On Forgiveness

[Woof-a-Doof]

I am no saint by any stretch of the imagination. Yet I am not an evil individual either. I strive to be the best person I am capable of being. I don’t use the word “potential”, because it implies that some day I will reach my “potential”…and fact is tomorrow, or ‘some day’ never really gets here. All I have is this day, this moment and so I strive to be best I am capable of, which denotes fulfilling the capacity I have as an individual now. Not tomorrow, or some day in the future.

What keeps me from reaching my capacity? For me, today, and days, weeks, months, years and decades gone by, the one thing that keeps me tethered to my lack of…for lack of a better word “growth” is the haunting memories of Straight Inc. and the indoctrination of practices I sadly still employ to this day whether it is my intention or not. This brings about extreme frustration, disappointment (in myself), anger, rage, and general malaise.

I have written before about the percentage of brain washing that “took” and that, which did not take. I spoke how the internal battle, between the brainwashed portion of the mind and the Non-brainwashed aspects of the mind are at constant odds with each other. This of course generates further discontent within. I am not of the opinion I am alone in feeling this way.

Having been a member (at fornits) here for sometime now, having read the experiences of others and the experiences since incarceration in the confines of warehouses spread through out the United States. I feel like a thread woven into the cloth of commonality, which we all share. I often think of a sweater unraveling or the fraying of jeans at the heal portion of the trousers. I often wish that to be the case, and yet I am horribly afraid of the result of such an unraveling. Would I come apart completely? Will, who and what I imagine myself to be worse off if I abandon my resentments of past events, circumstances and memory. At other times I can’t image letting my resentment, my rage, my anger…wouldn’t even consider the thought. Because I feel justified in my indignant frothy rage and torment.

Perhaps it would be different if I was “court ordered” to Straight Inc., but I was not. My parents placed me there. If it had been the courts, my anger, I believe, could be strictly aimed at Straight Inc. and the Courts. But this is not the case. My anger is not only with Straight Inc and those who perpetrated the abusive environment under a guise of therapy. But my parents are also included within this quagmire of anger, rage and disgust. Why? Simple, they put me there. Now lots of psychological bullshit can be amassed stating that my actions placed me there. But it’s just that, bullshit. This line of thinking absolves all responsibility of those guilty in the abuse.

Like in quicksand I grabble for something to keep my head above disaster. Unfortunately it is a constant effort, as twigs snap, ropes fail, hands reaching out cannot reach, nor understand…even with the best of intentions. And so the struggle continues 3 decades later.

A word that continues to enter my mind stream is forgiveness. At the best of times my inclination is to say “FUCK THAT”, yet in reviewing my options at breaking away from the chains of Straight Inc. it seems most logical. Yet, I find myself without the capacity to forgive at this time. Even though, it is my wish, a true wish to be able to forgive I have yet to be able to do so completely with out reservation. Certain individuals have been forgiven and even some circumstances have been forgiven. But in large, there has been no sense of genuine forgiveness.

Most, if not all the great Holy Text’s promote the idea of forgiveness and go one-step further, to have compassion for those I forgive. This idea meets extreme opposition tween my ears. I cannot begin to fathom the idea of having compassion for an institution, along with a broad spectrum of individuals contained within that institution, namely, Straight Inc.

Perhaps there is a reason that the word “forgiveness” continues to pop into my consciousness.  I seriously wonder if I have the capacity to forgive. Even with the amount of purging I have done in past 4-5 years in regard to Straight Inc. I still continue to doubt my ability to genuinely forgive.

I read this morning a passage about forgiveness, which said in part:

“However, forgiving another does not mean we allow the same wrong to be repeated. We have to realize that while it could be our negative karma that we are wronged, we should put in the effort to prevent the person who did us wrong from doing more harm, creating more negative karma for himself.  By being complacent, we could well be creating more negative karma for ourselves!”

How do I read this? Could part of forgiveness be stopping, exposing the atrocities? Is it saying that to forgive is not only for myself but an action to and for another? Is it saying that if I merely forgive and become complacent in satisfying the heat of the rage for my own happiness, I could be creating more trouble for myself?

Quite simply, what is the best thing I can do to exist in relative comfort within my own skin and tween my own two ears?

I realize as I write this and present it to a group of people with varying opinions. I don’t know what to expect as a response. In no small way do I feel exceptionally vulnerable, not unlike handing over a sharpened blade to a people who I know much about, may very well slit my throat for suggesting such an idea. However, it is not the first time I have visited this idea and written about it and in looking back, I survived. And yet I haven’t any recollection of how I survived, but here I am.

I wonder, please with out attacking me, what are your thoughts on this idea of “forgiveness” as it relates to Straight Inc.? Is it possible? Is it feasible? Would it be too painful to revisit, to examine and to forgive? Would it be possible to forgive and continue our efforts to expose such places as Straight Inc. and people like the Semblers, the Petermans, the Ross’s, the Newtons, the Casslors, the Hemingers we all knew…. perhaps with different names but with similar functions?

Or would it be just as simple to continue to hate and despise?

Answers have come to me slowly and with great effort and I still continue to doubt them because of the attachment I have to the anger/rage etc. Swirling about my brain are questions of; Is forgiveness out of the question? Am I willing to forgive if a public apology is made? Am I willing to forgive with out an concession of wrong doing? Am I willing to forgive unconditionally? Will I be at peace with Straight Inc., if I forgive? Am I less of a person if I forgive?

Unable to come to any conclusion in this matter I pose the same questions to you, the reader, in the following poll.

Much Healing
In Peace
woof

[psy]

“However, forgiving another does not mean we allow the same wrong to be repeated. We have to realize that while it could be our negative karma that we are wronged, we should put in the effort to prevent the person who did us wrong from doing more harm, creating more negative karma for himself. By being complacent, we could well be creating more negative karma for ourselves!”

The way I see it, forgiveness is irrelevant.  The program I was in continues to do harm.  I choose to forgive them for what they did to me.  I don't forgive them for what they continue to do.  Maybe it's not my place to forgive them for what they continue to do to others, but as you note, it is my place and my duty to speak out against it and try to stop it (as is anybody else who knows).

The system the Sember's helped create continues to do harm as well.  Do they not bear some responsibility for that. Will they ever come out and denounce their creation, maybe condemning Straight clones they helped create indirectly as well?  Until that point comes, they continue to participate in current abuse through their knowledge and their inaction.

[Ursus]

Well, I think it is easier on one's constitution if one can forgive, but there are few things worse for one (save, perhaps, the initial injustice to begin with) than attempting to force oneself to forgive that which one really doesn't. It is very much an individual journey. And a person's position on that journey needs to be respected, regardless of what it is.

You bring up the concept that there is karma attached even to inaction, a concept I have always found personally quite challenging, given that I often find it far more preferable to sink into the woodwork. I liken the "inaction-karma" concept to the old adage "with knowledge comes responsibility," and I guess that is a good part of why I post on fornits (though certainly not the only part, lol). However, as above, a person's individual position on this needs to be respected.

As far as forgiveness goes, I am of the same mind as psy on this one, i.e., that forgiveness or lack thereof is irrelevant to the aforementioned actions. Personally, for what it is worth, I do not forgive the program, although there are certainly many individuals who I have forgiven.

[Anonymous]

Revenge is best served cold.

[Botched Programming]

As far as forgiveness goes, I could not forgive "Straight Inc." As far as the people that were warehoused with me with the exception of executive staff and the infamous Mel Sembler, they have my forgiveness as they were subjected to the same abuse as myself. The staff members from senior staff down to staff trainees were the unfortunate ones, they were the ones that were and some still are "BRAINWASHED"

Others such as myself are the result of "BOTCHED PROGRAMMING" and we are the ones who suffer the adverse effects.

If only the bastards such as Mel Sembler, Dennis Buttimer (Atlanta Executive Staff), and the rest of the executive staff would be subjected to something that was equally as abusive.... Maybe Guantanamo Bay perhaps for a period of time such as we had to endure... I would feel some resolve, but not forgiveness..

They did this in the name of a dollar.... It was not about helping troubled teens which our parents were brainwashed into believing.

Again I say...... Guantanamo Bay Cuba is where they need to be.

Sincerely,
Botched Programming

[psy]

I do not forgive the program, although there are certainly many individuals who I have forgiven.

I think this more accurately sums up what I was trying to say.  And I'd also have to agree with BP above.  Maybe I was too quick to say I forgive them entirely.  There is at least one exception (the leader).

[Anonymous]

Before becoming familiar with fornits I existed in a state of vague confusion regarding my experiences at CEDU. I realized that the experience colored every aspect of my personality, negatively impacted my ability to function in society and made life's existence almost completely secondary to an inner conflict I could neither define nor comprehend, but I had no clue of the how or why of it. I am only now beginning to understand the lasting effects  "programming" has had in my life. I'd give special thanks to the other sites fornits has directed me to as well.

   It's been over two years since I stepped into any kind of a twelve step recovery meeting. Man... am I glad of that. After being called a dope fiend and a scumbag as many times as I was as an adolescent at CEDU it's easy to see how I might have believed I was an alcoholic ( if such a thing as alcoholism actually exists, I remain unconvinced) or a drug addict. It now seems clear to me and safe to say, I most certainly am not. Ah, but if only that made life easier.

   Having wasted so much of my life contending with a difficulty I don't have and subjecting myself to the warped and twisted inclinations of Alcoholics Anonymous and it's devotees for so long has left me ill prepared to deal with the basic fundamentals of successful contemporary existence. I now content myself with the lifestyle of the approximately eight-hundred thousand other homeless people in America.( a million? )

   Forgiveness isn't for people like me. It exists for those who are capable of meting out justice and even though there does not appear to me to be anything like justice in the world I live in I'm willing to admit that perhaps such a thing exists. My guess is that like the rest of us unfortunates who find ourselves contemplating such things you'll always be on your way to real inner peace and that it will always prove elusive. Oh well... Being on the way to real inner peace is better than nothing.

   These days it appears that the deal is about to go down in a way that will shake the foundation of most good folks thinking on matters such as permanently depriving personal liberty to thousands through "programming" young adults. Yeah,sure... and the tooth fairy will ensure universal health care to all  Americans. Geez...Did you see those commercials for drugfree.org yesterday during the NFL games? Things aren't getting any better on this whole troubled parent front.

   Keep up the good work
   PEACE

[Woof-a-Doof]

For those who responded, I have learned a lot from your comments. I think primarily what hit me the most was that “Forgiveness” as such is an incremental process. Also, that we are all in different stages of preparedness for a conscious act of “Forgiveness”. And as Ursus eloquently pointed out, “a persons position on that journey needs to be respected, regardless of what it is.” Ursus continued to say, “I do not forgive the program, although there are certainly many individuals who I have forgiven.” I understand the core of this statement, I believe fully, for I have found myself in similar if not exact same position.

Psy’s first comment struck cord (on a positive note) He stated that he has “chosen to forgive them for what they did to me”. This I believe demonstrates the possibility that “forgiveness” is possible, even if only in part. Again this shows me that it, “forgiveness” is incremental in nature. For it is ‘our place and duty to speak out against it (the atrocities) and try to stop it’.

The Semblers creation without argument continues to do harm as well, and it is without question they bear responsibility for that. The question asked was, “Will they ever come out and denounce their creation, maybe condemning Straight clones they helped create indirectly as well?” Stellar question! My hunch is that we will never see that day. Have we ever seen a politician admit he was wrong? In the same line of reasoning, have we ever heard a multi-millionaire, with an ego the size of the Crawford ranch in Texas, admit that his pet project, and his wife’s favorite passion apologize? Answer is simple here, no. And I agree 100% as long as they participate in current abuse through their knowledge and their inaction…they remain responsible for the thousands of walking wounded meandering about this country.

I am not of the school of thought that one must force themselves to forgive that which one really doesn’t. However, if a person is so inclined, their stance should be respected. If they have a method of doing so, it is my hope that it be shared. Reason is that there may be people at that stage and indeed are inclined to forgive, yet have no guidance, instruction or idea on how to achieve this state of “forgiveness”. It is an option, I think, that should remain open and accepted in our ranks.

Botched Programming brought up a significant point when he said; “They did this in the name of a dollar”. True enough, sadly however, this was not the only reason. Assignments to, Australia, Rome as ambassadors of the United States was clearly a gift for their efforts. Once the program was recognized by, the Regan’s, Princess Di and a host of other celebrities via auctions and other fund raising events. Straight Inc clearly got a green light to proceed with extreme prejudice. Hell even Oprah got her .02 cents in and interestingly enough I recall reading when she was presented with the facts she blatantly refused to recant her endorsement. Seriously, God forbid if one was wrong to actually stand up and admit it. Not that I ever enjoyed her show, but damn, I have trouble having any respect for her. Money indeed does strange things to people and makes strange people over things.

The Homeless Guy seemed to have connected all the dots. As the fog began to lift he also so the damage created at the hands of the greedy. My heart goes to you, for you are not unlike myself in many ways. He stated “Forgiveness isn’t for people like me” yet is willing to admit that perhaps such a thing exists. It’s a start. Believe in Forgiveness I don’t think is the total answer; I think believe is merely a start to a healing process. If I believe going to the Dr. will help my sore throat or what ever, it is not the belief that will actually bring the cure, the belief merely gets me to the Dr’s office in the first place, the Dr. and medication will be the cure (just to illustrate an example).

My wish is that The Homeless Guy continues to seek that inner peace. It is not the peace that remains so elusive; it is our own doings, our thoughts, our actions, our perspectives that keep us from recognizing that inner peace is not only possible but also inevitable. And yes, striving for inner peace is better than living in rage or worse.

This is a struggle, there are no simplistic answers and I certainly do not pretend to have the magical answer, or the pixie dust to sprinkle over all of us. However, I maintain it is possibility worthy of investigation if only on an individual basis.

Much Healing
In Peace
woof

[Anonymous]

Forgiveness is completely out of the question.

Miller Newton deserves to be eaten alive by rabid weasels.

Mel Sembler should be castrated without anaesthetic on live TV.

[Deprogrammed]

“However, forgiving another does not mean we allow the same wrong to be repeated. We have to realize that while it could be our negative karma that we are wronged, we should put in the effort to prevent the person who did us wrong from doing more harm, creating more negative karma for himself. By being complacent, we could well be creating more negative karma for ourselves!”

The way I see it, forgiveness is irrelevant.  The program I was in continues to do harm.  I choose to forgive them for what they did to me.  I don't forgive them for what they continue to do.  Maybe it's not my place to forgive them for what they continue to do to others, but as you note, it is my place and my duty to speak out against it and try to stop it (as is anybody else who knows).

The system the Sember's helped create continues to do harm as well.  Do they not bear some responsibility for that. Will they ever come out and denounce their creation, maybe condemning Straight clones they helped create indirectly as well?  Until that point comes, they continue to participate in current abuse through their knowledge and their inaction.

Beautifully stated!
-DP

[Anonymous]

forgiveness what's that???

[Woof-a-Doof]

forgiveness what's that???

transitive verb
1 a: to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult> b: to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>
2: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive one's enemies>
intransitive verb
: to grant forgiveness

No where in any definition of the word have I found the word "FORGET". Also, no where have I found any indication that lack of action is an aspect of the word. "To cease to feel resentment", means anger, hate, disgust and all the other wonderfull emotions are left behind, dropped.

Think of a pro boxer stepping into the ring, or any competitive fighter stepping into the ring with anger, hostility, or hatred. This fighter, filled with hate, rage or whatever, will be slaughtered because he has no grasp of his emotion. If the emotion is removed, the fighter then relies on a skill set that has been taught, and chances are, he will control the battle.

However, if one wants, wishes, or maintains his stance on anger...feel free to do so, it's certainly justified, here I believe there is no argument. This is ones own choice....be filled with anger....be consummed with rage....allow hate to control your actions. You are free to do these things, be my guest.

Yet if one wants to fight, to bring down these institutions of orgainized child abbuse, domestic terrorisim...I suggest leaving the anger/hostility/rage at home. Operators of these institutions will use your own anger/hostility/rage against you, to make one look foolish and your credibility crumbles and you are percieved as "disgruntled" and your eforts dissmissed as such. And in the end, you have accomplished nothing. In the end, your left with your anger/rage/hostility and now the added bonus of being humiliated by those who are more in control of thier emotions. In short, they win, you lose.

Dont forget anything, compile the facts, organize your thoughts, focus on dates, names, events and present them without the anger/rage/hostility.

Not to mention how the anger/rage/hostility effects loved ones, spouses, our children and our own sense of well being.

Ya don't have to forgive, ya neededn't release your anger/rage/hostility. The ones that take this stance will have to live with these emotions....I simply choose not to. However, don't delude yourself into thinking I will not fight on a moments notice to protect our right to HEAL. Dont think for a sec, if given the opportunity, I won't fight for the injustice, cruelty and absolute unnessasary suffering happening across our country to our younger counterparts. If you surmise my intent in such a manner...your simply mistaken. Simply put, you would be fucking wrong.

It's easy to hate, a most simplistic, barebones, animalistic emotion. It's time to evolve. When dealing with the Semblers, the Newtons and others of similar atrocities, we arn't dealing with idiots, and they do not present themselves as such. Act in anger at a protest, show your rage at a well funded/guarded function for the Sembler clan and you will be in the back seat of a cruiser in minutes, and you have accomplished nothing. Present facts, dates, instances without anger and a crowd will gather around you to listen...I have seen it happen more than once at various protests.

Make fun, riddicule me if ya want....I can take it, I have much experience at it....I went thru Straight Inc. as well. I wont deny that I wont be effected, after all, that is the intent...it's effective....it was learned in Straight Inc. I consider it to be Straight behaviour to condem, riddicule and to show utter contempt to the idea of forgiveness...I see it as still acting on the training recieved from Straight Inc., still acting as one of thier minions. Good luck with that!

Genuinely I wish
Much Healing
In Peace
woof

[Anonymous]

I think forgiveness is like sayin, "OK. So be it."  Or in some way a resurrection of the spirit of the present over the past.

It was never that personal to me, maybe I was detached somehow.  The anger I had toward certain individuals who were on staff has mostly dissipated.  I only carried that kind of personal anger for a few years following the program, mostly I was deeply confused by the dichotomy between the America of libertarian and democratic ideals, I'd been raised to believe in, and the America I was living in as a newcomer on front row.  Deeply disillusioned by all the lies I'd been told.  Disrespected to my core.  Foresaken and betrayed.  Perhaps I'm wiser, if not stronger for it now.

To forgives one's self though, for the injustices committed in order to get along.  I think that's the hard part.

$tr8 just reveals how fucked up and twisted the system is.  I mean, that's the level of oppression the establishment is willing to subject it's own citizens to in order to maintain themselves.

De-centralize the economy.