John D. Reuben and SavingTeens.org

[Whooter]

Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.

Thanks for agreeing with me guest!

Exactly!!  I think you see what I am saying.  Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says.  But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...

See this:

John Rueben "is not" thewho.  So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!

So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may.  The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.  

This is a good discussion.  I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.

[Anonymous]

John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs.  He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.

John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18.  Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.

Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.

John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.

Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.

John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today.  Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into.  Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death.  John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.

Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.

R.I.P., Mike.  Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally.   :peace:

Please add your thoughts to this topic.

 :bump:

[Whooter]

Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.

Thanks for agreeing with me guest!

Exactly!!  I think you see what I am saying.  Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says.  But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...

See this:

John Rueben "is not" thewho.  So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!

So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may.  The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.  

This is a good discussion.  I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.

So we are back to this?  I do see what you are saying, but good luck, Ajax and Bruce do not discuss anything they just attack, derail or ignore questions and discussions.  Dont even bother and dont start that here.

[Anonymous]

John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs.  He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.

John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18.  Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.

Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.

John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.

Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.

John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today.  Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into.  Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death.  John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.

Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.

R.I.P., Mike.  Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally.   :peace:

Please add your thoughts to this topic.

 :bump:

[Whooter]

Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.

Thanks for agreeing with me guest!

Exactly!!  I think you see what I am saying.  Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says.  But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...

See this:

John Rueben "is not" thewho.  So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!

So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may.  The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.  

This is a good discussion.  I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.

My vote is for each person to provide proof of what they state.  whether that be positive or negative.  That seems to be more fair then having one side being the one with the burden of proof.

[Whooter]

The burden of proof is on the one making the statement period.

[Troll Control]

Exactly correct.  So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben.  Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.

[Whooter]

Exactly correct.  So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben.  Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.

Exactly and since we dont have any proof we just dont know who TheWho is or how effective programs are.

[Whooter]

Exactly correct.  So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben.  Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.

Exactly and since we dont have any proof we just dont know who TheWho is or how effective programs are.

This is great we are getting right down to the foundation.  It seems we agree on a very fundamental level.

[Anonymous]

You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.

It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit.  He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system.  Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment:  He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance.  In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.

Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail".  Michael died, despite the programs.  It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool.  Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering.  For that he should be held accountable.

[Whooter]

You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.

It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit.  He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system.  Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment:  He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance.  In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.

Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail".  Michael died, despite the programs.  It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool.  Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering.  For that he should be held accountable.

I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death.  How were they connected?  Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?

[Anonymous]

You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.

It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit.  He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system.  Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment:  He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance.  In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.

Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail".  Michael died, despite the programs.  It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool.  Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering.  For that he should be held accountable.

I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death.  How were they connected?  Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?

RIP - Michael Joshua Reuben, age 22.

[Whooter]

If there was any real evidence that programs were damaging  then it would be presented.  But since evidence is lacking many here work to exploit events that are unrelated to the programs themselves.  This lack of evidence actually strengthens the common belief that programs are extremely effective otherwise there would not be a need to present events which occurred years after graduation.

[Anonymous]

I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death.  How were they connected?  Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?

The program the young man attended was ASR.  The program is sold to parents as the only option to keep their children from ending up "dead or in jail".  One would hope the treatment would have a lasting effect, but alas, there is no proof programs have any long-term beneficial value or any worth at all.   Call ASR or any other program for information on the number of post-treatment suicides and criminal convictions, they'll be happy to share their failure rates with you.

Reuben placed his son in ASR to keep him from dying or ending up in jail.  The program failed and Michael died of an overdose.

[Whooter]

Imagine if we used this same rationale at our own highschool if a classmate died?

Jim Remnal died last Thursday from an overdose in his home.  He attended Ridgemont high school later attended Yale University and completed his post graduate doctorate work at Harvard.  He started up and ran his own research firm.

Conclusion: Ridgemont high school must have been too tough on him, wasnt very effective and let him down!!  Ha,Ha,Ha