the moderator isn't fair, it reverts back to the situation you have here where people shout down the opposition.  This is why debates are moderated. In its persent form, this forum  is not a conversation, it is a method of propping up internet bullies.  

We will agree to disagree on this point, just as Ginger and I have for years and years.

That's okay Pysc, It just doesn't comport with my vision of a an interesting conversation.  I am out of here and wish everyone the best.

[GregFL]

this guy Greg altered people's posts... "deleted names" "no personal attacks were allowed" --

That is true.  Regardless of which side of an issue you were on, you were not allowed to shout obscenities at anyone, or I would delete them.  You were not allowed to "out" people who were in the seed, as it could impact their jobs and their lives in general.  As far as altering posts, I never deleted anyone's opinion and I had trolls that hated me, just as now, except the difference was back then they were on both sides of the issue. The original intent of THIS (not all formits forums) was to engage people in an adult conversation and to attract everyone to the conversation.  We did it, and it was a huge success in my opinion.    For those that wanted to troll, well there was always the Straight forum which allowed it.

Obviously those in charge now have a different vision, and to me the result  speaks for itself.  You may disagree, and that is fine. Have at it.  I won't waste any more time dealing with mentally unstable people who post violent fantasies and attack people's families when they disagree with what they say.

Good day.

[Antigen]

I'm not caught up on this thread yet, but I have to stop and throw this in.

Thanks for what you wrote.  My only wish is that the prior forum could have been archived.  I was repeatedly told by people that weren't even in the Seed  that they found it the most usefull forum on fornits.  The forum reached almost everyone who was in the Seed, either by participation, lurking, or by hearing about it.  It has gone from being a shining example of what intelligent conversation can accomplish to an example of how a few idiots can ruin a discussion.

The whole history is still there minus that 4 month gap when we lost a server to hackers. This was, as many will recall, directly after having been forced by legal threat from one server to another till finally finding refuge with the same hackers who beat Scientology senseless there fore awhile. While that whole battle certainly did put a crimp in normal hosting functionality it also put us into contact with some of the best free speech legal talent and into the limelight of some fairly influential circles in law and info wars.

The industry don't play nice. Once in awhile, though nowhere near as often as one might expect, along comes someone who's about as ruthless from the other side. Not everyone who comes around these forums is looking for "help" in the way you use the term. This is reality. Some people are still really angry. These folks seem to have just recently reopened this spooky little chapter of their lives.

Right now former staff of one of the more physically brutal programs in Mo are pursuing legal action against the director, Willa Bundy. It would be easy to put this shit way in the past if it would just stay there. But it doesn't. And, like it or not, some of our wonderful Seed family that we didn't ask for were among the most highly celebrated luminaries in what has come to be known the Teen Hurt industry, the Troubled Parent Industry and the ToughLove Hategroup. Don't you think their fans deserve to know all the details of their hero's lives?

This is still a shining example of what intelligent conversation can accomplish. If the current tone of conversation is not your flavor then pass it by.

BTW, I'm also glad your daughter is doing so well. My niece seems to be coming around pretty well too.

[Anonymous]

Control  Control Control , is this all anyone wants to do??