Author Topic: H.R 6358 and other questions  (Read 2226 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: H.R 6358 and other questions
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 11:56:06 PM »
Finally an easy to print chart and explanation! Thanks Maia!

http://www.motherjones.com/print/16436
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: H.R 6358 and other questions
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2009, 12:13:13 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Froddy's Dingleberry"
These BAD programs don't need regulation, they need to be closed and the owners held accountable. Giving them a free pass to stay open is not cool at all. If anything, Congress should do a RICO sweep of ALL programs. It's simple... We don't need more regulations that allow these BAD programs to remain open. It's a shame that survivors actually support this bill. No teeth, no bill. Put some really big teeth in it and I might reconsider. You gotta figure that the government is part of the problem. It's a complete conflict of interest.  :wall:  :wall:  :wall:

Think of it this way... although this may not be the be all end all solution it is an important step. If the standards are set and enforced by law we set the stage for those that violate those laws to be held (without any question) legally accountable. It will also set up an authority that has the power to gain access into these programs, start investigations, press charges and close down the programs that we all already know are abusive. Yes it will take time but I personally think taking the first steps are important in order to work toward the goal. As is, without this bill we have no authority and our only means of bringing these programs to justice is trying to sue... I just feel that passing this bill will give us an "in" so to speak, because at the very least creating a government agency prepared to handle this issue is far more than we would be able to do on our own.


An "in" you say? OK, I would call it an out. One that if the bill is passed, will give the industry a birds-eye view of what it needs to do to go around it, thus negating 99% of it when push comes to shove. Make amendments, they will bypass them or find ways to manipulate and create loopholes in them. Is MORE red tape needed to cover these programs? I think NOT! Your signature even says "When Injustice Becomes Law... Rebellion Becomes Duty" Making laws would have been something to do BEFORE these programs existed. Now that they have gained a foothold in American society, it's like putting a bandaid on a nasty lawnmower injury.  :clown:
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: H.R 6358 and other questions
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2009, 04:50:47 AM »
Quote from: "Froddy's Dingleberry"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Froddy's Dingleberry"
These BAD programs don't need regulation, they need to be closed and the owners held accountable. Giving them a free pass to stay open is not cool at all. If anything, Congress should do a RICO sweep of ALL programs. It's simple... We don't need more regulations that allow these BAD programs to remain open. It's a shame that survivors actually support this bill. No teeth, no bill. Put some really big teeth in it and I might reconsider. You gotta figure that the government is part of the problem. It's a complete conflict of interest.  :wall:  :wall:  :wall:

Think of it this way... although this may not be the be all end all solution it is an important step. If the standards are set and enforced by law we set the stage for those that violate those laws to be held (without any question) legally accountable. It will also set up an authority that has the power to gain access into these programs, start investigations, press charges and close down the programs that we all already know are abusive. Yes it will take time but I personally think taking the first steps are important in order to work toward the goal. As is, without this bill we have no authority and our only means of bringing these programs to justice is trying to sue... I just feel that passing this bill will give us an "in" so to speak, because at the very least creating a government agency prepared to handle this issue is far more than we would be able to do on our own.


An "in" you say? OK, I would call it an out. One that if the bill is passed, will give the industry a birds-eye view of what it needs to do to go around it, thus negating 99% of it when push comes to shove. Make amendments, they will bypass them or find ways to manipulate and create loopholes in them. Is MORE red tape needed to cover these programs? I think NOT! Your signature even says "When Injustice Becomes Law... Rebellion Becomes Duty" Making laws would have been something to do BEFORE these programs existed. Now that they have gained a foothold in American society, it's like putting a bandaid on a nasty lawnmower injury.  :clown:

Well as much as I would be in favor of shutting every one of these places down I just don't see that happening anytime soon, and rebellion has simply not done enough damage. I in no way see this bill as the solution and yes there is potential for these programs to slip through the cracks but I think doing SOMETHING is better than nothing. If we can't go around the law to bring these places down we have to go through it... I tend to think that with government support we can become better equipped to stay on top of these places, people will have an agency to reach out to where their claims wont be ignored and even if these places remain open, as long as they shape up and stop torturing kids I think its worth it to support the bill. After all this is about them, and maybe that band-aid doesn't solve the problem but it could likely save someones life so thats a risk Im willing to take.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Anonymous

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Re: H.R 6358 and other questions
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2009, 01:33:02 PM »
Not to keep harping, but what rebellion? Aside from a few very small protests and a few unpublicized in the mainstream like the flood in Fargo kind of lawsuits, where's the widespread OUTRAGE? I haven't yet seen any truly appreciable outrage by the public. If you have a cause that THOUSANDS of people can identify with then there might be enough to claim a rebellion has occurred. The never ending issue of the Teen Help/Hurt Industry. Close one, 3 pop up, report about it, report dies, lawmaker makes rule, program sidesteps it, money gets cut from budget, agency employee has NO CLUE what to look for in a program,  :beat:   I'm sorry, but I think that the bill is going to make things worse in the long run, not better.

Abuse? What abuse? I can see the complaint disposition letter starting something like this: "The Institutionalized Child Abuse Administration has no record of any claims against the program you have reported. Please check the number and try again..."
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Offline Froderik

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high on rebellion
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2009, 03:05:44 PM »
Quote
What rebellion?
The transformation of waste is perhaps the oldest pre-occupation of man. Man being the chosen alloy, he must be reconnected via shit, at all cost. Inherent within us is the dream of the task of the alchemist to create from the clay of man and to re-create from excretion of man pure and then soft and then solid gold. All must not be art. Some art we must disintegrate. Positive anarchy must exist.
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Offline Withdraw

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Re: H.R 6358 and other questions
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2009, 04:42:51 PM »
I'm still on the fence about this bill. On one hand it does give children some sort of procedure if they are being mis-treated. On the other hand making sure the kids have that opportunity is going to be impossible

The one thing that I did in my daily C.o.C. withdraws was to ask to see an attorney or social worker. Repeatedly, I was told that I had no rights and therefore I would never get to see one. It was like a daily ritual, I'd put in a withdraw, get confronted and then end up slammed to the ground, dragged to the side of group where I'd remain w/ 4-5 oldcomers sitting on me until it was time to go to the host home. 9.5 out of 10 of the days I was there, for all those months. (that's a lot of asking to see an outside advocate or legal representative, without ever getting to)  And then one day they (Straight) realized they wouldn't break me and my parents were asked to and  agreed to withdraw me.

Children NEED to KNOW they have rights. Programs must be forced to encourage kids to be informed of their rights and how to use them, if needed. A program who asks to be kept in check by it's clients and the government will be a lot better than any I know of atm.

Unless these kids get unrestricted access to a phone, and the parents aren't washed to believe their kid is a liar.... I don't see programs complying with the proposed regulations.


ps~ On an unrelated note! I did this cool experiment with red blood cells at work today, for biology. I wanted to understand and see first hand how Osmosis worked within the cell... It was amazing to see how the red blood cell responds to changes in it environment. Wow! in the simplest form... I could see how a change in ones environment caused chaos and destruction....almost instantly. OMG, I love school! (Never thought I'd ever say that, LOL )
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: high on rebellion
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2009, 05:07:38 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote
What rebellion?
The transformation of waste is perhaps the oldest pre-occupation of man. Man being the chosen alloy, he must be reconnected via shit, at all cost. Inherent within us is the dream of the task of the alchemist to create from the clay of man and to re-create from excretion of man pure and then soft and then solid gold. All must not be art. Some art we must disintegrate. Positive anarchy must exist.


What kind of anarchy would we have these days? There's only about 54 Billion different opinions floating around at any given moment...  :roflmao:

From Wikipedia:

"Anarchists are those who advocate the absence of the state, arguing that common sense would allow people to come together in agreement to form a functional society allowing for the participants to freely develop their own sense of morality, ethics or principled behaviour. The rise of anarchism as a philosophical movement occurred in the mid 19th century, with its idea of freedom as being based upon political and economic self-rule. This occurred alongside the rise of the nation-state and large-scale industrial capitalism, and the corruption that came with their successes.

Although anarchists share a rejection of the state, they differ about economic arrangements and possible rules that would prevail in a stateless society, ranging from complete common ownership and distribution according to need, to supporters of private property and free market competition. For example, most forms of anarchism, such as that of anarcho-collectivism, anarcho-communism or anarcho-syndicalism not only seek rejection of the state, but also other systems which they perceive as authoritarian, which includes capitalism, markets, and private property. In opposition, a political philosophy known as free-market anarchism or anarcho-capitalism argues that a society without a state is a free market capitalist system that is voluntarist in nature.

The word "anarchy" is often used by non-anarchists as a pejorative term, intended to connote a lack of control and a negatively chaotic environment. However, anarchists still argue that anarchy does not imply nihilism, anomie, or the total absence of rules, but rather an anti-authoritarian society that is based on the spontaneous order of free individuals in autonomous communities, operating on principles of mutual aid, voluntary association, and direct action."
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Offline Froderik

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Patti Smith - Easter
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009, 05:41:47 PM »
Quote
What kind of anarchy would we have these days?
I don't know, perhaps Patti Smith could answer that question!
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