Author Topic: What Happened?  (Read 1972 times)

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Offline Lacey

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What Happened?
« on: April 22, 2009, 03:19:52 PM »
I had some down time at work today, and was looking back through some old info posted on here. Things like the Clarke Poole emails, the fire, the things that led up to the lawsuit... How could this have just died? I understand they settled. That is dissapointing to me. I'm probably just naive, and unknowing about how these things work... But how did this just go away? What changed? Who was held accountable? As a former student, has anything been done that would give me the least bit of satisfaction? Where did everyone go? Deb, DJ, RB, and all the other regulars that I used to get on an read and FEEL their outrage... Again, as a former student, it used to be so validating to follow their arguments, and their research and know someone was out there fighting for us. I can't help but feel a little abandoned. Maybe there were things that took place that I just don't know about. My parents chose not to be part of the lawsuit (yet again, them just wanting evidence of their terrible decision-making to go away) so I was for the most part left out of the loop. Please someone explain this to me...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 10:47:08 PM »
the lawsuit pooped. the plaintiffs settled. the injustice was exposed and some justice was served, although some people feel it's not enough. hidden lake, to use an analogy, if circa 2003/04 was a gold medal winning athlete, is now a parapalegic in a wheelchair living on disability. it's still up and running, but in a very diminished capacity. furthermore, many of the problems at the school have been "solved" to a degree. kids can have ipods. they get internet acess. phone calls are less restricted, so are vacations. restrictions is sooooo easy now. the program is shorter, and there are no more 28-month peer groups + 19 year old postgrads that stay while they complete college correspondence classes. many of the abusive counselors are gone. the enrollment has dropped to a quarter of what it was five years ago. they are in debt. no reputable educational consultants want anything to do with them. ridge creek doesn't exist anymore. bucci has lost his reputation and has been publicly shamed and exposed as a homophobic homosexual, etc. etc.

furthermore, there is such extensive information on fornits regarding HLA's wrongdoings there is nothing left to expose that can be exposed. i'd be repeating myself for the 10th time if i were to discuss any negative aspect of the program. there is not much more fornits can do. we did our job, we maxed out the capacity and efficacy of online corruption-exposure and there is not much left to do. any further action must be taken through legal channels.

bassically:  ::deadhorse::


there was also the year and a half where fornits was up and down, crashing, getting moved, etc during which many members lost faith and/or interest.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 01:02:14 AM »
Quote from: "guest209409834"
no reputable educational consultants want anything to do with them.

One might well wonder what the net result of all this is on Leslie Goldberg's reaping The Fruit of the Loon and, consequently, on a portion of Whooter's claim of "credibility?"

 :D
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 02:15:50 AM »
last i heard leslie had been blacklisted. She went from hero to zero of the troubled parent industry the second that complaint from B&M came out. Not only that, she changed her email and phone number due to the excessive amount of angry phone calls she suddenly started getting. she may have moved too.

i got into college because I CCed leslie on all my applications and correspondence with colleges. or so she claimed.

A freind of mine who went to Hyde tried that for a few schools. those schools contacted him swiftly and told him that leslie wont do him any good because she has lost all credibility, they told him not to bother applying again due to their inability to determine weather or not he or leslie, or both, were being dishonest. their words were something like "your choice to use an educational consultant, specifically leslie goldberg, is to us an indicator of your potential for academic dishonesty in the future".  He tried again, applied to better, ivy-leauge schools without Leslie's help (leslie tried to convince him he wouldn't get into any good schools and recommended him to a number of small schools of lower reputation that provide "more structure"...like santa fe in florida...lol)
he got into NYU, Princeton...a few others...and he goes to cornell now with a 3.8 GPA despite his excessive love of weed, chicks, and beer.  :rasta:

go figure.


oh, and whooter's credibility went down the drain the second i got him to admit to, and extensively talk about his LSD and marijuana addled past a few years ago. Funny thing is he was lying about it to gain credibility with the wrong side....our side. i guess he was drunk at the time. HLA did teach me a few things...such as the value of "acceptance" when trying to manipulate others into digging their own graves.  :roflmao:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 02:59:51 AM »
HLA needs to graduate another Yosef (ya'll know who i'm talking about...from 56). the original lost interest in getting revenge. we need another one to finish the job he started and nail the final couple nails into their coffin.

I wonder if he's reading this. If you are, thanks for all the hard work buddy.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 10:47:10 AM »
Quote from: "guest209409834"
last i heard leslie had been blacklisted. She went from hero to zero of the troubled parent industry the second that complaint from B&M came out. Not only that, she changed her email and phone number due to the excessive amount of angry phone calls she suddenly started getting. she may have moved too.

i got into college because I CCed leslie on all my applications and correspondence with colleges. or so she claimed.

A freind of mine who went to Hyde tried that for a few schools. those schools contacted him swiftly and told him that leslie wont do him any good because she has lost all credibility, they told him not to bother applying again due to their inability to determine weather or not he or leslie, or both, were being dishonest. their words were something like "your choice to use an educational consultant, specifically leslie goldberg, is to us an indicator of your potential for academic dishonesty in the future".  He tried again, applied to better, ivy-leauge schools without Leslie's help (leslie tried to convince him he wouldn't get into any good schools and recommended him to a number of small schools of lower reputation that provide "more structure"...like santa fe in florida...lol)
he got into NYU, Princeton...a few others...and he goes to cornell now with a 3.8 GPA despite his excessive love of weed, chicks, and beer.  :rasta:

go figure.


oh, and whooter's credibility went down the drain the second i got him to admit to, and extensively talk about his LSD and marijuana addled past a few years ago. Funny thing is he was lying about it to gain credibility with the wrong side....our side. i guess he was drunk at the time. HLA did teach me a few things...such as the value of "acceptance" when trying to manipulate others into digging their own graves.  :roflmao:

The problem with basing one's hopes on a scammer's loss of credibility is... there's always another sucker coming 'round the corner. If the be-all-end-all is making money, it becomes a simple matter of outlasting the critics. Leslie Goldberg seems to be doing fine now, judging by the superficial appearance of her website. 'Course it's not like I'm really in a position to know. However, my guess is that to the average desperate parent, her "years of experience" probably count for a lot. How she is viewed by the other end of the educational spectrum may well be another story. Trouble is, a lot of desperate parents probably aren't looking that far ahead.

I'm curious whether your friend ended in "good standing" at Hyde. Somewhere on the Hyde forum, a couple of years ago, someone mentioned them sending additional materials along with the kid's transcript, in this case a somewhat disparaging letter. Apparently they pick and choose who they want to succeed.

Is Leslie fond of referring to Hyde? It would make sense, she's just down the Northeast Corridor from them...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 11:37:44 AM »
No, he was in horrible standing at hyde. his parents pulled him out halfway through his senior year due to the way the school and his peers treated him. he only got a transcript from them after a little legal wrangling. he finished the second half of his senior high school year at the same private day school he started off in (in canada), and got glowing recommendation letters from his teachers there.

just because leslie has a website doesnt mean she's doing well. a website is a marketing tool, not a testament of success.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 12:44:08 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
No, he was in horrible standing at hyde. his parents pulled him out halfway through his senior year due to the way the school and his peers treated him. he only got a transcript from them after a little legal wrangling. he finished the second half of his senior high school year at the same private day school he started off in (in canada), and got glowing recommendation letters from his teachers there.


Lols. Ya know, I've heard many a story of that ilk, over decades of kids having gone there, as far as getting transcripts from Hyde is concerned. What exactly do they expect to accomplish through that? What is their point? "Conform to Hyde, or we'll make you pay for your mistake!?"

Quote from: "Guest"
just because leslie has a website doesnt mean she's doing well. a website is a marketing tool, not a testament of success.

You're absolutely right. I was thinking of the perspective of a desperate parent. Btw, just how involved is she with STICC?
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 02:23:53 PM »
@ Lacey...

I think, and others may agree or disagree, that we (meaning people intimately familiar with HLA) did all we could to provoke the collapse of this horrid institution.  Personally, I told my story, told the stories of many others, recruited insiders to post here, cultivated contacts inside HLA (and succeeded in having reems of documents smuggled out by personnel which became much of the legal basis for the class action lawsuit), and, generally, dropped the f*cking hammer on HLA politically.  

Personally, I don't post much anymore because what I have already posted is exhaustive of my knowledge.  Whatever happens now is beyond the locus of my control.

That being said, I am incredibly proud of everyone's efforts here.  Even if there isn't much left to contribute, the work has been done and the results are archived for the present and future.  If just one parent decided not to send just one kid to that abusive shit-pit, then I feel one hundred percent gratified and satisfied with my own effort.  I am comfortable in estimating that many children were spared this depravity due to the hard work of people here at Fornits.

As far as The Who is concerned, he is just a giant phony.  If, by some weird properties of the universe, he actually was some sort of venture capitalist, he's likely lost his shirt and been knocked down a few pegs more.  This man is truly a bottom feeder, whatever his lot in life.

DJ
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 06:43:46 PM »
Quote from: "guest209409834"
reputable educational consultants

What?

Can I find them next to the square circles among the Venusian ice fields?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 06:45:30 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Guest"
No, he was in horrible standing at hyde. his parents pulled him out halfway through his senior year due to the way the school and his peers treated him. he only got a transcript from them after a little legal wrangling. he finished the second half of his senior high school year at the same private day school he started off in (in canada), and got glowing recommendation letters from his teachers there.


Lols. Ya know, I've heard many a story of that ilk, over decades of kids having gone there, as far as getting transcripts from Hyde is concerned. What exactly do they expect to accomplish through that? What is their point? "Conform to Hyde, or we'll make you pay for your mistake!?"

Quote from: "Guest"
just because leslie has a website doesnt mean she's doing well. a website is a marketing tool, not a testament of success.

You're absolutely right. I was thinking of the perspective of a desperate parent. Btw, just how involved is she with STICC?

HLA did[/still does?] the same thing with transcripts. the purpose has nothing to do with the students. it has to do with finances and reputation. 1. if there is a large amount of kids who leave hyde, either mid-semester or at the end of semesters before actually graduating, word gets around and it looks really bad for them. 2. the longer they keep the kids, the more money they get. period. they dont give a shit about the students as far as transcripts are concerned, they are not doing it out of spite or idealism. just money.

I'm convinced the whole peer-shaming/peer-approval system at hyde is also functions purely an enrollment booster, as it has no therapeutic value whatsoever, that was established in the late 80's early 90's when programs like Kids and straight (or was it synanon?) got shut down. For the most part, it works for them. it backfires when they enroll kids with a strong will and character and high intelligence. those kids consist of a very small percentage of total enrollments so they are willing to take those losses, after putting up a weak fight to test the parent's tenacity.


@ DJ: EXACTLY MY POINT. DITTO.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 06:57:20 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "guest209409834"
reputable educational consultants

What?

Can I find them next to the square circles among the Venusian ice fields?

they exist. Usually, they stay away from TBSs/RTCs and other similar institutions unless they feel like it is absolutely necessary to recommend a kid there - for example if the kid is having VERY serious issues with hard drugs. Hidden lake would have been the absolute last resort in these cases after all other options were exhausted (at the time when HLA was seen as the shining star of the TBS world). five years ago Leslie was the most reputable consultant out there. due to her tendency to recommend to therapeutic schools she is no longer considered reputable. she's one with the crowd now.

the "reputable" ed consultants i was talking about generally deal with normal kids / families who need a little guidance choosing and getting into private schools (not just boarding schools).
for example, in the more affluent neighborhoods in new york city the demand for private school education has outstripped the supply (consider the fact that the NYC public school system is among the worst in the country). there are 3-4 year waiting lists, and horrendous competition between parents. i've heard of parents paying other parents enormous sums of money (up to millions) to NOT send their kids to a particular school so that their kids could take their place. when it comes to the top city schools, the competition is even worse. you really have to know people to pull strings if you want any chance whatsoever of getting your kids into private school.
and i'm not just talking about high school. this applies to daycare and up! thats what the "reputable educational consultants" are for.
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Offline Lacey

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 07:43:38 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
@ Lacey...

I think, and others may agree or disagree, that we (meaning people intimately familiar with HLA) did all we could to provoke the collapse of this horrid institution.  Personally, I told my story, told the stories of many others, recruited insiders to post here, cultivated contacts inside HLA (and succeeded in having reems of documents smuggled out by personnel which became much of the legal basis for the class action lawsuit), and, generally, dropped the f*cking hammer on HLA politically.  

Personally, I don't post much anymore because what I have already posted is exhaustive of my knowledge.  Whatever happens now is beyond the locus of my control.

That being said, I am incredibly proud of everyone's efforts here.  Even if there isn't much left to contribute, the work has been done and the results are archived for the present and future.  If just one parent decided not to send just one kid to that abusive shit-pit, then I feel one hundred percent gratified and satisfied with my own effort.  I am comfortable in estimating that many children were spared this depravity due to the hard work of people here at Fornits.

As far as The Who is concerned, he is just a giant phony.  If, by some weird properties of the universe, he actually was some sort of venture capitalist, he's likely lost his shirt and been knocked down a few pegs more.  This man is truly a bottom feeder, whatever his lot in life.

DJ


Nice to see you again, DJ. I was unaware of much of what has changed/happened in the last year, and your posts have cleared some of this up. I have always appreciated all the hard work people like you and Deb did. I only wish I could have been more involved in HLA's subsequent downfall. Maybe everything that happened would have made me feel a bit more vindicated : ).

But as you pointed out, if less children are being submitted to the hellish environment that is HLA, then that's good enough for me. I think we all would have loved to see it burn to the groud (oh wait, part of it did...) and shut for good, but I think you all did a wonderful job. You brought so many important things to light and risked much at personal expense. So I'm sorry I sounded a bit ingrateful, I just really wasn't aware of some of the things that had transpired.

And if HLA starts to step out of line again, I'm sure it will come out, and I'll get to see all of you in action again. It truely was a sight :).

Thanks to all of you.

----

And on a side note, I didn't know Yosef was involved in all this... I graduated at the same time as PG 56. Id be interested to hear some of what happened. Anyone have a way of contacting him? He'd remember me.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2009, 07:48:27 PM »
Quote from: "guestie"
HLA did[/still does?] the same thing with transcripts. the purpose has nothing to do with the students. it has to do with finances and reputation. 1. if there is a large amount of kids who leave hyde, either mid-semester or at the end of semesters before actually graduating, word gets around and it looks really bad for them. 2. the longer they keep the kids, the more money they get. period. they dont give a shit about the students as far as transcripts are concerned, they are not doing it out of spite or idealism. just money.


Not sure what money has to do with it when you are talking about kids who need their transcripts to continue their education elsewhere, and in at least some of those cases, for application to college. There is no "rational" reason other than spite. One of those kids had already been gone from Hyde for a few years. They still wouldn't send it.

Quote from: "guestie"
I'm convinced the whole peer-shaming/peer-approval system at hyde is also functions purely an enrollment booster, as it has no therapeutic value whatsoever, that was established in the late 80's early 90's when programs like Kids and straight (or was it synanon?) got shut down. For the most part, it works for them. it backfires when they enroll kids with a strong will and character and high intelligence. those kids consist of a very small percentage of total enrollments so they are willing to take those losses, after putting up a weak fight to test the parent's tenacity.

The whole "peer-shaming/peer-approval system" dates back to early experiments using therapeutic communities in the U.S. penal system post-WWII (late 1940s). Google Lloyd McCorkle. He called it Guided Group Interaction. He later did experiments in a New Jersey reformatory in the 1950s. This was just before Synanon (1958). Hyde School was started in 1966 (Joe Gauld had tried something of that ilk at Berwick Academy in the early 1960s, but apparently there was some bad blood and disagreements).

Guided Group Interaction later became Positive Peer Culture after Harry Vorrath introduced a few changes in 1975, principle among them being the addition of "positive role models" as "mentors" (aka enforcers, narcs) in the shaming/approval gauntlet that kids were subjected to. Back then, it was considered to be of "therapeutic value." In addition to being a prison warden, McCorkle was also a psychologist.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: What Happened?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2009, 09:06:29 PM »
Quote from: "Lacey"
And on a side note, I didn't know Yosef was involved in all this... I graduated at the same time as PG 56. Id be interested to hear some of what happened. Anyone have a way of contacting him? He'd remember me.


try facebook. he's on there from time to time.
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