Author Topic: Victims list update  (Read 5557 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2009, 09:07:42 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "another guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "St. Peter"
^^^^ Now here is a real responsible program parent! Kid is dealing with mental illness for years and they send him to program. I take it that didn't work out too well. You have my condolences.
So you see if you were not aware of this you would have blamed the program for this child death when it may be caused by a genetic history.  I believe you have good intentions but you cannot make assumptions.

What kind of parents would send a child to a program, knowing he was mentally unstable? I would blame the program and the parents.
So now we can blame the parents and the school.  If we were a group who disapproved of psychiatry then we could blame the doctor who prescribed the antidepressants or the boyfriend/girlfriend who wrote the letter saying they wanted to break up or the friend in group who called them out on their homosexuality.  Maybe the grandparents for passing down the gene which predisposed the poor child and wrote the death sentence to begin with.
oh for godsakes this is ridiculous. do you people ever get tired of trolling fornits? We get it you LOVE programs. You make LOTS of money off of them. What is your purpose in coming here? Just to screw with our heads a tiny pit more after destroying our souls? Want to hurt one more CEDU survivor one more time, for the memories?

"programs" torture and brainwash the "poor child" after abducting and imprisoning the “poor child” without due process or habeas corpus. They cause or are a causative factor in the "poor child's suicide" whatever his or her genetic history.

The agenda is showing enough respect for the kid not to let their MURDER be overlooked and hold the MURDERERS accountable a tiny way.
Ah, Yes, We are a “program” hate site, so the “anti psychiatrists” or “parent haters” cant have his/her corpse this time.  We can blame the program for not screening their calls and letters properly and allowing that one letter to get thru which told the kid of the news of the break up of the parents marriage by and uncle or the girlfriend who was unfaithful and wanted to break-up.  Maybe blame the staff for missing that one letter that got thru which contained some ecstasy which turned out to be a not-so-good combination with the prescribed anti-depressants.  Or the unscreened letter from uncle Mel who threatened to expose the kids homosexuality if he ever mentions a word to anyone while in program.  Should we all sue the program for not properly screening the kids calls and letters?
Why did that child take his/hers own life?  Do we know?  How can we better protect the next child?  Blame the parents?  The grandparents for passing along the gene?  Blame the staff for caving in and giving the kid an unscreened letter or phone call?  Should he be fired or put in jail?  What should a parent do?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2009, 09:11:55 PM »
9/10
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

  • Global Moderator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
  • Karma: +11/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2009, 11:46:35 PM »
9/10 just doesn't say it like your troll-o-meter used to say it.

I'll confess.. i miss that thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline firstresponder

  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2009, 02:37:55 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Know better about what?  They may have a child who took their own life and sometimes this is very painful, a problem they had been dealing with for years or mental illness that runs in the family and not something the family wants all over the internet.


considering most programs say that if the child has a mental illness they are disqualified from the program (most of the contracts that i have read have this Claus) than it is bad parenting. read what you sign and maybe the child would still be alive.

from enrolment forum to spring creek lodge.

"As a result, the Sponsors understand that the Spring Creek Lodge Academy is not recommended or equipped to
provide services for students that are: suicidal, psychotic, violent, assaultive, diabetic, schizophrenic,
borderline personality disorder, severely dyslexic, illiterate, highly depressed, or have very low IQ,
serious health problems, traumatic brain injury or any significant behavior, mental or emotional
problems"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
trained to save you ass not kiss it.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2009, 03:09:38 AM »
Yeah... but on the flip side, how many kids did you know who were not suicidal before program but became suicidal in program?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline firstresponder

  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2009, 07:29:18 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Yeah... but on the flip side, how many kids did you know who were not suicidal before program but became suicidal in program?

true. and here again if they had trained staff to spot the signs of a suicidal child than the child would have to be removed from the program. and any one should know that if someone says they intend to harm themselves (such as letters home, telling staff, etc...) it should be taken as fact until proven otherwise. so here again unqualified staff is one of the problems, as well as parents not listening to their child. that is why i have little sympathy for the parents who lost their child. had they listened to the child and what they were saying in their letters they would still be here.

the contract clearly states suicidal tendency are a reason not to have the child there and if the child says it in a letter it is a suicidal tendency and reason for the program, let alone the parent, to remove the student.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
trained to save you ass not kiss it.

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2009, 07:55:48 AM »
You can point a finger at the parents or staff or program but at least they tried to get the kid some help.  Maybe it was the wrong help or did not work but they cared.  Look at all the kids who take their own lives who had parents who never did anything to try to help them, if we don’t have sympathy for those program parents we should deffinately not have any for those parents who do nothing.  Programs could hold these photos and lists up to parents and say this is what happens if you turn your back on your child and not listen to the warning signs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2009, 08:45:09 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Yeah... but on the flip side, how many kids did you know who were not suicidal before program but became suicidal in program?

Well, ME, for one.. But then, I started my introduction to the wonderful world of programs at age 14. Perhaps such latent desires for self-destruction had not manifested themselves yet.

But seriously, it was programs that killed my hope for the future, and it was what happened to me in a program that caused me to to attempt suicide a few years after I was out. I doubt I would have felt that same degree of desperation otherwise. Public schools just don't practice victimization and then brainwashing to cover their tracks like programs do. They just don't have that ideology organized, even if one particular depraved person happens to be that way.

Programs turned out to be a very unsafe place in my case.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2009, 08:57:54 AM »
Yeah, you nailed it.  It is elusive and individualized.  Some kids go down hill after entering program and others don’t survive very long being victimized in a public school setting.  The people overseeing these kids need to better read the warning signs or get better training.  Suicide is a problem nationally, not just a program issue.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline firstresponder

  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2009, 09:51:54 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
You can point a finger at the parents or staff or program but at least they tried to get the kid some help.  Maybe it was the wrong help or did not work but they cared.  Look at all the kids who take their own lives who had parents who never did anything to try to help them, if we don’t have sympathy for those program parents we should deffinately not have any for those parents who do nothing.  Programs could hold these photos and lists up to parents and say this is what happens if you turn your back on your child and not listen to the warning signs.


or the parent could have helped the child through AMA certified programs and not back woods snake oil programs. sure dont listen to what medical professionals say. go with an off the wall program.

http://www.grmc.com/adam/Health%20Illus ... /1/001537/

Oppositional defiant disorder
Definition

Oppositional defiant disorder is a pattern of disobedient, hostile, and defiant behavior toward authority figures. To fit this diagnosis, the pattern must persist for at least 6 months and must go beyond the bounds of normal childhood misbehavior.
Causes

This disorder is more prevalent in boys than girls. Some studies have shown that 20% of the school-age population is affected. However, most experts believe this figure is inflated due to changing cultural definitions of normal childhood behavior, and other possible biases including racial, cultural, and gender biases.

This behavior typically starts by age 8. The cause of this disorder is unknown, and may be due to a combination of biology and parenting or environmental factors.
Symptoms

* Arguing with adults
* Loss of temper
* Angry and resentful of others
* Actively defies adults' requests
* Spiteful or vindictive behavior
* Blames others for own mistakes
* Is touchy or easily annoyed
* Few or no friends or loss of previous friends
* Constant trouble in school

Exams and Tests

The pattern of behaviors must be distinguished from what is commonly observed in other children of similar age and developmental level, and must result in significant social or academic problems.

Evaluation by a psychiatrist or psychologist may be recommended. In children and adolescents, depression and attention-deficit /hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) may cause similar disturbances in behavior, and should be considered as alternate or additional diagnoses.
Treatment

The best treatment for the child is individual psychotherapy. The parents should also learn behavioral management skills. Medication may be helpful if the behaviors occur in the course of another condition (such as depression, childhood psychosis, or ADHD).

Punitive treatments like boot camps and "behavioral modification" schools which restrict contact with parents, and place the child among other disturbed children, can do more harm than good.
Outlook (Prognosis)

The outcome varies. Some children respond well to treatment.
Possible Complications

In a significant proportion of cases, the adult condition of conduct disorder can be traced back to the presence of oppositional defiant disorder in childhood.
When to Contact a Medical Professional

Call your health care provider if you have concerns about your child's development or behavior.
Prevention

Consistency in rules and fair consequences should be practiced in the child's home. Punishments should not be overly harsh or inconsistently applied.

Appropriate behaviors should be modeled by the adults in the household. Abuse and neglect increase the chances that this condition will occur.


and here is another one

http://www.yourhealthconnection.com/topic/adam1000919


Definition

Conduct disorder, a disorder of childhood and adolescence, involves chronic behavior problems, such as defiant, impulsive, or antisocial behavior; drug use; or criminal activity.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Conduct disorder has been associated with family conflicts, child abuse, poverty, genetic defects, and parental drug addiction or alcoholism. The diagnosis is more common among boys and is estimated to be as high as 10%.

However, because many of the qualities necessary to make the diagnosis (such as "defiance" and "rule breaking") can be subjective, it is hard to know how common the disorder really is. For accurate diagnosis, the behavior must be far more extreme than simple adolescent rebellion or boyish exuberance.

Conduct disorder is often associated with attention-deficit disorder, and the two together carry a major risk for alcohol and/or other drug dependence.

Children with conduct disorder tend to be impulsive, difficult to control, and unconcerned about the feelings of others.

Symptoms

* Cruel or aggressive behavior toward people and animals
* Destruction of property, including fire setting
* Lying, truancy, running away
* Vandalism, theft
* Heavy drinking and/or heavy illicit drug use
* Breaking rules without apparent reason
* Antisocial behaviors, such as bullying and fighting

Signs and tests

Some of the common signs of conduct disorder are bullying, fighting and staying out at night without concern for curfew or other limits. These children often make no effort to hide their aggressive behaviors and have difficulty making close friends. The diagnosis is made on the basis of a history of these kinds of behaviors.

Treatment

Successful treatment requires close involvement of the child's family. Parents can learn techniques to help manage their child's problem behavior. In cases of abuse, the child may need to be removed from the family and placed in a less chaotic environment. Treatment with medications or talk therapy may be used for depression and attention-deficit disorder, which commonly accompany conduct disorder.

Many "behavioral modification" schools, "wilderness programs," and "boot camps" are sold to parents as solutions for conduct disorder. These may use a form of "attack therapy" or "confrontation," which can actually be harmful. There is no research support for such techniques. Research suggests that treating children at home, along with their families, is more effective.

If you are considering an inpatient program, be sure to check it out thoroughly. Serious injuries and deaths have been associated with some programs, which are not regulated in many states.

Expectations (prognosis)

Children who have severe or frequent symptoms tend to have the poorest prognosis. Expectations are also worse for those who have other illnesses such as mood and drug abuse disorders.

Complications

Children with conduct disorder may go on to develop personality disorders as adults, particularly antisocial personality disorder. As their behaviors worsen, these individuals may also develop significant drug and legal problems.

Calling your health care provider

See your health care provider if your child seems to be overly aggressive, is bullying others, is being victimized, or continually gets in trouble. Early treatment may help.

Prevention

The sooner the treatment for conduct disorder is started, the more likely the child will learn adaptive behaviors and prevent some of the potential complications.

Review date: 11/15/2006

Reviewed By: Paul Ballas, D.O., Department of Psychiatry, Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, Philadelphia, PA. Review provided by VeriMed Healthcare Network.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
trained to save you ass not kiss it.

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2009, 09:59:58 AM »
Many (but not all) "behavioral modification" schools, "wilderness programs," and "boot camps" are sold to parents as solutions for conduct disorder. These may (or may not) use a form of "attack therapy" or "confrontation," which can (but not always) actually be harmful. There is no research support for such techniques. Research suggests that treating children at home, along with their families, is more effective.
When treatment at home fails then parents are encouraged not to give up on their child and to start thinking about treatment outside of the home.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2009, 10:39:49 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Many (but not all) "behavioral modification" schools, "wilderness programs," and "boot camps" are sold to parents as solutions for conduct disorder. These may (or may not) use a form of "attack therapy" or "confrontation," which can (but not always) actually be harmful. There is no research support for such techniques. Research suggests that treating children at home, along with their families, is more effective.
When treatment at home fails then parents are encouraged not to give up on their child and to start thinking about treatment outside of the home.
Shut your goddam piehole! Let's start thinking about treatment for YOU!!!  :twofinger:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oscar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1650
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Secret Prisons for Teens
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2009, 10:44:07 AM »
Bullying and other issues, which may cause students to fail in the ordinary school settings are issues the schools should fight instead of expelling the students becoming victims of it. The crown princess in Denmark is the front figure in a national campaign against bullying in the public school system here in Denmark.

If I take the local school my kids are attending, they have:

1) Educated students in form 8 and 9 educated in crisis management between students. They carry orange vests and negociate peace when students turn to fight so the teachers can use the time to do what they are paid for - to teach!
2) Every school as of 2008 are required to have 3 teachers in the socalled Activity-contact-comfort unit. It is a unit which takes of the social environment inside the school system. Are the parents happy? Do they know each other? Are the students happy?

If a student gets out of control, they dont call the police unless we are talking students above 15 years of age. They can be sent home and the parents can be informed. Also truancy and runaway children are not something the child is punished for by the system. The parents can get a fine but thats it. Education is a gift. If people won't take an education. (20 percent aged 18 have not), they can get a McJob career. We have a education system for adults who realize their mistake when they grow up they can attend in the evening. They are offering all forms down to 6. It is quite common for middle aged people with Dyslexia to receive education while they are adults because they were regarded unruly in their childhood. Now where we know what the problem is, they can get the education they were cheated from.

Then there is the medication. I believe that a lot of behavior problems is caused by overmedication. In Denmark the percentage of the population on medication is only 1/10 of the States. ADHD is rarely treated before school because we have the wood kindergartens. A voilent pre-school kid would end up being send to this ourdoor daycare where stress is low.

We have our continuation school which is close to your TBS. They are less restricted and often the students have cell phones. When I drive to our department in Jutland, I can observe a group of teens standing on a hill nearby because it is the only place near the school they can get a signal. Often a teacher is also standing in the same spot trying to phone privately.

We have 7 closed TBS's where there is room for 191 "students". People have to commit a crime to be there. I have a link to one of them here.

We know that people become institutionalized when they are being kept in a boarding school or in a TBS. That's why it is avoided as much as possible. People may not die in a TBS, but there is huge risk of them failing returning to society regardless of how wellrun the TBS is. The aftercare process are even more important than the treatment given during a stay.

Thats why we choosed to look for deaths after leaving a TBS. This area is ignored. Look at this thread about a 17 year old girl. Now she only functions well inside a jail after 3 stays at RTC's.

Bottom line - my point is: If there is problems with the ordinary school, the ordinary school system has to change. However, that's not what we are dealing with on this board.

If a decent un-programming system has to be be established in order to save lives, we have to chart the deaths so we can see how huge the problem is. That's a valid reason for the death lists. And don't think that that the parents are not covered with grief due to the death of their child. I bet that they are ready to pay whatever money they have just to be able to turn the clock back and choose otherwise. Unfortunately it can not be done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2009, 10:50:57 AM »
Yeah, but what's your point?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Victims list update
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"

If a decent un-programming system has to be be established in order to save lives, we have to chart the deaths so we can see how huge the problem is. That's a valid reason for the death lists. And don't think that that the parents are not covered with grief due to the death of their child. I bet that they are ready to pay whatever money they have just to be able to turn the clock back and choose otherwise. Unfortunately it can not be done.
I believe this too.  If just a list of kids deaths is developed we would never know how large of a problem it is.  Your idea of charting is a good one so it can be compared to non programs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »