HLA Facebook Groups

[Anonymous]

i was only there for a few months in 2003, so i dont know what the safety situation is like now.

kid-on-kid violence was common, especially at night. we broke up a "fight club" [like the movie] in dorm B the week i arrived. one time a kid was "tea-bagged" (scrotum placed in mouth) at night by his roommates and then had "i love cock" scrawled all over his body while he was sleeping. kids would also get into minor altercations very often, but would get broken up quickly. Staff-on-kid PHYSICAL violence rarely occured, if it did it was while performing a restraint improperly or while breaking up fights. what did occur was a whole lot of power-tripping: staff would single out kids they didnt like and consequence them excessively at the slightest misstep. In many ways the consequences bordered on violence - forcing kids to carry heavy objects all day, yelling and spitting in their face, forcing kids to do exercise in freezing rain, preventing visits to the bathroom, etc.

[TheWho]

so medical diagnoses trump all experience?

Yes

No need for sources or studies.

Translated: You  dont have diddly to back up what you say.

maybe if you made that child feel like a member of the family....the family could have avoided placement.

There are children who are made to feel like they are part of the family and still reject being a part of it.

So what your saying is money is the most important thing in life, and everything else comes second?

I read back and didn’t see where I said that.  There is a family unit that needs to be preserved and other children to be considered, housed and fed.

You already suffered a loss of income from placing your child in HLA's custody. and really, is income really that much higher a priority compared to your child's and family's mental health?

Exactly, if money was the high priority then parents wouldn’t spend a dime helping their kids and paying $100,000 + for one child while the other siblings have to cut back to help afford it.

hmmmm. Knowing you i'm truly not surprised. many parents of HLA students have the same attitude: "heres some money, now get them out of my hair and fix them while i go about my business".

I have no doubt that those types of parents exist.  There are all kinds out there.

read what i said regarding your choice of lifestyle and attitude.
Furthermore, siblings are never treated equally and therefore do not come out equally. read the bible, maybe youll learn something... (cain+abel). do you really think genetics predispose someone to being sent away? NO! it's the way they are raised, and you fucked up royally in that department. Get your priorities straight.

Reading about families in a bible doesn’t make you an expert.  I knew by your initial criticism that you never had any kids.  Of course parents care about all their kids equally.  You tipped your hand with that comment.  Each child is different.  You cannot adjust your parenting style to gain a desired outcome.  You can take a child to church every day and read him the bible but if he doesn’t want to become a priest then there is nothing a parent can do.... every child is different regardless of parenting style.... every parent knows this.

[Inculcated]

I guess thewho was telling the truth after all, he isnt here to defend HLA he is here to bring out the truth and add balance.

No, Not so. The previous post is evidence of how this particular troll is determined to wrest the topic off of HLA's abusive practices.

[TheWho]

I guess thewho was telling the truth after all, he isnt here to defend HLA he is here to bring out the truth and add balance.

No, Not so. The previous post is evidence of how this particular troll is determined to wrest the topic off of HLA's abusive practices.

Where?  He responded to the entire post by pg54counselor, as far as I can see, and stayed on topic.

[Inculcated]

I’ll quote the cult guy from south park on this one and advise you to “Look more closelier”. Specifically, at what troll chooses to not respond to and when troll's responses are inflammatory enough to provoke a diversion from HLA ‘s abusive practices.

i was only there for a few months in 2003, so i dont know what the safety situation is like now.

kid-on-kid violence was common, especially at night. we broke up a "fight club" [like the movie] in dorm B the week i arrived. one time a kid was "tea-bagged" (scrotum placed in mouth) at night by his roommates and then had "i love cock" scrawled all over his body while he was sleeping. kids would also get into minor altercations very often, but would get broken up quickly. Staff-on-kid PHYSICAL violence rarely occured, if it did it was while performing a restraint improperly or while breaking up fights. what did occur was a whole lot of power-tripping: staff would single out kids they didnt like and consequence them excessively at the slightest misstep. In many ways the consequences bordered on violence - forcing kids to carry heavy objects all day, yelling and spitting in their face, forcing kids to do exercise in freezing rain, preventing visits to the bathroom, etc.

I guess thewho was telling the truth after all, he isnt here to defend HLA he is here to bring out the truth and add balance.

No, Not so. The previous post is evidence of how this particular troll is determined to wrest the topic off of HLA's abusive practices.

Where?  He responded to the entire post by pg54counselor, as far as I can see, and stayed on topic.

Nope.^

[Anonymous]

i do have kids. five of them, and they all turned out just fine. how did i manage that? i do not allow myself to project an image of an ideal child and then force my child into that mold. I let them develop on their own only with my support, encouragement, and wisdom. I put their well-being above all else. I have never in any way allowed myself to become a vilified figure to my children. The one common thing I found among kids at HLA is that every single one of them has vilified at least one parent-figure. This was a bit of a shock to me, and my kids were likewise shocked to hear about it. The concept of parental vilification is completely outside their comprehension. I live scrupulously while providing a comfortable lifestyle and secure future for my family. That does not mean a 9-5 job for my wife an i, HDTV's, five cars, and a mcmansion. it means a self sufficient family farm, total financial independence, strong family bonds, and a good education. Both my wife an I work at home, and my kids have helped out ever since each of of them was old enough to perform any given task. While my kids attended public school, i supplemented them with 10 extra hours a week of home schooling in subjects they missed in high school (and college too!): philosophy, ethics, psychology, law (constitutional law in particular), history and geography of nations other than the U.S, and more traditional subjects such as carpentry, various subjects applicable to living off the land, advanced social skills, marksmanship, archery, martial arts, among many other things. My kids did not grow up in your suburban, consumerist, fetishistic society. They did not spend their days roaming the mall outfitting themselves in the latest hot-topic gear in order to set themselves apart as much as possible from the abercrombie crowd, or vice versa. They rarely skipped school because with the supplementary homeschooling, school was fun for them, and on the rare occasion that they did skip school i didnt care much because they were already ahead of their classmates. They never wandered the streets with nothing good to do, they always had plenty of work to do around the farm and plenty of safe places for recreation. they never went on "blunt rides" as kids do nowandays, because they were given a safe place to participate in that activity on my property.  They did listen to the same music, play video games, and wear similar clothing, they still deal with the same social drama, but they dont think anything of it: they did not put it on such a high pedestal in their life as to allow those things to shape their identities. They have a clear sense of themselves and their purpose in life. To them, behaving in a way similar to the children at HLA is unthinkable; yet I also allowed them to misbehave in a controlled manner. I've allowed them since they each turned 13 to smoke pot, drink, stay out late and have all the sex they want, as long as they would do so in a responsible, adult manner. My three oldest 'experimented' a little once in a while but it never turned into something their lives centered around. my two younger children (both in their 20's now) were simply never interested in any of that (other than the opposite sex) because it was a fact of life around the house since they were babies, they had more interesting, and healthy "rebellious" things to do.

[Anonymous]

pg. 54' could you please go back to sharing details on what HLA does? :feedtrolls:

[Troll Control]

Please cite your source. I would like to see the study

This is funny.  TheWho now demands studies.  For over five years he has been telling people who want to see efficacy studies that parents' anecdotal evidence is all anyone needs.  TheWho is a moron.  

And, by the way, flipping on a counselor who deems HLA as abusive isn't "adding balance" - it's trying to smear or devalue an educated professional's opinion, i.e. that HLA is ineffective and abusive, in order to PROP UP HLA.

I think little Whootie is upset because another educated professional from his beloved industry affirms said industry is highly abusive and ineffective and blames the kids' parents for their problems.  Whootie gets REAL MAD  :flame:  when his ego is crushed by yet another psychology professional telling him he is a lousy parent (his dead child isn't enough to convince him).  

So, he's just trying to silence someone he doesn't want to hear  :lala:  because he's an immature little baby that raised his kids like a fucking chump, blamed them for his problems, sent them to abusive programs, then used his son's suicide/death notice as a marketing tool to attract more dumbass parents to his industry.

TheWho is a pathetic, transparent idiot and everyone but him seems to know this.

[Troll Control]

Hey 54, you can see here about the troll "who" is tangling with you:

TheWho, Program Shill

He has posted over 850 times in this thread alone (under his username) and probably a thousand or more times anon in the same thread.  You're dealing with a first-class dope.  Enjoy!

[TheWho]

i do have kids. five of them, and they all turned out just fine. how did i manage that? i do not allow myself to project an image of an ideal child and then force my child into that mold. I let them develop on their own only with my support, encouragement, and wisdom. I put their well-being above all else. I have never in any way allowed myself to become a vilified figure to my children. The one common thing I found among kids at HLA is that every single one of them has vilified at least one parent-figure. This was a bit of a shock to me, and my kids were likewise shocked to hear about it. The concept of parental vilification is completely outside their comprehension. I live scrupulously while providing a comfortable lifestyle and secure future for my family. That does not mean a 9-5 job for my wife an i, HDTV's, five cars, and a mcmansion. it means a self sufficient family farm, total financial independence, strong family bonds, and a good education. Both my wife an I work at home, and my kids have helped out ever since each of of them was old enough to perform any given task. While my kids attended public school, i supplemented them with 10 extra hours a week of home schooling in subjects they missed in high school (and college too!): philosophy, ethics, psychology, law (constitutional law in particular), history and geography of nations other than the U.S, and more traditional subjects such as carpentry, various subjects applicable to living off the land, advanced social skills, marksmanship, archery, martial arts, among many other things. My kids did not grow up in your suburban, consumerist, fetishistic society. They did not spend their days roaming the mall outfitting themselves in the latest hot-topic gear in order to set themselves apart as much as possible from the abercrombie crowd, or vice versa. They rarely skipped school because with the supplementary homeschooling, school was fun for them, and on the rare occasion that they did skip school i didnt care much because they were already ahead of their classmates. They never wandered the streets with nothing good to do, they always had plenty of work to do around the farm and plenty of safe places for recreation. they never went on "blunt rides" as kids do nowandays, because they were given a safe place to participate in that activity on my property.  They did listen to the same music, play video games, and wear similar clothing, they still deal with the same social drama, but they dont think anything of it: they did not put it on such a high pedestal in their life as to allow those things to shape their identities. They have a clear sense of themselves and their purpose in life. To them, behaving in a way similar to the children at HLA is unthinkable; yet I also allowed them to misbehave in a controlled manner. I've allowed them since they each turned 13 to smoke pot, drink, stay out late and have all the sex they want, as long as they would do so in a responsible, adult manner. My three oldest 'experimented' a little once in a while but it never turned into something their lives centered around. my two younger children (both in their 20's now) were simply never interested in any of that (other than the opposite sex) because it was a fact of life around the house since they were babies, they had more interesting, and healthy "rebellious" things to do.

So you were able to witness first hand that there is variation from child to child which is independent of parenting style.  If one of your children didn’t like farming (just to take an example) there would be nothing you could adjust in your parenting style to make him/her embrace farming as a lifestyle.  
Now take families where one parent died the other works, there is no home schooling or extended family or farm.  Each day has a different challenge.  Once you throw this into the mix you can begin to see the challenge of keeping all the kids on track becomes increasingly difficult.  Then add adoption issues etc.

[TheWho]

The one common thing I found among kids at HLA is that every single one of them has vilified at least one parent-figure. This was a bit of a shock to me, and my kids were likewise shocked to hear about it. The concept of parental vilification is completely outside their comprehension.

Of course it is outside their comprehension.  It is outside almost every kids comprehension.  I bet if you placed one of your kids in HLA they would learn how to comprehend vilification in a short few days.  You wouldn’t be at the top of their ten most favorite peoples list.
PG54 Are you sure you worked as a counsellor?  Most professionals would understand why these kids are angry and pissed off at the ones who sent them there and you went home to talk to your kids about how miffed you were by their actions?  No offense but I find this action a bit bazaar on your part to say the least.

[RobertBruce]

In addition to Whooter John now all of the sudden demanding studies and proof being provided, despite the fact that he's never provided any, and ignores it when its shoved in his face, I find it ironic that he has a staff member verifying abusive practices, yet all John can attempt to do is attack him personally. John were'nt you crying a few weeks ago claiming this happens to you whenever you "try to present a differing perspective"?

Own up to the fact that you have once again been owned.

[Anonymous]

pg. 54' could you please go back to sharing details on what HLA does? :feedtrolls:

It may seem as if i went off on an unrelated tangent, that is not the case.

you want my professional opinion?
abusive programs exist because there is a demand for them. There is a demand for them because our society is diseased and dysfunctional. families are so messed up because of a confluence of factors all centered around the functioning of the american suburban/urban lifestyle. 9-5 jobs, long commutes, divorces, stepparents, the constant desire for more, the constant need for upwards mobility and "progress", horrible diets, dysfunctional educational system, excessive TV, "independent" women who "work" because they "can" and ignorantly deprive their family of a basic psychological need. All these things, and more, indirectly result in factors which cause problems within families, such as what guest (thewho) mentioned above: adoptions, single parents etc. it's not complexity, it's not technology. i'm no social conservative, i dont think "the gays are causing society to rot", i fucking hate bush, I voted ron paul. it's the fact that society has lost it's connection with the traditional means and ways of life which kept families glued together and stable for thousands of years. America has traded tradition for convenience, indulgence, and the ability to live life in a dollar and oil-fueled state of bliss. Look around you, read the news. has this recent economic crisis opened your eyes at all? The only thing that will eliminate programs is the elimination of the demand for them. The only way to eliminate the demand is to bring society back to a more basic, traditional, family and land - oriented social structure. Humans need purpose and stability in their lives. Modern society provides neither.

Posting on fornits in the hopes of getting programs shut down is like using a band-aid to attach a severed limb. it's not going to happen. You do have the effect of discouraging SOME parents from sending their kids away, but you wont stop the industry. This is a better analogy: Fornits is to the war on TBSs as what nancy reagan and DARE are to the war on drugs. i'm sure thats something you can wrap your minds around. I post here purely for amusement and for the opportunity to educate a few ignorant souls and pop their little reality bubbles. and i know who thewho is, i've been monitoring this site for a while but i've only posted on a few occasions in the distant past.

What will change the industry is TIME. HLA is getting what has been coming for them for a long time. It's Karma. Other institutions will come and go likewise, their lifespan determined only by the formula: How nice and luxurious they are divided by how abusive they are times how shrewd they are. Eventually, with the end of cheap oil society itself will collapse like the roman empire and the institutions will go with it. By that time, however, you guys will have much bigger things to worry about than taking your anger out on something wrong and corrupt.

You want me to go into great detail about the going-ons at HLA. it's not going to happen. As I said, I was only there for a few months six years ago. When all my kids left the house i got lonely so i figured i'd go work there. I was in for quite a surprise. Nothing i say would surprise you, most of everything i know has already been said somewhere on this forum in the past by someone else.

regarding variation from child to child: yes, i have observed exactly what you mentioned. my two girls hated farming growing up, although the boys loved it and they are still doing it. the girls moved out to a big city when they went to college and they were somewhat disgusted with the urban lifestyle. Then when they got married and had a kids i bought them a houses in an affluent suburban areas, more as an investment than expecting them to actually live there. they stayed there for five years and finally within a year of each other became fed up with it, finding it to be a caricature of rural life to appease the urban people who want peace and quiet. they were lost, didnt know what to do, their families were growing fat and lazy. Finnally, they gave up. I sold those suburban houses for a cool and very inflated thousand percent profit (~6mil each), divvied up the money between my kids. my daughters bought adjacent plots of land not too far from me and have started their own joint farming operation, and they love it. they are raising their kids the same way i raised them, and i am so damn proud of that it brings tears to my eyes. when i go, my land will go to them and she will continue the family business. My sons have also continued the family bussiness: one has an orange grove in florida, another has a ranch in wyoming, and my eldest is a well-known medical marijuana caretaker and shepherd (raises sheep) in california.

[Anonymous]

The one common thing I found among kids at HLA is that every single one of them has vilified at least one parent-figure. This was a bit of a shock to me, and my kids were likewise shocked to hear about it. The concept of parental vilification is completely outside their comprehension.

PG54 Are you sure you worked as a counsellor?  Most professionals would understand why these kids are angry and pissed off at the ones who sent them there and you went home to talk to your kids about how miffed you were by their actions?  No offense but I find this action a bit bazaar on your part to say the least.

I understood exactly why these kids were so angry. it wasnt surprising, just shocking. I was more "miffed" at their parent's ignorance and the school's complacency to uphold that ignorance than at the kid's attitude.

I was a counselor, but not for any specific peer group. I was initially hired to be a pg counselor, but they had a temporary sag in admissions so i became a supervisor, and i "floated" from peer group to peer group from week to week supervising the other counselors, untill my disgust with a certain MR. McAllister MR. Hyde and MR. Holloway pushed me over the edge and led me to quit. My degrees are in philosophy, not psychology or psychiatry. I did my master's thesis on kantian ethics...

[RobertBruce]

Pg54, could you go into the bonus program that Len instituted where counselors were given a bonus for keeping a kid locked up regardless of theraputic value.