Author Topic: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)  (Read 1434 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
« on: March 20, 2009, 10:03:26 AM »
I have a question regarding the use (abuse) of therapeutic holds and escorts.

As staff, we were trained for two days on how to correctly use PCS.  I have googled it.  I have searched on this forum for any reference to it.  I cannot find anything.  The videos of "takedowns" that are listed here are not even close to the method I was trained to use.  During training we were told that if during the proper execution of a therapeutic hold that if a student was hurt, that the facility would back us up legally.  The incident reports that are submitted regarding each individual incident is edited by administrative staff to shed the best possible light on the facility and staff involved.  Some of the reports that I filled out changed so significantly that I could not recognize that I wrote them.  Is PCS a real thing?  How naive was I to believe that any facility in the event of a lawsuit would protect it's employees?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 10:31:00 AM »
Quote from: "Guardian Angel"
I have a question regarding the use (abuse) of therapeutic holds and escorts.

As staff, we were trained for two days on how to correctly use PCS.  I have googled it.  I have searched on this forum for any reference to it.  I cannot find anything.

That's because there is no such thing.


 
Quote
The videos of "takedowns" that are listed here are not even close to the method I was trained to use.  During training we were told that if during the proper execution of a therapeutic hold that if a student was hurt, that the facility would back us up legally.

First, I have to laugh at the thought of them "backing you up legally".  Excuse me just a minute.....
 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Second, what is "proper execution of a therapeutic hold"?


Quote
The incident reports that are submitted regarding each individual incident is edited by administrative staff to shed the best possible light on the facility and staff involved.   Some of the reports that I filled out changed so significantly that I could not recognize that I wrote them.

NOoooo!!!!   Really???????????????  I'm SHOCKED!  Shocked I tell you.   ::)


 
Quote
Is PCS a real thing?  How naive was I to believe that any facility in the event of a lawsuit would protect it's employees?

No and extremely.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 10:42:31 AM »
I found a few mentions:

http://hs.utah.gov/glossary_eng_positiv ... stems.html
Utah lists it as "The process used to discipline out of control or noncompliant youth."

Aspen mentioned on ST after Obsidian Trails killed a kid:
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe05.html

It's mentioned on this program here:
http://www.easternarizonaacademy.com/staff.shtml

This UTAH guy describes a bit about it here:
http://toddmadsen.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html

This transport company uses it:
http://www.newstarttransports.com/index ... fied-staff

Other than the troubled teen industry, I can find no mentions of that phrase anywhere (at least not referring to a restraint techinque).

All in all it sounds rather Orwellian.  "positive control systems" rather than "holding a kicking and screaming child down".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 10:47:28 AM »
Quote from: "Guardian Angel"
the facility would back us up legally.

LOLs... You'd end up taking the fall if the program could get away with avoiding embarrassment by it...  I guarantee that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Ursus

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Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 11:23:16 AM »
It was briefly discussed on fornits about four years ago, in a thread on European Youth Academy (this facility apparently no longer exists).

Apparently Red Cliff Ascent also uses it, from Sociopranos:

    ...What about the part at RedCliff Ascent where the kids' legs were buckling under them through the sheer physical exhaustion of being forced to carry illegally heavy backpacks at high altitude? What about the Positive Control System whereby kids' joints are twisted in ways they are not supposed to go and force is applied to pressure points to cause excruciating pain without leaving the marks of a conventional beating? This video clip contains a description of the technique:
    http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/RedCliff.ram[/list]

    And here's an excerpt from "SURVIVOR REPORT #2 BY ANON" re. Aspen Ranch's use of PCS:, from HEAL's site:

      Aspen Ranch uses a physical restraint system called PCS (positive control system) which is actually FAR from positive. PCS includes a barrage or various pressure points and bent wrists, locked joints, and strained tendons. Once put into PCS submission you are held here by a minimum of 3 staff, you're pulse regularly checked to indicate your level of anger. You are normally on the ground (also known as "Carpet Time" for a norm of 45 minutes to an hour)  They use any method of getting you down, whether it be calmly asking you to cooperate with them or tackling you through a crowd of people onto concrete (which seems to be a staff favorite). I have seen many of my friends at Aspen Ranch end up with broken wrists from PCS. I have myself lost the feeling in the tips of my fingers for days  as a result of being held in PCS submission for over 3 hours. Once you are PCSed (on top of everything) you have to go to R&R (redirection and recovery) more commonly known as the room where you where red sweat pants and sweat shirts even in the dead of the summer (in the Desert) to no avail...[/list]
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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      Offline Ursus

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 11:48:44 AM »
      Quote from: "psy"
      Other than the troubled teen industry, I can find no mentions of that phrase anywhere (at least not referring to a restraint techinque).

      I also could find no such mention outside of the TTI. PCS would appear to be a method specific to this industry, and not one recognized or accredited by any standard organizations.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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      Offline EricasMom

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 12:09:05 PM »
      Also a mention of the PCS curriculum in the November '08 Oregon Outdoor Youth Program Advisory Board meeting minutes.

      http://http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/children/committees/oyp/oyp_2008-11_minutes.pdf
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline try another castle

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #7 on: March 27, 2009, 10:37:44 PM »
      CEDU never had such a thing, but I have been in a place that used "restraint" and that term was never used.

      I'm not exactly sure what the method was called at the place I was. I remember that it was always one-on-one, never more than one staff on a kid, and it only happened if the kid did what was known as "go off", and they would do something such as punch their fist through glass. i.e. it was used as a way to keep the kid from hurting themselves further. It wasn't even used to break up fights, if memory serves. My guess is that it was a derivation from the methods utilized in psych hospitals, albeit sans the ganging up on one kid and putting them in poseys. It was used rarely, although I saw it happen a few times.

      It later abandoned the use of restraint. They realized that it could cause further harm than simply letting the kid "run out of gas" and just have their tantrum. I remember reading an article by one of the social workers who stated that the idea of restraint to protect the safety of a kid is a severe misconception and utilizing a "hands off" approach in those situations is essential.


      Important to note that this place isn't part of the industry. Never was. Probably why they actually evolve with the kids' well-being in mind.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Nihilanthic

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 06:58:11 PM »
      Quote from: "Guardian Angel"
      I have a question regarding the use (abuse) of therapeutic holds and escorts.

      As staff, we were trained for two days on how to correctly use PCS.  I have googled it.  I have searched on this forum for any reference to it.  I cannot find anything.  The videos of "takedowns" that are listed here are not even close to the method I was trained to use.  During training we were told that if during the proper execution of a therapeutic hold that if a student was hurt, that the facility would back us up legally.  The incident reports that are submitted regarding each individual incident is edited by administrative staff to shed the best possible light on the facility and staff involved.  Some of the reports that I filled out changed so significantly that I could not recognize that I wrote them.  Is PCS a real thing?  How naive was I to believe that any facility in the event of a lawsuit would protect it's employees?

      I've had several months of JiuJitsu.

      Want to see whose better at this?
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
      DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

      CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

      TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

      Offline Che Gookin

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 09:42:07 PM »
      I've been trained in Sama, Par, TCI, and last year CPI. Not sure why I needed CPI for working with guys who had Cerebral Palsy but that's the government for you.

      I've never heard of Positive Control Systems, but.. It does sound alot like Positive Action Response, or PAR. The PAR methodology uses different pressure points to force compliance and my experience with it was the state of Florida wanted us to learn the pressure points(Working for Eckerd Youth) while the place I worked (eckerd youth) opted not to have us taught the pressure points and we only learned the holds.

      Now I do remember that Brat Camp video showing that girl being forcibly escorted with the wrist locks.


      Seriously.. GA Tell me more about this system as one of my long term projects is to put together some sort of database on the various restraint/torture methods that are being taught.

      btw... Programs claim they'll back you up if you follow their protocol but ask yourself this, "How poorly worded is the protocol and how much training did you get in interpreting that protocol for different situations?

      I'm guessing very little in either and that ought to tell you everything you need to know.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Guardian Angel

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 01:09:56 AM »
      Quote from: "Che Gookin"
      I've never heard of Positive Control Systems, but.. It does sound alot like Positive Action Response, or PAR. The PAR methodology uses different pressure points to force compliance and my experience with it was the state of Florida wanted us to learn the pressure points(Working for Eckerd Youth) while the place I worked (eckerd youth) opted not to have us taught the pressure points and we only learned the holds.

      Well Che..semantics plays a huge part I've learned in all of this.  We were instructed in regards to "control points".  We were told never to call them pressure points because that sounds bad.

      Quote from: "Che Gookin"
      Seriously.. GA Tell me more about this system as one of my long term projects is to put together some sort of database on the various restraint/torture methods that are being taught.

      I'd be happy to tell you everything I know for your database.  Email me...unless you really think the lengthy explanations belong on this thread. It really is quite lengthy...

      Quote from: "Che Gookin"
      btw... Programs claim they'll back you up if you follow their protocol but ask yourself this, "How poorly worded is the protocol and how much training did you get in interpreting that protocol for different situations?

      Yes, I'm finding out more and more of what the program "claimed" to be false at best.  The books that we were "given" for training were not ours to keep.  In fact we had to share them during training because there were not enough to go around.  We received two days training.  The program offers additional clarification each week during their training meetings, but it's more of a lesson in "let's learn how to write this up so that it sounds better when the parents read it".  

      The protocol, as it were, is rarely followed by staff.  
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Che Gookin

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #11 on: April 13, 2009, 01:31:29 AM »
      You still working there? If so I have a proposal for you.

      Give me a buzz on yahoo or AIM

      dan_the_chainsawman for yahoo

      tswaygookin for AIm
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Che Gookin

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 01:41:43 AM »
      And..

      I remember for SAMA, Satori Alternatives for Managing Aggression, we were told not to call them restraints. We were supposed to call them containments.

      The kids called them, "Bammings".

      What I'd really love is the manual for Positive Control Systems so I can have the pertinent points posted on Bullshido (I think that is what it is called) and have a bunch of martial arts experts rip on it for a while.

      Other things of value are documents. If you do decide to go public I'm going to warn you of two things.

      1) Documents are your friends. I could have probably run 3 springs(the dump I worked at) out of business but I didn't have any paper to prove my claims. Bring a paper trail with you.

      2) Bring the policy and proceedure manual home and copy the fucker from front to back. Keep a running diary, plus names of witnesses, of the breaches of protocol.  Because as a mandatory reporter you have an opportunity to fuck them right in the shitter.

      Step A: Get a good lawyer...

      Step B: make a full report.. don't wait to long as you might get in trouble for stalling.

      Step C: Wait till the shit hits the fan and they fire you.

      Step D: Sue them into hell's oblivion for violating state laws and wrongful termination. Because under the mandatory reporting laws you can't loose your job for making reports.


      Try not to target some low level flunkies either. If at all possible head for the high level ass biters and blow them out of the water. Maybe consider bringing a cellphone that has one of those video cameras built into it to work to record the events as they transpire.


      If you don't work at the program please tell me you kept all your papers... please.. please..

      See I was fired from Three Springs for something that they were right to fire me for. Meh.. Long story.. go see the three springs sub form for my personal story about my time at 3 springs.

      In my race to leave it all behind me I threw away every shred of paper I had on the place. EVERYthing... including a very comprehensive journal with names.. Dates... egads.. jesus.. this thing had some dynamite in it. I could kick my own ass for tossing it.

      But yeah.. don't throw away anything.. memos.. training guides.. reports... keep copies of everything..

      Good luck!

      ps.. How long did PCS training take?
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline firstresponder

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      Re: Positive Control Systems (takedowns?)
      « Reply #13 on: April 14, 2009, 03:21:10 AM »
      in the states the ONLY exceptionable method of a hold on a child is the 5 point no presser hold. that is all LEO's or medical staff can do. it is considered safer than most (note ANY hold on a child classified as an individual under 18, still has the potential to be deadly.) safe. however it is a LAST RESORT. you first are to defuse the situation with words or just wear them down (keep talking till they get tired, etc... no hands on)  any hands on restraint may only be preformed by individuals who have take a class certified with the AMA or one that is certified by the pediatric doctors. that is the only way to do it legally. other wise it is considered a unusable restraint. hell when i took my EMT b we had to have at least 2 witnesses and 1 LEO there if we had to restrain a child.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
      trained to save you ass not kiss it.