Do you feel 'kinship' with other program survivors?

[Anonymous]

You know how war veterans get together and discuss what they've been through. I wonder why program survivors don't do that?

[Ursus]

You know how war veterans get together and discuss what they've been through. I wonder why program survivors don't do that?

My guess is... "Trust Issues." War veterans fought in the trenches together, and were usually on the same side. They helped each other, stuck together, worked as a team, and they depended on each other for their lives in order to survive that brutality. "The enemy" was tangible and external.

Program survivors, on the other hand, were coerced or pressured to rat each other out, and skewer and decimate the self-confidence and self-identity of their peers. The focus was negative and internal. "The enemy" was within.

[iamartsy]

Yes, but many of us were in different programs. I think it is the comparison crap that keeps us from using each other for assistance or help. Like if you were in CEDU and I was in a psych hospital, it is different because psych hospital has connotation that I am flat out crazy. Also, we were abused in the same ways, but the terms used for the abuse were different. At Timberlawn, there was "chair therapy" or "room therapy"" and at CEDU, there were "Fulltimes". Only at Timberlawn, there were no work assignments that I recall. Chair and room went on as long as 3 months to 2 years. There you have it, vocabulary.

[Ursus]

Ahh... the uniqueness of respective cult lingo... Some words gets recycled amongst several programs, e.g., "Brother's Keeper," "Discovery," "work crew" (now known as "2-4") and the obsession with Kahlil Gibran at Hyde School ... are also found at other programs, albeit with differing interpretations... Helps to peruse other forums on fornits and elsewhere, although it does take time and a peculiar sort of dedication!

 :clown:

[try another castle]

I  have friends who are survivors, some I knew in program, some I didn't, and some were in other programs.

Our conversations are similar to high school friends. Some of it is reminiscing, but most is about what is going on in our lives at the moment. There is rarely, if ever, any therapy, and normally when the program is invoked it is to crack jokes about the absurdity of it all, or to wax philosophical regarding cultural context.


But  mostly we make jokes about poop, because those are the kind of folks I roll with, yo.  

[FemanonFatal2.0]

In a way I think I do feel a kinship with other program survivors, regardless of the differences between our experiences or if we went to different schools in different eras, I think the way we all feel about it is the same. (most of us anyway)

Program survivors, on the other hand, were coerced or pressured to rat each other out, and skewer and decimate the self-confidence and self-identity of their peers. The focus was negative and internal. "The enemy" was within.

However this is an interesting point, the war vet analogy might not be applicable here, I think any kinship with our fellow program survivors is much more like that of former prisoners... being that in the joint, your friends were your enemies (and vice versa). But generally its just because we have been through a similar situation that we tend to understand each other in a way that others don't, there's just so much that I wouldn't even know how to explain about the program to someone who hasn't been there.

so is it kinship? maybe. but I think its more like an inside joke.

[iamartsy]

Good point. I joke with an ex program person on Facebook. It is great. Sometimes we compare stories and talk about people. Other times we point out the absurdity of program sayings that were pounded into us. We both got into our mid-forties and are highly educated in spite of what the program told us.

[Antigen]

Maybe the war vet analogy doesn't hold much water, but the former POW analogy does. I don't really get along with very many people (big surprise, eh?) But most of my most solid friends are either program vets from whatever program or people who have recognized and taken some kind of stand against the more mainstream kinds of mindfuck.

I just got thrown out of what was once my favorite bar. The incident that got me kicked was this: A friend and I had recently gotten doped at a party. Thank GOD he realized something was up before we both went entirely into the fog and he got us out of there. I hadn't been so lucky last summer, before I started hanging with this guy. Well, the other day I was in a fowl mood anyway and telling this other dude at that bar about that incident. He said it was all my fault. Several times. So I knocked his hat off. He broke a glass, accidentally, when he scooped the hat up. But that was it, I'm banned for disagreeing, rather passionately, with a regular.

So I stop in yesterday, not to drink but to check on a friend. This big dude grabs me by the elbows and physically throws me out. I got into it with that dude moths ago when he was bragging about his high morality and pure ethics for leaving a particularly rough bar because he spotted a good friend's under aged daughter being served. I was a little shocked and asked him if it might not have been more moral and ethical to have stayed to make sure the girl made it home safely. With "normal" people, at least around here, that's all it takes to make it onto the permanent shit list. Just disagree. About anything.

S'awright. The former owners got banned too for similar reasons and just recently sold their interest. That former owner is also a former cop and current (last I heard) instructor at a local alternative high school. I can get along with him just fine because we take a common view of appropriate conversation. It's alright to disagree. It's ok to have a heated debate and/or ongoing discussion. It's NOT alright to go along to get along when we're headed toward tragedy. Program vets and them others who see through the bullshit in what was once the real world outside the program understand this. Them other people who think they're normal and sane just don't get it. They frighten me and piss me off.

[Anonymous]

Honestly I don't know who I resent more, program parents, program staff, or the other program kids themselves. To answer the question I don't feel any kindship whatsoever with other survivors. Too many were sellouts willing to aide in the abuse of their peers out of fear or to make their life better. Some were enthusiastic at being given the chance to have power over their peers, which sickens me to no end.

[Froderik]

Honestly I don't know who I resent more, program parents, program staff, or the other program kids themselves. To answer the question I don't feel any kinship whatsoever with other survivors. Too many were sellouts willing to aide in the abuse of their peers out of fear or to make their life better. Some were enthusiastic at being given the chance to have power over their peers, which sickens me to no end.

But that was all the program's fault, wasn't it? The program brainwashed them into being complete bitches and assholes, so they should not be held accountable for the heinous shit they did, should they??

[Ursus]

Honestly I don't know who I resent more, program parents, program staff, or the other program kids themselves. To answer the question I don't feel any kinship whatsoever with other survivors. Too many were sellouts willing to aide in the abuse of their peers out of fear or to make their life better. Some were enthusiastic at being given the chance to have power over their peers, which sickens me to no end.

Which program were you in?

[Loli]

Yes, I do feel a kinship for those who see the program's abusiveness. For those who rationalize it, no. Fuck no.