Victims list update

[TheWho]

Not so fast, 1 death is too many but if the program has a suicide and the local school district has had many then the program would be considered a safer place.  So just running a list of names is meaningless.  How many names do we need to show that programs are unsafe?  Then we need to factor in that the local school district is random where the kids in program are a select group.  So programs would be expected to have a higher rate of suicide or attempts.  Maybe this is true maybe not?

[Anonymous]

Not so fast, 1 death is too many but if the program has a suicide and the local school district has had many then the program would be considered a safer place. So just running a list of names is meaningless. How many names do we need to show that programs are unsafe? Then we need to factor in that the local school district is random where the kids in program are a select group. So programs would be expected to have a higher rate of suicide or attempts. Maybe this is true maybe not?"

Why don't you just bring up that hokey fraudulent little table once again, boy. Its been a while, and we know you just can't help yourself.

[Anonymous]

Not so fast, 1 death is too many but if the program has a suicide and the local school district has had many then the program would be considered a safer place.  So just running a list of names is meaningless.  How many names do we need to show that programs are unsafe?  Then we need to factor in that the local school district is random where the kids in program are a select group.  So programs would be expected to have a higher rate of suicide or attempts.  Maybe this is true maybe not?

It would be great comparing the # of kids who kill themselves due to induced mental illness and deliberately induced social margalinization to the # of suicides in kids from public schools, or even psychiatric hospitals. You will see a rate easily 2,000 times higher in victims of the American Gulags

[TheWho]

Not so fast, 1 death is too many but if the program has a suicide and the local school district has had many then the program would be considered a safer place.  So just running a list of names is meaningless.  How many names do we need to show that programs are unsafe?  Then we need to factor in that the local school district is random where the kids in program are a select group.  So programs would be expected to have a higher rate of suicide or attempts.  Maybe this is true maybe not?

It would be great comparing the # of kids who kill themselves due to induced mental illness and deliberately induced social margalinization to the # of suicides in kids from public schools, or even psychiatric hospitals. You will see a rate easily 2,000 times higher in victims of the American Gulags

It would be.  each category could be defined, social marginalization, bullying, history of mental illness in family, induced by teacher/staff, depression meds, program, private school, abused at home etc.

[Anonymous]

Not so fast, 1 death is too many but if the program has a suicide and the local school district has had many then the program would be considered a safer place.  So just running a list of names is meaningless.  How many names do we need to show that programs are unsafe?  Then we need to factor in that the local school district is random where the kids in program are a select group.  So programs would be expected to have a higher rate of suicide or attempts.  Maybe this is true maybe not?

the # of suicides in kids from public schools, or even psychiatric hospitals. You will see a rate easily 2,000 times higher in victims of the American Gulags

It would be.  each category could be defined, social marginalization, bullying, history of mental illness in family, induced by teacher/staff, depression meds, program, private school, abused at home etc.

Let me correctively specify I meant "It would be great comparing the # of kids who kill themselves due to induced mental illness and deliberately induced social margalinization" by the American Gulags.

Its easy to say why someone killed themself if they were in a Gulag like CEDU or Elan. It would be harder to determine why kids commit suicide when they are not in these institutions. Abusive parents rarely say that they were abusive, and even kid's suicide notes aren't always reliable because they are often reflections of their induced self-hatred and appeals for love based on what they think people want to hear

[Anonymous]

Look at all the kids who take their own lives who had parents who never did anything to try to help them, if we don’t have sympathy for those program parents we should deffinately not have any for those parents who do nothing.

Bullshit.  Doing nothing is far less dangerous than sending a kid to a re-education camp.  


I thought shoving my daughter off a cliff might keep her from taking drugs, so I pushed her.  At least I tried, right?
 

[Anonymous]

:agree:

[TheWho]

Its easy to say why someone killed themself if they were in a Gulag like CEDU or Elan. It would be harder to determine why kids commit suicide when they are not in these institutions. Abusive parents rarely say that they were abusive, and even kid's suicide notes aren't always reliable because they are often reflections of their induced self-hatred and appeals for love based on what they think people want to hear

I see what you are saying and there lies the problem.  How do we compare the number of suicides in and out of program?  We cant rely on staff, parents or kids notes to understand why because they may be lying or not have a clear understanding of the child so the results would be unclear.

[Anonymous]

Its easy to say why someone killed themself if they were in a Gulag like CEDU or Elan. It would be harder to determine why kids commit suicide when they are not in these institutions. Abusive parents rarely say that they were abusive, and even kid's suicide notes aren't always reliable because they are often reflections of their induced self-hatred and appeals for love based on what they think people want to hear

I see what you are saying and there lies the problem.  How do we compare the number of suicides in and out of program?  We cant rely on staff, parents or kids notes to understand why because they may be lying or not have a clear understanding of the child so the results would be unclear.

Comparing suicide/death rates in public schools/kids on the outside with suicide rates during and post residential treatment is apples and oranges.  Programees love to use the comparison of public school deaths vs. program deaths because they can present numbers without explaining the difference in population of the two groups, with the free kids in public schools greatly outnumbering those in institutions.   Percentages based on the population of each group would offer (somewhat) more valid info and the results would cause programees to never use this ridiculous argument again.  Parents pay out obscene amounts and often sign custody over to programs for the explicit purpose of saving their child from "death or jail".  Unlike public school kids, kids in programs are supposed to be under constant supervision.  Why?  Because parents are paying the programs to keep the kid safe and away from the hazards causing problems on the outside.  Public schools don't have enough people or resources to provide constant supervision during school, and after school it's the parents' task to oversee their children.  How many programs claim a low staff-to-patient ratio to encourage parents to believe their child is constantly monitored?  Try this:  call a random program and talk to admissions.  Ask if the program will be a safer environment for your child than public school.  Bet any program will tell you "yes", so these tiresome comparisons of public schools vs. private programs don't have any validity.  

Don't believe some stranger with dubious credentials in an RTC telling you your child is lying.  Who knows your kid better, you or the quack?  Not reporting your child's allegations of abuse is a crime, regardless of what the program says about "manipulation".   Parents should be held accountable for criminal failure to report child abuse - so should the programs.

[Anonymous]

I see what you are saying and there lies the problem.  How do we compare the number of suicides in and out of program?  We cant rely on staff, parents or kids notes to understand why because they may be lying or not have a clear understanding of the child so the results would be unclear.

We've heard this same line of "reasoning" so many times before...

Why is Hooter so obsessed with the Victim's List?

[Anonymous]

Dance monkeys, DANCE!

[Anonymous]

Dance monkeys, DANCE!

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:    :agree:  :rocker:  :rofl:  :jerry:  :beat:  :beat:  :feedtrolls:   :roflmao:  :tup: :tup:

[Oscar]

Rotsne has the flu, so I went looking for data about Jerry McLaurin, who died November 2, 1999.

Instead our search found records of a death not on the list:

Look at this case, which is called:

SUSIE LEMOINE, ON BEHALF OF ANDREW EST. OF LEMOINE, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ESTATE OF ANDREW LEMOINE, DECEASED, PLAINTIFF-APPELLEE,
v.
NEW HORIZONS RANCH AND CENTER, INC., ET AL., DEFENDANTS, PAUL SCOTT; KELLY HUTCHINSON; AND WAYNE HAIRGROVE, DEFENDANTS-APPELLANTS

Does this case qualify for the list?

http://http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/174/629/518999/

[Anonymous]

What if I were to suggest that the ones who were killed, were the lucky ones. How does that statement make you feel? Please think about it for a few minutes before answering.

[firstresponder]

What if I were to suggest that the ones who were killed, were the lucky ones. How does that statement make you feel? Please think about it for a few minutes before answering.

as much as i hate to say it i agree. when the girl killed herself at TB when i was there the only thing i could think of was that at least she no longer had to deal with the pain and suffering that TB gave everyone.