Author Topic: HLA Facebook Groups  (Read 24880 times)

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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2009, 08:23:16 PM »
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I dont see myself as a defender of HLA. I see myself as a defender of the truth. I mentioned earlier that I wouldn’t send my kid there. You have been here long enough to know that the truth isn’t a big priority here as long as the program looks bad. Take the inspection results of HLA. The reports clearly stated that the report was a list of discrepancies found, but posters like Bruce and others would rather mislead readers into believing that HLA failed every aspect of the inspection. To me this deception does everyone harm. No one else spoke up except myself. There are posters who feel everyone that dies post program is a result of the program even if they have been out for years. The reason they post crap like this is not for accuracy but to discredit programs. But what they dont realize is that they are discrediting fornits. Virtually no poster would step up and challenge a piece of information that portrayed a program negatively no matter how far fetched the story or information is. Many would rather sit in silence hoping the misinformation will drive readers to believe the worst is true about programs and decide not to send their child based on this. But what people dont see is this backfires and makes the forum look foolish.

John shut the fuck up. Really. You aren't a defender of any truth. You ignore it when it's staring you right in the face time and time again. Ask me for examples dipshit, I'd be glad to embarrass you yet again. You are motivated soley by greed. You not would send your kid there, you did. Time will tell if he follows suit on your other kid and kills himself to get away from you. What you call discrepancies is merely your way of spinning the word "voilation". If as you claim fornits has no credibility, then why are we having such an effect? Why have there been so many attempts to silence us? Why have there been so many attempts at lawsuits and threats? And why now is the industry cowtowing and going so far as to invite Antigen to their annual kiddie abusing confrence?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2009, 08:35:34 PM »
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But continuously asking questions and challenging answers, playing the devils advocate the truth eventually comes to the surface as it did in the last discussion on licensure.

Really? You denied for years that HLA and ASR were even avoiding licensure. You refused to look at the facts, and then when it came to light that we were telling the truth, you suddenlly became rather quiet on the issue. So tell us all, what truth did you bring to the surface?

Quote
I do believe that programs prepare kids for what life has to throw at them post program. I dont believe all programs are good or bad nor are they all alike. Many posters here like to envision the worst of the programs and peddle the idea that all programs are the same and damaging which we all know isn’t true but is good for the agenda of discrediting any program that comes along in discussion

What are you basing this on John? What studies have recently emerged showcasing the effectiveness of this industry? Come on John, your pals have had 30+ years. What's the hold up? What life lessons are learned from the program John? What was I taught that my public school peers are so woefully ignorant of. Please enlighten all of us.

Quote
So Lacey, I think it is awful that that had to happen to you. I do not condone that treatment. I dont think all schools would do the same thing and I actually know they would not. I dont condone harassment. I do believethat if the rape occured post program you would be in a stronger position to deal with it then you were before hand.

Why? You think because her mind was already raped repeatedly it shouldnt be that big of a deal to have her body raped as well? You're disgusting John, hell exist for people like you.


Quote
But you cannot honestly believe that spreading or allowing the spread of misinformation is going to have any long term lasting effect against these places. They need to be exposed for what they are and back it all up with facts and data. If you try to fool people with lies then the whole site loses its credibility.


Then again, explain why we are having such an affect. If you're the one providing facts and we're spewing off misinformation then why are people listening to us while you simply get told to shut the fuck up? Why is licensure being forced on gulag after gulag? Why are so many of these places being sued or shutting down? Why John? Or is the other way around? You've been exposed as a liar on multiple occasions, we've been vindicated time and time again. Face facts Jon, we're telling the truth about how abusives these places you earn your living off of, and you just cant stand the idea of losing your bread and butter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2009, 08:41:00 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Lacey"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho, can you explain again to Lacey how she is better off now than before HLA?  Please tell this poor girl again how HLA helps sexual abuse victims get "tools" to deal with those issues.  It looks like she's not getting your point about how she would have been worse off without HLA.

Re-read the post, it was TheWho who was asking the guestion, not the other way around.  Also I think the original point was that a child would be better prepared for life, after their stay at HLA, not prepared for events that occured before they went to HLA.

I understand it can be confusing with all these guest posts, but it seems thewho agrees with many of you on this issue.

Before or after, Who.... How could a program that took that approach to sexual abuse victims possibly have any degree of compitency with preparing someone for a future sexual attack? By employing those very tactics? Which OBVIOUSLY do not work? I was further victimized by the very people my parents payed hundreds of thousands of dollars to, thinking they were helping. That is FACT.

I have read your posts for YEARS, Who. How can you possibly sit there and defend Hidden Lake Academy? The awful truth of this is that they are severely damaging children. I am not some sensationalist that wants to poke my nose in every argument that is started here on fornits, which is why in 3 or 4 years, I only have a small number of posts. You can come up with all the "facts" that you'd like, or attempt to discredit every HLA former student, parent or staff that speaks out against it. But please. Please tell me how a 15 year old girl sitting in a room with 17 strangers, in a state she's never been to, away from her parents for the first time in her life could possibly feel safe enough to recount intimate details of a rape, and have it be constructive in any way possible. They ask her was it dark out, was it light out. What color was the car she was in the back of. What words did he say to her while he was on top of her. Did he use a condom? Did it make her feel dirty? Did he use a chain or a rope to tie her leg to the front seat? As fucking uncomfortable as it is to read through those questions, imagine sitting in that fucking room having to answer them! And when I hesitated at all I was threatened with punishment and degraded as not wanting to "cooperate" with my "treatment". Please, Who. I am begging you. TELL ME HOW THIS COULD POSSIBLY BE WORTH DEFENDING. I am calling you out. I have never addressed you directly but you'd better step up and show your true colors here.

I have NOTHING to gain from speaking out against HLA. I live my life now, happily devoid of anything having to do with Hidden Lake. I chose not to be involved in the lawsuit. I never spent a penny that I'd want to recapture from that place. My ONLY reason for posting any of this is to get the truth about that place out. To save some other scared shitless little girl from ever having to endure all that I did while I was there.

What is it that YOU have to gain from defending a place like this?

I anxiously await your response.

I dont see myself as a defender of HLA.  I see myself as a defender of the truth.  I mentioned earlier that I wouldn’t send my kid there.  You have been here long enough to know that the truth isn’t a big priority here as long as the program looks bad.  Take the inspection results of HLA.  The reports clearly stated that the report was a list of discrepancies found, but posters like Bruce and others would rather mislead readers into believing that HLA failed every aspect of the inspection.  To me this deception does everyone harm.  No one else spoke up except myself.  There are posters who feel everyone that dies post program is a result of the program even if they have been out for years.  The reason they post crap like this is not for accuracy but to discredit programs.  But what they dont realize is that they are discrediting fornits.  Virtually no poster would step up and challenge a piece of information that portrayed a program negatively no matter how far fetched the story or information is.  Many would rather sit in silence hoping the misinformation will drive readers to believe the worst is true about programs and decide not to send their child based on this.  But what people dont see is this backfires and makes the forum look foolish.

But continuously asking questions and challenging answers, playing the devils advocate the truth eventually comes to the surface as it did in the last discussion on licensure.

I do believe that programs prepare kids for what life has to throw at them post program.  I dont believe all programs are good or bad nor are they all alike.  Many posters here like to envision the worst of the programs and peddle the idea that all programs are the same and damaging which we all know isn’t true but is good for the agenda of discrediting any program that comes along in discussion.

So Lacey, I think it is awful that that had to happen to you.  I do not condone that treatment.  I dont think all schools would do the same thing and I actually know they would not.  I dont condone harassment.  I do believethat if the rape occured post program you would be in a stronger position to deal with it then you were before hand.  

But you cannot honestly believe that spreading or allowing the spread of misinformation is going to have any long term lasting effect against these places.  They need to be exposed for what they are and back it all up with facts and data.  If you try to fool people with lies then the whole site loses its credibility.

^^Whooter^^ :guesswho:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Lacey

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2009, 08:58:04 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Lacey"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho, can you explain again to Lacey how she is better off now than before HLA?  Please tell this poor girl again how HLA helps sexual abuse victims get "tools" to deal with those issues.  It looks like she's not getting your point about how she would have been worse off without HLA.

Re-read the post, it was TheWho who was asking the guestion, not the other way around.  Also I think the original point was that a child would be better prepared for life, after their stay at HLA, not prepared for events that occured before they went to HLA.

I understand it can be confusing with all these guest posts, but it seems thewho agrees with many of you on this issue.

Before or after, Who.... How could a program that took that approach to sexual abuse victims possibly have any degree of compitency with preparing someone for a future sexual attack? By employing those very tactics? Which OBVIOUSLY do not work? I was further victimized by the very people my parents payed hundreds of thousands of dollars to, thinking they were helping. That is FACT.

I have read your posts for YEARS, Who. How can you possibly sit there and defend Hidden Lake Academy? The awful truth of this is that they are severely damaging children. I am not some sensationalist that wants to poke my nose in every argument that is started here on fornits, which is why in 3 or 4 years, I only have a small number of posts. You can come up with all the "facts" that you'd like, or attempt to discredit every HLA former student, parent or staff that speaks out against it. But please. Please tell me how a 15 year old girl sitting in a room with 17 strangers, in a state she's never been to, away from her parents for the first time in her life could possibly feel safe enough to recount intimate details of a rape, and have it be constructive in any way possible. They ask her was it dark out, was it light out. What color was the car she was in the back of. What words did he say to her while he was on top of her. Did he use a condom? Did it make her feel dirty? Did he use a chain or a rope to tie her leg to the front seat? As fucking uncomfortable as it is to read through those questions, imagine sitting in that fucking room having to answer them! And when I hesitated at all I was threatened with punishment and degraded as not wanting to "cooperate" with my "treatment". Please, Who. I am begging you. TELL ME HOW THIS COULD POSSIBLY BE WORTH DEFENDING. I am calling you out. I have never addressed you directly but you'd better step up and show your true colors here.

I have NOTHING to gain from speaking out against HLA. I live my life now, happily devoid of anything having to do with Hidden Lake. I chose not to be involved in the lawsuit. I never spent a penny that I'd want to recapture from that place. My ONLY reason for posting any of this is to get the truth about that place out. To save some other scared shitless little girl from ever having to endure all that I did while I was there.

What is it that YOU have to gain from defending a place like this?

I anxiously await your response.

I dont see myself as a defender of HLA.  I see myself as a defender of the truth.  I mentioned earlier that I wouldn’t send my kid there.  You have been here long enough to know that the truth isn’t a big priority here as long as the program looks bad.  Take the inspection results of HLA.  The reports clearly stated that the report was a list of discrepancies found, but posters like Bruce and others would rather mislead readers into believing that HLA failed every aspect of the inspection.  To me this deception does everyone harm.  No one else spoke up except myself.  There are posters who feel everyone that dies post program is a result of the program even if they have been out for years.  The reason they post crap like this is not for accuracy but to discredit programs.  But what they dont realize is that they are discrediting fornits.  Virtually no poster would step up and challenge a piece of information that portrayed a program negatively no matter how far fetched the story or information is.  Many would rather sit in silence hoping the misinformation will drive readers to believe the worst is true about programs and decide not to send their child based on this.  But what people dont see is this backfires and makes the forum look foolish.

But continuously asking questions and challenging answers, playing the devils advocate the truth eventually comes to the surface as it did in the last discussion on licensure.

I do believe that programs prepare kids for what life has to throw at them post program.  I dont believe all programs are good or bad nor are they all alike.  Many posters here like to envision the worst of the programs and peddle the idea that all programs are the same and damaging which we all know isn’t true but is good for the agenda of discrediting any program that comes along in discussion.

So Lacey, I think it is awful that that had to happen to you.  I do not condone that treatment.  I dont think all schools would do the same thing and I actually know they would not.  I dont condone harassment.  I do believethat if the rape occured post program you would be in a stronger position to deal with it then you were before hand.  

But you cannot honestly believe that spreading or allowing the spread of misinformation is going to have any long term lasting effect against these places.  They need to be exposed for what they are and back it all up with facts and data.  If you try to fool people with lies then the whole site loses its credibility.

So let me get this straight. You think that if I were to get pulled into a back alleyway tomorrow walking home from work, and were raped, that the "harrassment" (YOUR WORDS) I endured at Hidden Lake would better prepare me to "deal with it".

If by your own admission HLA "harrasses" rape victims, then what tools could I have possibly learned from these well equipped "professionals" to handle such an ordeal?

What qualifications do you hold in the treatment of rape victims to make these kinds of statements? What personal experience do you have with the effect of rape on a young person to say that anything I ENDURED (not benefited from) at Hidden Lake Academy would prepare me for my hypotectical future rape?

You're absolutely right. The biggest consistency I see in the forum is the misrepresentation of FACT. However this is not from people like me, or Bruce, or DJ, or any of the other people that you have attempted to rip apart in a desperate and delusional attempt to discredit them and every word they utter. Its from you, and those with the same motives.

The simple fact of the matter is that nothing NEGATIVE has come from the things that we have said here on fornits. What has resulted has been accountability, HLA being lisenced, and an overall airing out of HLA's dirty laundry. You spewing your self proclaimed "truths" do nothing but attempt to obscure and distract from the REAL issues at Hidden Lake.  

Who. I know, to the very core of everything I am, what happened at Hidden Lake. I do not need 3000 pages of reports to remind me. You can claim to be a "defender of truth", but I KNOW the truth. I lived it and breathed it for 23 months. And nothing of what you defend is anything that I would ever, EVER align myself with. I feel very sorry for you, Who. Because there are only two options here. Either your blissfully and wholeheartedly ignorant to anything real that has happend at Hidden Lake, and are due a very, very rude awakening. Or... You already know the truth, and are so devoid of any humanity that you would go on protecting these sick, sick individuals. If the latter is indeed the case... Then there truly is nothing left to say.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2009, 09:15:30 PM »
Quote from: "Lacey"
So let me get this straight. You think that if I were to get pulled into a back alleyway tomorrow walking home from work, and were raped, that the "harrassment" (YOUR WORDS) I endured at Hidden Lake would better prepare me to "deal with it".

If by your own admission HLA "harrasses" rape victims, then what tools could I have possibly learned from these well equipped "professionals" to handle such an ordeal?

What qualifications do you hold in the treatment of rape victims to make these kinds of statements? What personal experience do you have with the effect of rape on a young person to say that anything I ENDURED (not benefited from) at Hidden Lake Academy would prepare me for my hypotectical future rape?

You're absolutely right. The biggest consistency I see in the forum is the misrepresentation of FACT. However this is not from people like me, or Bruce, or DJ, or any of the other people that you have attempted to rip apart in a desperate and delusional attempt to discredit them and every word they utter. Its from you, and those with the same motives.

The simple fact of the matter is that nothing NEGATIVE has come from the things that we have said here on fornits. What has resulted has been accountability, HLA being lisenced, and an overall airing out of HLA's dirty laundry. You spewing your self proclaimed "truths" do nothing but attempt to obscure and distract from the REAL issues at Hidden Lake.  

Who. I know, to the very core of everything I am, what happened at Hidden Lake. I do not need 3000 pages of reports to remind me. You can claim to be a "defender of truth", but I KNOW the truth. I lived it and breathed it for 23 months. And nothing of what you defend is anything that I would ever, EVER align myself with. I feel very sorry for you, Who. Because there are only two options here. Either your blissfully and wholeheartedly ignorant to anything real that has happend at Hidden Lake, and are due a very, very rude awakening. Or... You already know the truth, and are so devoid of any humanity that you would go on protecting these sick, sick individuals. If the latter is indeed the case... Then there truly is nothing left to say.


 :notworthy:  :notworthy:  :notworthy:  :rose:  :rose:  :rose:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2009, 09:51:44 PM »
Quote from: "Lacey"
So let me get this straight. You think that if I were to get pulled into a back alleyway tomorrow walking home from work, and were raped, that the "harrassment" (YOUR WORDS) I endured at Hidden Lake would better prepare me to "deal with it".

If by your own admission HLA "harrasses" rape victims, then what tools could I have possibly learned from these well equipped "professionals" to handle such an ordeal?

What qualifications do you hold in the treatment of rape victims to make these kinds of statements? What personal experience do you have with the effect of rape on a young person to say that anything I ENDURED (not benefited from) at Hidden Lake Academy would prepare me for my hypotectical future rape?

You're absolutely right. The biggest consistency I see in the forum is the misrepresentation of FACT. However this is not from people like me, or Bruce, or DJ, or any of the other people that you have attempted to rip apart in a desperate and delusional attempt to discredit them and every word they utter. Its from you, and those with the same motives.

The simple fact of the matter is that nothing NEGATIVE has come from the things that we have said here on fornits. What has resulted has been accountability, HLA being lisenced, and an overall airing out of HLA's dirty laundry. You spewing your self proclaimed "truths" do nothing but attempt to obscure and distract from the REAL issues at Hidden Lake.  

Who. I know, to the very core of everything I am, what happened at Hidden Lake. I do not need 3000 pages of reports to remind me. You can claim to be a "defender of truth", but I KNOW the truth. I lived it and breathed it for 23 months. And nothing of what you defend is anything that I would ever, EVER align myself with. I feel very sorry for you, Who. Because there are only two options here. Either your blissfully and wholeheartedly ignorant to anything real that has happend at Hidden Lake, and are due a very, very rude awakening. Or... You already know the truth, and are so devoid of any humanity that you would go on protecting these sick, sick individuals. If the latter is indeed the case... Then there truly is nothing left to say.

I have seen many accounts (my daughter specifically) who are much stronger individuals post program then when they went in. I have seen kids lose parents and loved ones.  I have seen them in the depths of abuse, take some heavy hits from life and manage to emerge without inflicting damage on themselves physical or mental and continue on with their lives.  These were the same kids who were so fragile that any one of these events would have sent them spirally on a self destructive path.

I know there are kids, like yourself, that were hurt by the industry and I know there are abusive staff and programs which I would never recommend to a neighbor or family member.  But the volume doesn’t offset the kids that were helped.  We need to expose the ugly side of the industry, but it needs to be done honestly and without effecting the segment of the industry that is helpful to the kids and their families.

I dont expect you to understand any of this from your vantage point as I cant see what you are feeling.  But I truly believe if we can keep the information honest and call people on their BS posts (pro and anti  program) and keep questioning until the truth surfaces then we will  know where to focus the effort.
Hating the entire public school system and wanting it shut down because of one or two schools or staff members is just not going to work and is an ineffective use of peoples time .  You are just spinning your wheels with no end.  So HLA is licensed.  Are you happy now?  Does it make it a better place?  Licensing may make programs more marketable and allow them to expand more easily.  It will allow the parents to get loans more easily and maybe the loans would be guaranteed by the government if they have oversight.

If regulation is a goal then that is a noble effort to work towards and would have a measurable progress.  But it is impossible to hold a yardstick up to the effects of spreading hatred and mistruths.  Where do you, DJ and Bruce expect it to go?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2009, 12:17:31 AM »
Quote from: "truthtroller"
I did not find this event anywhere in the court papers. I did not find any recognition of other abuse, either. Please enlighten us with the doc/page number of the accusation in the court documents. If you find anything, which I doubt, then be sure to give the counter, also. Otherwise, you're biased and not a reliable source for objectivity. Also, how are you privy to someone's private medical records?  Hearsay is worthless. Even I can make up hearsay. Like a lot of this website, I think you're full of it and made it up or else you believe everything everyone tells you, which makes you very gullible to lies.
 
Clarke told the truth about this.  Kristen Bell and Josh Watson were there and they all will never forget it, nor will the childs' mother.  You speak without knowledge.  You were not involved in any parts of the investigations into HLA nor did you speak with the parents of those injured in a myriad of incidents, including rape and not just 'this' rape.  Again, your blinded by your ignorance.  People worked thankless hours researching, taking calls, making calls to expose this fiasco.  Staff took emormous risk to expose the truth at HLA, some risked their entire career, their families.  Some bureid their head in the sand.  Massive amounts of emails, letters, etc, came in from families, staff, former staff, Psychiatrists affiliated with HLA, which is privileged info... also the children were minors. I have over 15,000. paper doc's myself, not to mention electronic copy . And, it is not just me.  We all received doc's that were turned over.  Everything that came in, went to Berger and Montague..  People  were contacting Berger and Montague directly from all over the country, years apart, but all saying the same thing. The ORS has the incidents from interviewing children, families, 911 calls, LCSO interviews etc.  If you were part of the initial investigation, the lawsuit and the GAO investigation, you would have been aware of their existence.  
Conspiracy?  Complicity.  The State turned their backs for years on the children, knowing what was transpiring at HLA, but did not have the backbone to butt heads against Buccellato.
  We want accountability and an apology that will never come from the agencies, the State of Georgia and Buccellato himself.
Each and every parent of a child that was injured at HLA that I spoke  with, were totally devasted.  There were nights when the tears that soaked their faces, stung my heart.  I never met any of them, they didn't know each other, they just needed to cry and somehow found me.  Try listening to a mother of a child that they, the parents, found in the woods, raped and shot up with drugs, while LCSO were scratching their heads on the drive at HLA.  The child ended up in a Mental Institution and last I spoke to the mother, she was lost to them.  Or, the children that were hazed, zip-tied, cold cocked or found hanging in a closet...there was no supervision and certainly no care for these troubled children.  HLA was over their head and not qualified to accept or care for these children.  Heroin addicts?  The second HLA found out that any child was an active heroin , barbituate, opiate, whatever user, those families should have been called and told HLA was not qualified to detox any addicts, period. The child in question should have been removed.  That is what a decent P.H.D. in Psychology should do, but then again this was/is Buccellato.
How can you be so callous, "if we cannot learn from history..  Unless we were all put in a trance by a spaceship 15 years apart, in some cases, this all happened, deal with it, learn from it and work toward it not being allowed to occur again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2009, 12:30:12 AM »
Quote from: "JillRyan"
Quote from: "truthtroller"
I did not find this event anywhere in the court papers. I did not find any recognition of other abuse, either. Please enlighten us with the doc/page number of the accusation in the court documents. If you find anything, which I doubt, then be sure to give the counter, also. Otherwise, you're biased and not a reliable source for objectivity. Also, how are you privy to someone's private medical records?  Hearsay is worthless. Even I can make up hearsay. Like a lot of this website, I think you're full of it and made it up or else you believe everything everyone tells you, which makes you very gullible to lies.
 

How can you be so callous, "if we cannot learn from history..  Unless we were all put in a trance by a spaceship 15 years apart, in some cases, this all happened, deal with it, learn from it and work toward it not being allowed to occur again.

Why not arrest the perps, all the staff that collaborated in these atrocities, and the men who organized them: Rudy Bentz and L.B?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline along comes mary

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2009, 01:04:52 AM »
Quote from: "Lacey"

So let me get this straight. You think that if I were to get pulled into a back alleyway tomorrow walking home from work, and were raped, that the "harrassment" (YOUR WORDS) I endured at Hidden Lake would better prepare me to "deal with it".

If by your own admission HLA "harrasses" rape victims, then what tools could I have possibly learned from these well equipped "professionals" to handle such an ordeal?

What qualifications do you hold in the treatment of rape victims to make these kinds of statements? What personal experience do you have with the effect of rape on a young person to say that anything I ENDURED (not benefited from) at Hidden Lake Academy would prepare me for my hypotectical future rape?

You're absolutely right. The biggest consistency I see in the forum is the misrepresentation of FACT. However this is not from people like me, or Bruce, or DJ, or any of the other people that you have attempted to rip apart in a desperate and delusional attempt to discredit them and every word they utter. Its from you, and those with the same motives.

The simple fact of the matter is that nothing NEGATIVE has come from the things that we have said here on fornits. What has resulted has been accountability, HLA being lisenced, and an overall airing out of HLA's dirty laundry. You spewing your self proclaimed "truths" do nothing but attempt to obscure and distract from the REAL issues at Hidden Lake.  

Who. I know, to the very core of everything I am, what happened at Hidden Lake. I do not need 3000 pages of reports to remind me. You can claim to be a "defender of truth", but I KNOW the truth. I lived it and breathed it for 23 months. And nothing of what you defend is anything that I would ever, EVER align myself with. I feel very sorry for you, Who. Because there are only two options here. Either your blissfully and wholeheartedly ignorant to anything real that has happend at Hidden Lake, and are due a very, very rude awakening. Or... You already know the truth, and are so devoid of any humanity that you would go on protecting these sick, sick individuals. If the latter is indeed the case... Then there truly is nothing left to say.

Amen, babe...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:42:36 AM by along comes mary »
And then along comes Mary
And does she want to set them free, and let them see reality
From where she got her name
And will they struggle much, when told that such a tender touch of hers
Will make them not the same

Offline Anonymous

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2009, 01:24:05 AM »
Lacey wrote:

"Who. I know, to the very core of everything I am, what happened at Hidden Lake. I do not need 3000 pages of reports to remind me. You can claim to be a "defender of truth", but I KNOW the truth. I lived it and breathed it for 23 months. And nothing of what you defend is anything that I would ever, EVER align myself with. I feel very sorry for you, Who. Because there are only two options here. Either your blissfully and wholeheartedly ignorant to anything real that has happend at Hidden Lake, and are due a very, very rude awakening. Or... You already know the truth, and are so devoid of any humanity that you would go on protecting these sick, sick individuals. If the latter is indeed the case... Then there truly is nothing left to say."

APTLY STATED.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2009, 01:31:13 AM »
Quote
I know there are kids, like yourself, that were hurt by the industry and I know there are abusive staff and programs which I would never recommend to a neighbor or family member. But the volume doesn’t offset the kids that were helped. We need to expose the ugly side of the industry, but it needs to be done honestly and without effecting the segment of the industry that is helpful to the kids and their families.

You know there were kids hurt by this industry? John you send kids to be hurt by this industry. Whatsmore, you yourself adamently claimed that less then 1% of all kids ever incarcerated at these places were ever abused, You later changed your claim to 0, You claimed we were all liars. On top of that you talk about the volume of kids who were helped. Where are they John? Again you and your kiddie abusing pals have had more then 30 years to document the effectiveness of this "treatment" what's the hold up. 30 years and not a single study done? What's the volume John? What's the percentage? Can you provide any real evidence to back up your claim? Anything at all?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline along comes mary

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #71 on: July 31, 2009, 01:33:55 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I have seen many accounts (my daughter specifically) who are much stronger individuals post program then when they went in.

Yeah. I'm a lot stronger post program, I'll give you that...

But I wonder... was it the program's 'effectiveness' that made me stronger?...
OR was it the fact that:

...I had to learn on my feet how to handle seeing my friends turned into mindless shells as they internalized they disgust that hey were slathered with so generously by their 'counselors'?

...Had to handle the pressures of being interrogated while my body was screaming after hours of forced PT?

...Being screeched at by men with military training that I would give them the answer they wanted, whether or not it was the truth, or else I would be there until I lost consciousness from pain or dehydration?

Learning that no one can be trusted?

That neither the adults who I was in the 'care' of, nor my parents would protect me from physical and mental abuse?  

... Just something you might want to think about. Or better yet, ask your daughter.


Quote
I have seen kids lose parents and loved ones.  I have seen them in the depths of abuse, take some heavy hits from life and manage to emerge without inflicting damage on themselves physical or mental and continue on with their lives.  These were the same kids who were so fragile that any one of these events would have sent them spirally on a self destructive path.

Right again. The survivors survive. That was what we had to do at HLA and that is what we've been doing since.
POWs can handle the death of a loved one, too.

Are you missing the point that we are not stronger, as much as we are desensitized?

Do you think being hard and uncaring is better than being human and 'fragile'?

Do you not think that adolescent girls (or boys) are supposed to be fragile? That that is what adolescence IS?
And if not, than maybe you can specify an age at which children are no longer entitled to 'fragility'... Why wait until adolescence at all? Why not begin the torture as soon as language acquisition begins? I mean we don't need all these toddlers throwing tantrums as they 'spiral into self-destructive paths' of saying "NO" and fighting with their siblings and eating paste.


Maybe you should consider giving a little less credit for your daughter's strength to the program, and a little more to your daughter.

Namaste
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
And then along comes Mary
And does she want to set them free, and let them see reality
From where she got her name
And will they struggle much, when told that such a tender touch of hers
Will make them not the same

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2009, 01:42:48 AM »
He can't ask his daughter, he doesn't have one. He had two sons but one of them killed himself to get away from his father, This was of course after Whooter locked him up in ASR and SUWS. He has another son who he sent, still believing the crock of shit does anyone any good anywhere, to HLA.

Hey John, why dont you ask Mike if he's stronger after going through your program?

He currently is an industry shill, taking underprivledged kids and forcing them into these places. If he gets thrown a bone back for it...well who's to know right Whootie?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2009, 06:32:06 AM »
Quote from: "along comes mary"
Quote from: "Guest"
I have seen many accounts (my daughter specifically) who are much stronger individuals post program then when they went in.

Yeah. I'm a lot stronger post program, I'll give you that...

But I wonder... was it the program's 'effectiveness' that made me stronger?...
OR was it the fact that:

...I had to learn on my feet how to handle seeing my friends turned into mindless shells as they internalized they disgust that hey were slathered with so generously by their 'counselors'?

...Had to handle the pressures of being interrogated while my body was screaming after hours of forced PT?

...Being screeched at by men with military training that I would give them the answer they wanted, whether or not it was the truth, or else I would be there until I lost consciousness from pain or dehydration?

Learning that no one can be trusted?

That neither the adults who I was in the 'care' of, nor my parents would protect me from physical and mental abuse?  

... Just something you might want to think about. Or better yet, ask your daughter.


Quote
I have seen kids lose parents and loved ones.  I have seen them in the depths of abuse, take some heavy hits from life and manage to emerge without inflicting damage on themselves physical or mental and continue on with their lives.  These were the same kids who were so fragile that any one of these events would have sent them spirally on a self destructive path.

Right again. The survivors survive. That was what we had to do at HLA and that is what we've been doing since.
POWs can handle the death of a loved one, too.

Are you missing the point that we are not stronger, as much as we are desensitized?

Do you think being hard and uncaring is better than being human and 'fragile'?

Do you not think that adolescent girls (or boys) are supposed to be fragile? That that is what adolescence IS?
And if not, than maybe you can specify an age at which children are no longer entitled to 'fragility'... Why wait until adolescence at all? Why not begin the torture as soon as language acquisition begins? I mean we don't need all these toddlers throwing tantrums as they 'spiral into self-destructive paths' of saying "NO" and fighting with their siblings and eating paste.


Maybe you should consider giving a little less credit for your daughter's strength to the program, and a little more to your daughter.

Namaste

Posts like yours convince me even more that there are wide differences between programs.  My daughter had a great experience.  She will be the first one to admit it was hard and wouldnt want to do it again, but there was no abuse and she always felt safe with the staff there.  She is a stronger person post program because of what she learned about herself there.  She learned she was in charge of her own destiny and could choose how to live her life.  I am sorry for what you had to go thru.  I wish everyone could have the same experience we did, but unfortunately there will always be people in this world who prey on children.  If not in a program then in a summer camp some place or public school.  The programs which stand by and allow this to occur or turn a blind eye to it need to change or be shut down.
I think we all agree more than we disagree but we seem to be passionate in the areas of our differences.  Your experience was vastly different than my daughters and we need to work harder to elliminate what you have gone thru in programs and do more of what my daughter had.  If you had more compassionate staff and program model, Mary, I think you would have a better view of the industry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: HLA Facebook Groups
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2009, 08:37:30 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
If you had more compassionate staff and program model, Mary, I think you would have a better view of the industry.

Haven't seen anything resembling this yet.  Are you going to invent one?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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