HLA Facebook Groups

[Inculcated]

Lacey and her mom have a compelling story to tell.  
It's a fascinating story about greed, corruption, money, power and the railroading of a teenaged girl for fun and profit.  Trust me, you'll want to hear the whole story and to look over the legal documents surrounding it.

You will see how the confluence of greed, money and power damaged Lacey's life.  She was held against her will and against the wishes of her parents by HLA and Len used his money and power (and Q&Q) to influence legal custody of this poor girl and to extract a hundred thousand dollars or so from her parents.  

That will be illuminating.^
To Lacey’s mom:
I think the perspective of a parent’s experiences with the TTI is an important aspect of the discussion.
I’m sorry for all your family has been through. I applaud your strength for speaking out. I look forward to your insights.

[lacey'smom]

First, did you (lacey's mom) ever graduate from high school? your ramblings are incoherent. please look over them and make them make sense. good grammar and spelling is unnecessary, it's the internet. but clean that shit shit up, it's digusting how many commas you put in. You took five sentences and merged them into one, sometimes skipping from one subject to another within the same sentence.
hmmm - so I will just write, stream of thought in some answers here - I don't know how to do the whole quote reply thing yet, so this will have to do...
answers - to your considerate question...no, not only did I NOT go to high school, I had NO benefit of ANY schooling...my own story, too long for this forum..it did not prevent me from "faking it till I could make it"(obviously, "making it" is always in the eye of the beholder), working full-time at 14 -going to night school for years to try and get the society desired holy pieces of paper -  owning my own boutique in Topanga Canyon at 17 and transitioning to budget analyst/software support (1979 - 1984) hardware installer and moving up to being the most senior analyst, in the company I was with, amongst a group of all men, degreed engineers, by 1984, before I left to solely focus on raising my family....I respect education and tried to focus my kids on same, but in my business, the ole saying was, "those that can't do, teach" - I allowed my self NO excuses, I was going to be self-sufficient...sorry for not "communicating to your standards, but forgiving the excuse of no formal education, this subject matter is still quite raw for me...this is the 8th anniversary of putting my child, Aug 15th, 2001, on a plane to "trust other people in another part of the country to "help" my child, where I would not have "control"...having lost Lacey's younger brother when he was 14 years old, due to high-risk behavior, I was an overprotective, at home, single-parent mom, I leveraged everything I had at my disposal to solely focus on raising my children....again, sorry for the challenging writing...

second, theres more to this story than what your're telling us.  (geee, you think?  trying to share that which might be helpful, while protecting Lacey, is challenging......

I'll follow - up on your other questions in another post...so as to make these not too long....

[lacey'smom]

"third, I'm well aware of the problems within public schools. WHY NOT JUST MOVE TO ANOTHER DISTRICT? or send her to a private school as soon as she started fucking up? or send her out of the country to a school in canada, switzerland, or england? You obviously had plenty of money to lawyers and HLA. why not spend that money on a quality traditional private boarding school? heck, that's half the reason boarding schools exist! even if she was court ordered to NOT be allowed those options, are you going to let that get in the way? WTF did lacey do that was so bad she sentenced to a jail term? go to another state, and dont come back. they cant touch you. why would you even want to remain in a state that did such things to your family. you obviously had enough money for HLA, you have enough to move. not moving to keep your daughter out of jail is just plain selfish. "
To answer...when we lost Lacey's bother, July 4th,1983, the death affected both parents, extremely....the marriage had been very bad and destructive and now, with no children, I should have left then, but if I had, no Lacey...the desperate actions taken(a prolonged unbelievable confession by Lacey's father aug 23rd, 1983) to keep me in the that marriage, arguably, left me "not of sound mind"?  The promise, to make up for the betrayals, was for me to have the family I always wanted...should I have run for my life?  hindsight is 20/20 and of course, I should have, but I didn't..I had Lacey's older brother July 31st 1984 and by 12/85 filed for divorce for the sole purpose to gett he family help...no one would listen..we had a brief week reconciliation at the Disneyland hotel, 1/86......hence Lacey....by May the drinking and abuse was life threatening, I allowed the Sptember 28th court date to stand and made plans to get out with a two yr old and 9 months pregnant...Lacey's father is close to 20 years older, many degrees more educated, and held all the assets and skeet guns in his possession....excuses? I don't know anymore, I felt I was running for my life and by this time, I was so emotionally beaten down, I fought for what was most important to me, my children - he got the assets, I got the children.....I thought it would stop there...move? transfer to private? all the suggesstions were perfectly reasonable, in a reasonable situation, this was not..the clever legal actions I had to take, to get Lacey out of our states clutches, was the best I could pull off...it was a very complicated school/court/therapeutic fiasco, but I did manage to get her "out of harm's way" to Utah..obviously, much more complicated, but that is enough here......

[Anonymous]

all i see here is attempted justification for complete and utter stupidity. NO education? really? why are you raising kids then? MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO! now your daughter IS FOLLOWING THE SAME EXACT PATH AS YOU!!!!!!!! (with just a few extra years of high school and a year of college under her belt....these days thats the exact equivalent of the education you went through). Falling for a man twenty years older than you? on completely different financial ground? WOW! THATS SMAAART!!! GOLDDIGGER!

Considering you had zero education, it's now absolutely clear to me how you were hoodwinked by the legal system. The System is designed to keep stupid people down and profit off them while allowing the smart ones through. From what it sounds like, you were scammed, and were too stupid to figure out a way out properly like normal people do. NO! you DID have a CHOICE. you made the WRONG CHOICES because you are TOO FUCKING STUPID to figure out the basics of life and also the legal system. you got the kids and husband got the assests? either you were too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense, or you were just too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense. PERIOD. now your daughter, "lacey", is following in your footsteps, raising a fucked up family way too early, not getting an education, and getting hoodwinked by the system (her mortgage, cough cough!).

I have come to the conclusion that lacey's mom has nothing of value to say. she's from the bottommest rung of society - the uneducated, illiterate baffoons who start families when they are teens. she cant even express the simple ideas she has without sounding like a rambling drunk, even when she tries her hardest not to. YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME!!!!!!!! HLA was just one of a long line of scams lacey's mom fell for, and i dont blame her. she's the dumbest of the dumb, the bottom of the bottom, among the most brainless of the brainless.

i'm not a pro-hla troll. I hate the place as much as anyone else. I just cant stand illiterate uneducated fools who blame other people for their own problems.
I especially cant stand fools who drop out of high school or college and start families as teenagers, expecting their husbands to pick up all the intellectual slack, and thinking life will be "just dandy!" when they have kids. yea. right.

you dug your own hole lacey's mom. deal with the consequences. dont come here with your drunken anti-system tirades, you dont even have the slightest clue how the system works. You just let one person after the other tell you things, and you believed everyone. HLA is just one of a long line of scams you were fucked on....PURELY BECAUSE YOU ARE DUMB AS A ROCK. dont bother coming back here untill you get your fucking diploma.

[Anonymous]

you are dumb as a ROCK.

haha. clever....nice pun!!

[Anonymous]

all i see here is attempted justification for complete and utter stupidity. NO education? really? why are you raising kids then? MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO! now your daughter IS FOLLOWING THE SAME EXACT PATH AS YOU!!!!!!!! (with just a few extra years of high school and a year of college under her belt....these days thats the exact equivalent of the education you went through). Falling for a man twenty years older than you? on completely different financial ground? WOW! THATS SMAAART!!! GOLDDIGGER!

Considering you had zero education, it's now absolutely clear to me how you were hoodwinked by the legal system. The System is designed to keep stupid people down and profit off them while allowing the smart ones through. From what it sounds like, you were scammed, and were too stupid to figure out a way out properly like normal people do. NO! you DID have a CHOICE. you made the WRONG CHOICES because you are TOO FUCKING STUPID to figure out the basics of life and also the legal system. you got the kids and husband got the assests? either you were too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense, or you were just too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense. PERIOD. now your daughter, "lacey", is following in your footsteps, raising a fucked up family way too early, not getting an education, and getting hoodwinked by the system (her mortgage, cough cough!).

I have come to the conclusion that lacey's mom has nothing of value to say. she's from the bottommest rung of society - the uneducated, illiterate baffoons who start families when they are teens. she cant even express the simple ideas she has without sounding like a rambling drunk, even when she tries her hardest not to. YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME!!!!!!!! HLA was just one of a long line of scams lacey's mom fell for, and i dont blame her. she's the dumbest of the dumb, the bottom of the bottom, among the most brainless of the brainless.

i'm not a pro-hla troll. I hate the place as much as anyone else. I just cant stand illiterate uneducated fools who blame other people for their own problems.
I especially cant stand fools who drop out of high school or college and start families as teenagers, expecting their husbands to pick up all the intellectual slack, and thinking life will be "just dandy!" when they have kids. yea. right.

you dug your own hole lacey's mom. deal with the consequences. dont come here with your drunken anti-system tirades, you dont even have the slightest clue how the system works. You just let one person after the other tell you things, and you believed everyone. HLA is just one of a long line of scams you were fucked on....PURELY BECAUSE YOU ARE DUMB AS A ROCK. dont bother coming back here untill you get your fucking diploma.

         
                   I love stupid people with dumb educations like yourself, that think they are so educated as to tell anyone else to come back when they get a diploma, lol, you should come back when you go back to grammar school.   So educated you are---- that's, Smart, Gold Digger, bottommost, buffoons, I,  don't , I'm, until, Lacey, all spelled wrong you moron. Thinks you should lay off the sauce yourself when posting. I see education has done marvels for you. :rofl:  :roflmao:  :moon:

[TheWho]

all i see here is attempted justification for complete and utter stupidity. NO education? really? why are you raising kids then? MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO! now your daughter IS FOLLOWING THE SAME EXACT PATH AS YOU!!!!!!!! (with just a few extra years of high school and a year of college under her belt....these days thats the exact equivalent of the education you went through). Falling for a man twenty years older than you? on completely different financial ground? WOW! THATS SMAAART!!! GOLDDIGGER!

Considering you had zero education, it's now absolutely clear to me how you were hoodwinked by the legal system. The System is designed to keep stupid people down and profit off them while allowing the smart ones through. From what it sounds like, you were scammed, and were too stupid to figure out a way out properly like normal people do. NO! you DID have a CHOICE. you made the WRONG CHOICES because you are TOO FUCKING STUPID to figure out the basics of life and also the legal system. you got the kids and husband got the assests? either you were too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense, or you were just too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense. PERIOD. now your daughter, "lacey", is following in your footsteps, raising a fucked up family way too early, not getting an education, and getting hoodwinked by the system (her mortgage, cough cough!).

I have come to the conclusion that lacey's mom has nothing of value to say. she's from the bottommest rung of society - the uneducated, illiterate baffoons who start families when they are teens. she cant even express the simple ideas she has without sounding like a rambling drunk, even when she tries her hardest not to. YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME!!!!!!!! HLA was just one of a long line of scams lacey's mom fell for, and i dont blame her. she's the dumbest of the dumb, the bottom of the bottom, among the most brainless of the brainless.

i'm not a pro-hla troll. I hate the place as much as anyone else. I just cant stand illiterate uneducated fools who blame other people for their own problems.
I especially cant stand fools who drop out of high school or college and start families as teenagers, expecting their husbands to pick up all the intellectual slack, and thinking life will be "just dandy!" when they have kids. yea. right.

you dug your own hole lacey's mom. deal with the consequences. dont come here with your drunken anti-system tirades, you dont even have the slightest clue how the system works. You just let one person after the other tell you things, and you believed everyone. HLA is just one of a long line of scams you were fucked on....PURELY BECAUSE YOU ARE DUMB AS A ROCK. dont bother coming back here untill you get your fucking diploma.

Typically the more educated a person is the more open they are to the differences and variations from person to person.  Being a good person, compassionate parent is independent of education.  Laceys mom indicated that she worked her way up through the system on her own, which is a lot tougher than cruising thru high school and college, I give her credit.

You on the other hand may have graduated from high school or even college but it is obvious that you slept thru most of it by the way you express yourself in writing.  You have been poorly educated yourself so I wouldn’t point fingers.  I highlighted your references to education and intelligence (in your above post, not including your unlimited use of profanity) which seems to be a sore spot with you and you seem to struggle with yourself.  If you compare how laceys mother communicated her thoughts with how you communicated yours she shows a much superior understanding of the language and more compassion towards others.

Try to be more open minded with other people and the paths they have taken.  We are all different and have had different obstacles in out lives.

[Anonymous]

all i see here is attempted justification for complete and utter stupidity. NO education? really? why are you raising kids then? MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO! now your daughter IS FOLLOWING THE SAME EXACT PATH AS YOU!!!!!!!! (with just a few extra years of high school and a year of college under her belt....these days thats the exact equivalent of the education you went through). Falling for a man twenty years older than you? on completely different financial ground? WOW! THATS SMAAART!!! GOLDDIGGER!

Considering you had zero education, it's now absolutely clear to me how you were hoodwinked by the legal system. The System is designed to keep stupid people down and profit off them while allowing the smart ones through. From what it sounds like, you were scammed, and were too stupid to figure out a way out properly like normal people do. NO! you DID have a CHOICE. you made the WRONG CHOICES because you are TOO FUCKING STUPID to figure out the basics of life and also the legal system. you got the kids and husband got the assests? either you were too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense, or you were just too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense. PERIOD. now your daughter, "lacey", is following in your footsteps, raising a fucked up family way too early, not getting an education, and getting hoodwinked by the system (her mortgage, cough cough!).

I have come to the conclusion that lacey's mom has nothing of value to say. she's from the bottommest rung of society - the uneducated, illiterate baffoons who start families when they are teens. she cant even express the simple ideas she has without sounding like a rambling drunk, even when she tries her hardest not to. YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME!!!!!!!! HLA was just one of a long line of scams lacey's mom fell for, and i dont blame her. she's the dumbest of the dumb, the bottom of the bottom, among the most brainless of the brainless.

i'm not a pro-hla troll. I hate the place as much as anyone else. I just cant stand illiterate uneducated fools who blame other people for their own problems.
I especially cant stand fools who drop out of high school or college and start families as teenagers, expecting their husbands to pick up all the intellectual slack, and thinking life will be "just dandy!" when they have kids. yea. right.

you dug your own hole lacey's mom. deal with the consequences. dont come here with your drunken anti-system tirades, you dont even have the slightest clue how the system works. You just let one person after the other tell you things, and you believed everyone. HLA is just one of a long line of scams you were fucked on....PURELY BECAUSE YOU ARE DUMB AS A ROCK. dont bother coming back here untill you get your fucking diploma.

Typically the more educated a person is the more open they are to the differences and variations from person to person.  Being a good person, compassionate parent is independent of education.  Laceys mom indicated that she worked her way up through the system on her own, which is a lot tougher than cruising thru high school and college, I give her credit.

You on the other hand may have graduated from high school or even college but it is obvious that you slept thru most of it by the way you express yourself in writing.  You have been poorly educated yourself so I wouldn’t point fingers.  I highlighted your references to education and intelligence (in your above post, not including your unlimited use of profanity) which seems to be a sore spot with you and you seem to struggle with yourself.  If you compare how laceys mother communicated her thoughts with how you communicated yours she shows a much superior understanding of the language and more compassion towards others.

Try to be more open minded with other people and the paths they have taken.  We are all different and have had different obstacles in out lives.

     Thank you guest. very well written, Peace! :peace:  :flip:  :rose:

[Troll Control]

the guest you are congratulating is none other than thewho, who obviously doesn't practice what he preaches.  if the post were about lacey instead of her mom (program parent) thewho would have laid into lacey as well, like he does with all abuse survivors.  "first, blame the child."

[lacey'smom]

First off, I was 30 when pregnant with Lacey.  Hardly a pregnant teen.  If I wanted the money, I'd have stayed in that hell, let the live-in housekeeper raise the kids, gone on all the corporate jaunts and be the cute little "trophy wife" with the two beautiful children.  I had it made and to stay in the style to which I was acustomed, was an option and a hard one to give up.  I could have turned a "blind eye" to betrayals and the definate coming damage to the children, to  protect my "comfortable" life.  I enjoyed traveling first class around the world and struggled incredibly with my condition at the time, would I be the best person for the kids to be with?  Of course I debated seriously with what was the better of obviously, two evils.  At 53, I have broad shoulders.  You have incredible anger and to the end of working that out, if you need to rant at me, oh well.  As for being a drunk, again, as I know I have said this before, I started in Al-Anon in 1984.  I didn't dink through either of my pregnancies, but the moment the children were born and the in house nurse and housekeeper were there to "cover" things, I drank heavily.  I did not make the decision to seperate drinking.  I seperated 9/23/86 - court was 9/28 - moved to a much downsized lifestyle and was in the hospital to have my child by c-sect a few days later...with both kids, I was very sick afterwards. I do not need anyone's sympathy.   I do appreciate the empathy shown by some, but after 53 years of a very hard life, I take responsibility for my part in whatever bad choices I made.  As of April 28th 1989, I have been sober.  It took many 24 hour chips for me to get sober, starting in 1987...am I a drunk? once a pickle, I say, always a pickle...that one, you never get to undo..Lacey spent all her young life going to AA mtgs...
I would put Lacey's elementary education and life experience up against your ignorant world view, anyday!  I may not be the best typest/speller/grammer person, but I have learned alot about mean-spirited people.  One of the issues was, in middle school when all the IEP crap started, the "testing" began.  She tested out at a college level of intellectual understanding of ideas.  Coming from a great-grandmother, who was an university trained opera singer, and coming from a long line of graduate level educated family, except me, it was not a suprise to me, her level of development.  You are right, she and I do have alot in common.  The STUPID? simple belief? hope? that people, for no reason, would hurt you.  I have never been able to proccess that and still don't.  After all the hurt and violation, I claim the right, to trust. but verify.  Lacey is a great mother and I don't know how old you are, but when my grandson goes off to college, she and her husband will be young enough to go travel the world and enjoy life.  I am proud of her and have great respect for the responsibility she has shown towards the challenges come her way.  She has "posted" to be accountable and your slander of her good life is beneath you.  I'm not sure how much my sharing is helping Lacey.  I will check with her, if I should write anything more....

[Lacey]

all i see here is attempted justification for complete and utter stupidity. NO education? really? why are you raising kids then? MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO! now your daughter IS FOLLOWING THE SAME EXACT PATH AS YOU!!!!!!!! (with just a few extra years of high school and a year of college under her belt....these days thats the exact equivalent of the education you went through). Falling for a man twenty years older than you? on completely different financial ground? WOW! THATS SMAAART!!! GOLDDIGGER!

Considering you had zero education, it's now absolutely clear to me how you were hoodwinked by the legal system. The System is designed to keep stupid people down and profit off them while allowing the smart ones through. From what it sounds like, you were scammed, and were too stupid to figure out a way out properly like normal people do. NO! you DID have a CHOICE. you made the WRONG CHOICES because you are TOO FUCKING STUPID to figure out the basics of life and also the legal system. you got the kids and husband got the assests? either you were too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense, or you were just too fucking stupid to put up a proper defense. PERIOD. now your daughter, "lacey", is following in your footsteps, raising a fucked up family way too early, not getting an education, and getting hoodwinked by the system (her mortgage, cough cough!).

I have come to the conclusion that lacey's mom has nothing of value to say. she's from the bottommest rung of society - the uneducated, illiterate baffoons who start families when they are teens. she cant even express the simple ideas she has without sounding like a rambling drunk, even when she tries her hardest not to. YOU HAVE ONLY YOURSELF TO BLAME!!!!!!!! HLA was just one of a long line of scams lacey's mom fell for, and i dont blame her. she's the dumbest of the dumb, the bottom of the bottom, among the most brainless of the brainless.

i'm not a pro-hla troll. I hate the place as much as anyone else. I just cant stand illiterate uneducated fools who blame other people for their own problems.
I especially cant stand fools who drop out of high school or college and start families as teenagers, expecting their husbands to pick up all the intellectual slack, and thinking life will be "just dandy!" when they have kids. yea. right.

you dug your own hole lacey's mom. deal with the consequences. dont come here with your drunken anti-system tirades, you dont even have the slightest clue how the system works. You just let one person after the other tell you things, and you believed everyone. HLA is just one of a long line of scams you were fucked on....PURELY BECAUSE YOU ARE DUMB AS A ROCK. dont bother coming back here untill you get your fucking diploma.

You know... I don't know why I'm being brought into this particular discussion. These personal attacks on me and my family are unwarrented and ugly. I don't know who you are or why you think you know so much about my life. My mortgage? I don't have one. My education level is irrelevant to the fight against hidden lake, the family I am raising is irrelevant to the fight against hidden lake, and so are these hypothetical truths you are purporting on this board. My husband has to pick up the intellectual slack? You've got to be joking.

Besides a one sentance post I made since my mother started posting here, I have left this board alone. This is an issue I cannot remain neutral on, and in most areas don't agree with her on. So instead of negatively impacting an important relationship, I said nothing. I don't know the truth of my history, or hers, so I can't make any statements about anything she's posted on. So I don't.

Redonkulus (or whatever), instead of attacking me or my life, which truly has absolutely nothing to do with you, why don't we try to stay on topic here. The fact that I'm a mother, or married, or didn't finish college, is truly none of your business. And you know what? Those things have no bearing on my posting here telling the truth about what happend to me at Hidden Lake. I can't imagine what you get out of attempting to rip me apart like that, especially when I see nothing you could possibly gain being a supporter of our cause here. So if that is in fact true, keep my personal life the fuck off the board. I didn't put it there, and if my mother did, talk to her about it. Maybe I will too.

I want no fucking part of this. Whoever you are, you are a sad, sad individual.

[Anonymous]

You tell them Lacey. Good for you, Peace to you and family! :peace:  :rose:

[TheWho]

Lacey and Lacey’s mom I truly believe you have found your way here to fornits for a reason and it is important that your story be told separately and in parallel.  I can tell from your voices that you are writing from the heart and are truthful with your words.  I think that you have both met enough people to know that we judge others first by instinct not open mindedness or compassion.  I wish this wasnt so but it seems to be a natural instinct.  What you may not know is that the harsher we judge ourselves, as individuals, the harsher we judge others and the faults we denounce in other people are usually our own negativities projected outward.  Judgment arises from the ego and its negative emotions can be toxic at times…..  your posting will continue to strike a nerve with all readers but don’t take the responding posting personally as it is merely an echo calling back to its originator.  Many are just beating themselves up not you.

I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  I know how personal these feelings are and how hard they are to share with others whom you have never met.  I look forward to reading more......

[RobertBruce]

Lacey the same sadistic chuckle heads who took got off on power trips over kids who had been locked up are just bitter now that it doesnt work anymore. You and I and everyone else who actually experienced that places knows what it was, knows what they did, knows why they did it, and knows the excuses they gave. Karma is a fickle friend and these kiddie abusers and their supporters are now getting exactly what they deserve. Pay them no mind, you know the truth, and things have a way of working themselves out in the end.

[psy]

bump.  pretty interesting thread.