Author Topic: agent provocateurs among us  (Read 1726 times)

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Offline psy

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2009, 11:18:42 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
BUT I must point out that rarely do you come across an ex detainee that claims that these abusive tactics didn't exist

It's important, though, to phrase the question correctly.  If you ask: "were kids abused", the answer is likely to be "no".  If you ask "were kids encouraged to verballly or physically attack each other"... or "were kids locked up in isolation rooms for extended periods of time" or "did this type of restraint happen" or "did the program lie to you or your parents" and so on and so forth.  Ask for specifics, and you'll find the accounts of what goes on in programs is pretty much uniform.  Abuse can be reframed as "therapy" or "help" if a person has no other concept in his head of what "therapy" or "help" is.

I recommend you (the guest) read a book or watch a video such as this one on cults to educate yourself in how this reframing process works.

http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csjvideorevi ... iew112.htm

If you still don't get how programs can work, I recommend you rent or buy "Over the GW".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline Che Gookin

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2009, 11:44:36 PM »
Most kids who claim they weren't abused will, with the right sort of questions, tell you all about how they saw someone else abused. That is why I try to remind myself to not to get to focused on the whole terminology of, "The program saved me, I'd be dead, I'd.. I'd.. I'd.. be snorting crack up my ass with a straw today it wasn't for the program." By ignoring that and getting the person to answer specific questions about the program.. Starting with general day to day routine questions you can learn all sorts of crazy shit.

I used to have an interview up about a girl who did a stint at SUWs. She was absolutely convinced that the program saved her. I ignored all of that and in the space of about 10 questions found out that SUWs of Carolinas had a shitty success rate and they did strip searches during their admissions process. All from a girl who still to this day believes SUWs saved her. I talk to her every now and then on yahoo and she still praises SUWs. I can't say I care.. She can feel the way she wants to feel. It's up to her.. I suspect that she'll put the pieces of the puzzle together once she graduates high school and moves out on her own. It's a whole lot easier to say SUWs sucks when your mom and dad can't send you back for a "tune up".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2009, 06:17:02 PM »
These are the fundamental questions that teens arrive at on their own, often while they are still in the programs.
An individual's impression of events as they unfold help to tell the story up to any given point. People are complex and come up with all sorts of reasons to explain how they could wind up in any of their given circumstances. They may blame a mother, a father, the fact they were adopted, a step parent, a real life physical or sexual abuse incident or relationship, anything including themselves.
     The programs' function is to exploit these causes and create a faux bond with the child that is through repeated coercive tactics rewarded for bonding with the program and staying put (the parent's wish).
There is much at play in the mind of an adolescent who has been sent to a facility that bills itself in the way behavior modification schools, or troubled teen bootcamp type places do. Things twist in his head, and there are all sorts of reasons why they may not spend the time and energy diving back into the most troublesome and powerless time of their lives ten years later...you see what I'm saying?

People are harmed when you make them do and say and think things that are contrary to their own individual nature. Many become accustomed to discomfort and think it's the norm, you need to take so many things into consideration in the broad swipe of whether these programs do good or harm or both. Situationally speaking, the parents and existing system has already failed these kids. Why should the step which often fundamentally changes (damages. I'll say it again: damages) some kids forever really be any different?
 :boycott:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 06:22:48 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Most kids who claim they weren't abused will, with the right sort of questions, tell you all about how they saw someone else abused. That is why I try to remind myself to not to get to focused on the whole terminology of, "The program saved me, I'd be dead, I'd.. I'd.. I'd.. be snorting crack up my ass with a straw today it wasn't for the program." By ignoring that and getting the person to answer specific questions about the program.. Starting with general day to day routine questions you can learn all sorts of crazy shit.

I used to have an interview up about a girl who did a stint at SUWs. She was absolutely convinced that the program saved her. I ignored all of that and in the space of about 10 questions found out that SUWs of Carolinas had a shitty success rate and they did strip searches during their admissions process. All from a girl who still to this day believes SUWs saved her. I talk to her every now and then on yahoo and she still praises SUWs. I can't say I care.. She can feel the way she wants to feel. It's up to her.. I suspect that she'll put the pieces of the puzzle together once she graduates high school and moves out on her own. It's a whole lot easier to say SUWs sucks when your mom and dad can't send you back for a "tune up".


Che, the Survivor Whisperer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline wdtony

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 10:24:46 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway...  :D

Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I don't read it!
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Offline psy

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 10:36:24 PM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
Quote from: "Ursus"
hahaha... what a riot! I think I'll just go back to posting my usual boring shit, which no one generally responds to anyway...  :D

Just because I don't respond doesn't mean I don't read it!
Same here.  I always read Ursus's stuff, even though I might not always respond.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 11:27:45 PM »
Ursus, rest be assured, I always read the first two inches. The question remains.. Horizontally or vertically? :NINJA:
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Offline Ursus

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Re: agent provocateurs among us
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2009, 01:27:27 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
The insanity here must be contagious. There are only a handful of people who ever find and read this forum. Even less take it seriously enough to come back and post on a regular basis. This industry has dealt with tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of youths. Where are they? Most people have internet access now. You really got to wonder, if programs were as abusive and torturous as some here claim why wouldn't there be more people posting about it? As far as I can tell, the anti program "movement" is a half dozen people with different websites and acronyms which accomplish nothing other than online bantering. This small core group of "activists" can't even get along for more than 5  minutes, your cause is hopeless if that is any indication. So where are they? Where are all these kids who have been abused? The dramatizations and stories here don't match up with the reality, because if it were true then there would be hundreds of you guys protesting outside of programs.

Where are these silent survivors? Proving Solomon Asch's experiments on social conformity CORRECT. The noise of the crowd affects the way one perceives the situation, even to the point of preferring to be wrong rather than go against the status quo.

Funny thing is, they're still reading fornits... Go figure. The read numbers on threads vastly exceeds the posting activity. They're probably thinking about what they read, as well.

Asch's experiments also showed that when even one member of the group broke rank and opted for the correct answer, it drastically reduced the propensity for others to conform to an incorrect status quo.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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