Perception Vs. Reality

[psy]

in a series of classic experiements done in the early 1950s by Solomon Asch.155

Various numbers of people in a room were given the job of determining which of two lines was longest even though one was obviously longer than the other. Each participant gave his answer in turn. This would be repeated several times. The catch was that all but the last to announce were confederates of the experimenter. They would all either give the right answer or all give the wrong answer. The purpose of the experiments were to determine the effect on the last person.

Only one in four of the subjects manged to remain independent and give the correct answer every time, even though the answer was obvious. Some of those who answered incorrectly were “just going along,” but some actually believed the obviously incorrect answers they gave were correct. Every one of them, even the ones who managed to stay independent, began to doubt their own perceptions.

The effect of the majority's unanimity was to create distrust of one's own perception. In the vast majority of cases it also changed the subject's behavior. In the more extreme cases, it actually altered the person's perceptions.

[source]

[psy]

Follow that out to this:

One of the most potent forces of mind control is the subtle coercion of public statements. The first statement elicited publicly from the newcomer is, “I am an alcoholic.” Depending on the structure of the meeting attended, it may be said at the very first meeting with little or no thought given to the implications. In some meetings, everyone in the room takes turns introducing themsleves by their first name and “disease.” Perhaps 25 or 50 people will identify themselves uniformly with their first name and “I am an alcoholic.” Then it is up to the pigeon. If he doesn't want to stand out, there is only one choice: to say “I am an alcoholic.” He may have his own idea of what an alcoholic is and feel comfortable stating he is “an alcoholic.” In mind control cults there is rarely if ever any physical coercion. Situations are staged so that people choose “on their own” either the desired course or from only desired options. The pigeon has the option of merely stating his first name. At this point, even this may be desirable for indoctrination purposes. He may then wonder what he is doing there and whether he is suffering “denial.”

Often, out of deference to the room full of friendly faces gazing at him, he will splutter in embarrassment, “I guess I am an alcoholic.” All groupers smile knowingly and affectionately. They understand that this is a milestone in his “recovery.” The pigeon has no idea.

This public admission of being an alcoholic, whether the newcomer knows it yet or not, is the beginning of the acceptance of the authority of AA. Since he is an alcoholic, and has publicly acknowledged himself as such, he must defer to the unanimous opinion of the experts on alcoholism gathered about him for defining who he is. In AA, by definition, an alcoholic is someone who must work the Steps and follow other “suggestions” or die.

“Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant. ... We must obey certain principles, or we die.”158

A newcomer would reject out of hand being told that if he didn't work the Steps he would probably die. To get by this, groupers continuously acknowledge the Steps as “suggestive only.” They then proceed to tell how they nearly died or how others died because their diseased minds told them they didn't need to work the steps. Another way the newcomer becomes afraid to not work the steps is through sincere, genuine fear expressed by the elders through body language. For example, if a newcomer says in casual conversation that he doesn't need the Steps, he's staying sober just fine without them, the groupers will fall silent. Bodies stiffen. All eyes, filled with fear, apprehension or disapproval, will focus on the newcomer. Without verbally contradicting the newcomer, the message is given. Once the message has been non verbally transmitted, the ice may be broken by an elder reminding everyone, “Like the Big Book says, the Steps are but suggestive only.” This is a reminder to the groupers of the Big Book injunction against “preaching” and other forms of open coercion. It is also ostensibly support for the newcomer's position. Everyone knows the Steps are suggestive only. No one has to do anything they don't want to in AA. While the newcomer gets verbal “defense” for not working the Steps, he is alos reminded it is a suggestion. He knows that, as a suggestion, it is the opinion of the unanimous majority that if he continues to be obstinate in not following it, he is “signing his own death warrant.”

In adapting to his new “social circle,” the newcomer learns which comments bring approval and which bring disapproval. People are so kind, friendly and understanding, it is, at the very least, impolite to upset them. The only way to avoid this is to agree. One quickly learns to at least express, if not quite believe, only acceptable ideas.

[wdtony]

Great post.

Reminds me of the parent groups in programs. This is a very good explanation for the beginning parent-group behavior because almost all of the "veteran" program parents are dedicated to the fallacies of the program's doctrine. This peer pressure is a huge force, especially when the new parents are having doubts due to their gut instinct or strange program activities or ways. The program simply alters the way they perceive reality within the program. This is definitely an intrical part of controlling the "worker bee" parents in the program (cult).
 
On topic links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_confo ... xperiments
 
http://www.zainea.com/socialconformity.htm

[Miss Antsy Pam]

Psy and I have had more than one discussion regarding the evils of AA/NA.  Although we may not agree with each other on many aspects of 12 step programs, I DO feel they can be beneficial to a person struggling with some form of addiction, especially in the beginning when a person, who has already "self-determined" that they are an alcoholic or addict.  Is there an overwhelming amount of peer pressure at meetings...yes!  Some of the pressure is non-verbal as Psy describes and some pressure comes from very vocal members of any given meeting.  For the newcomer, everyone in the room is focused on them, the newcomers, eager for them to declare that, "They are powerless over alcohol and their lives have become unmanageable" (step one).  They consider getting someone to admit they are alcoholic or an addict a huge success!

Personally, I  find that many/most meetings conform to the very tenets that were written in the Big Book of AA back in 1953.  Rarely do you find a "pure alcoholic" anywhere around where I live. Most of the people I have meet in AA, IMHO, are all multi-taskers and include addicts, workaholics, sexaholics, shopaholics, etc.  For me, the substance of choice does not remove the "ism" part of the disease.  I am also a firm believer in self diagnosis when it come to alcoholism or addiction - NO ONE decides for you that you are an addict or alcoholic.  

I do not attend meetings much anymore and I have not had a drink in 13 years.  However, I attended DAILY meetings during my first 3 years of sobriety...it gave me a design for living that I have modified to fit the way I CHOOSE to live my life.  More on this topic later...have to be somewhere else soon!

[psy]

Yes, but you would also be considered an apostate by the cult-like organization in question.  They would likely tell newcomers that you are the sort of person that others should not hang around.  Amirite?

[psy]

Most of the people I have meet in AA, IMHO, are all multi-taskers and include addicts, workaholics, sexaholics, shopaholics, etc.  For me, the substance of choice does not remove the "ism" part of the disease.

For me it just makes the disease concept sound all the more absurd.  It sounds like if somebody does anything too much you can add an -aholic suffix and label it a "disease".

[Antigen]

That's pretty much what's going on, Psy. I think they even have meetings for net-aholics. That was the joke behind Anonymity Anonymous and yes I have had a journalist call me up asking for meeting dates and locations. I should have said April 1st and given the address of the local Shriners club right next door to an AA hall (church of the magic 8 ball) but I guess I was out of sorts that day and didn't think of it till later.

That social pressure thing has given me holy hell all of my life. As a young child, I had to go to school and live in what had been my neighborhood totally shunned by and shunning everyone around me and act like I loved it, was superior and wasn't bothered by the teasing, bullying and rejection one itty little bit. Nope, not me! I was a Super Seedling! The littlest 'Chicklet'! I had the keys to the universe!

Then there was the Program proper for a couple of years. I tell ya, I'm so thoroughly horrified by conformity that I can't play the game well enough to fit in anywhere. I honestly loathe damned near everyone around me on some back channel just about all the time because they do conform. It's more than I can do most of the time to hide my contempt. Makes for a very lonely existence.

[Anonymous]

I dont understnd why the AA thing is even an issue. If an adult chooses to join a cult, club or crazy organisation and they claim it is working for them or they are getting something out of it then all power to them. If it is not,they can walk away at any time, even if it is a cult. This is entirely different to incarcerating a defenceless kid without trial, or sentencing a young person to a attend an institution like a boot camp that practices cruel and unusual punishment. One is a legitimate human rights issue the other is a lifestyle choice.

[dishdutyfugitive]

You understand the concept of a "Family Tree" - I hope.

[Ursus]

I dont understnd why the AA thing is even an issue. If an adult chooses to join a cult, club or crazy organisation and they claim it is working for them or they are getting something out of it then all power to them. If it is not,they can walk away at any time, even if it is a cult. This is entirely different to incarcerating a defenceless kid without trial, or sentencing a young person to a attend an institution like a boot camp that practices cruel and unusual punishment. One is a legitimate human rights issue the other is a lifestyle choice.

In your criteria of what constitutes the TTI, hopefully incomplete, you include:

• "incarcerating a defenceless kid without trial"
• "sentencing a young person to a attend an institution like a boot camp that practices cruel and unusual punishment"

Conspicuously absent from that list is any mention of what might approximate as the concept of "Mind Fuck."

Did you really mean to omit that?

Or do you truly believe that only physical coercion can qualify as torment, and that experiences of emotional or thought coercion (often referred to as "brainwashing") are merely "lifestyle choices?"

I think that most people have found that that last type of coercion has resulted in the greatest and longest lasting trauma post-program. I cannot speak for everyone, of course, but that is my impression and my personal experience.

Pretty much all of the programs in the TTI owe a partial debt either directly or indirectly to Alcoholics Anonymous for philosophy and/or methodology. That is why it tends to be rather reviled by some of the denizens around here.

[Miss Antsy Pam]

Yes, but you would also be considered an apostate by the cult-like organization in question.  They would likely tell newcomers that you are the sort of person that others should not hang around.  Amirite?

But Psy, I AM an apostate!  I AM also the type of person that Big Book Thumpers warn you about - I am a newcomers worst nightmare!      Yes, you are right...lol!

[Miss Antsy Pam]

That's pretty much what's going on, Psy. I think they even have meetings for net-aholics. That was the joke behind Anonymity Anonymous and yes I have had a journalist call me up asking for meeting dates and locations. I should have said April 1st and given the address of the local Shriners club right next door to an AA hall (church of the magic 8 ball) but I guess I was out of sorts that day and didn't think of it till later.

That social pressure thing has given me holy hell all of my life. As a young child, I had to go to school and live in what had been my neighborhood totally shunned by and shunning everyone around me and act like I loved it, was superior and wasn't bothered by the teasing, bullying and rejection one itty little bit. Nope, not me! I was a Super Seedling! The littlest 'Chicklet'! I had the keys to the universe!

Then there was the Program proper for a couple of years. I tell ya, I'm so thoroughly horrified by conformity that I can't play the game well enough to fit in anywhere. I honestly loathe damned near everyone around me on some back channel just about all the time because they do conform. It's more than I can do most of the time to hide my contempt. Makes for a very lonely existence.

Yeah...I am pretty sure that have a net-aholic...they also have meetings for too much internet gaming!

I hear ya Antigen on the conformity issue.  One of the main reasons I live in Venice..the antithesis of conformity; suburbia would be like a living hell everyday.  I have a huge family that are all content living in the lovely hamlet of Burbank..ugghh!!  I think I was happiest living on a little island off the Gulf Coast of Florida and raising my son there.  Isolating, yes, but nice nevertheless!

[Anonymous]

Conspicuously absent from that list is any mention of what might approximate as the concept of "Mind Fuck."

Did you really mean to omit that?

Or do you truly believe that only physical coercion can qualify as torment, and that experiences of emotional or thought coercion (often referred to as "brainwashing") are merely "lifestyle choices?"

I think that most people have found that that last type of coercion has resulted in the greatest and longest lasting trauma post-program. I cannot speak for everyone, of course, but that is my impression and my personal experience.

Pretty much all of the programs in the TTI owe a partial debt either directly or indirectly to Alcoholics Anonymous for philosophy and/or methodology. That is why it tends to be rather reviled by some of the denizens around here.

What I meant is that if an adult chooses to join AA or scientology or whatever, then the "mind fuck" is to some extent consensual. If a kid is sent to a tti school or straight like treatment centre whether by physical force or just because they are under 18 & dont really have a choice it is more of a rape. Particularly if they complain & are not removed. Rape is a crime and a human rights abuse. Sex is a recreational activity.

[Miss Antsy Pam]

Most of the people I have meet in AA, IMHO, are all multi-taskers and include addicts, workaholics, sexaholics, shopaholics, etc.  For me, the substance of choice does not remove the "ism" part of the disease.

For me it just makes the disease concept sound all the more absurd.  It sounds like if somebody does anything too much you can add an -aholic suffix and label it a "disease".

I understand that you don't agree Psy, but the DMSIV classifies "alcoholism and addiction" as a disease. Personally,I like to view it from my doc's perspective; he just says that I am not wired the same way as most people. Most drug affect me differently that others, I wake up in the middle of surgery even though they have given me 3 times the amount of anesthesia for someone my size...my chemistry is an anomaly. Maybe it isn't a matter of classification as anyone can get carried away with anything.  The "ism" I speak of is a lack of moderation in most things I do.  I know how to be a "1" or a "10"...my quest is to find that elusive "5" on a somewhat consistent basis. Not to say that 5 is mediocre.  Maybe I would call it "balance" instead.

I DO think that most of the AA doctrine, as it has evolved over the last 50 years, IS very much like a cult.  Hence, my split from the group a number of years ago.  In my case, I felt that is was an "all or nothing" type of proposition and that the teachings were contradictory and judgmental once I started to stray from the consensus of my "group."  Once I started voicing a differing opinion, cracks became more frequent and the judgments more harsh...so I left.  End of story.  My relationship with AA ended bitterly with my home group and I moved away.  Did I go and get drunk because I stopped going to meetings 10 years ago....NO.

There is a "however" coming....right now I need to go raise some hell at an AA meeting to prove a point to Psy.

[Anonymous]

I dont understnd why the AA thing is even an issue. If an adult chooses to join a cult, club or crazy organisation and they claim it is working for them or they are getting something out of it then all power to them. If it is not,they can walk away at any time, even if it is a cult. This is entirely different to incarcerating a defenceless kid without trial, or sentencing a young person to a attend an institution like a boot camp that practices cruel and unusual punishment. One is a legitimate human rights issue the other is a lifestyle choice.

In your criteria of what constitutes the TTI, hopefully incomplete, you include:

• "incarcerating a defenceless kid without trial"
• "sentencing a young person to a attend an institution like a boot camp that practices cruel and unusual punishment"

Conspicuously absent from that list is any mention of what might approximate as the concept of "Mind Fuck."

Did you really mean to omit that?

Or do you truly believe that only physical coercion can qualify as torment, and that experiences of emotional or thought coercion (often referred to as "brainwashing") are merely "lifestyle choices?"

I think that most people have found that that last type of coercion has resulted in the greatest and longest lasting trauma post-program. I cannot speak for everyone, of course, but that is my impression and my personal experience.

Pretty much all of the programs in the TTI owe a partial debt either directly or indirectly to Alcoholics Anonymous for philosophy and/or methodology. That is why it tends to be rather reviled by some of the denizens around here.

uhh, in my programs there was nothing even somewhat comprable to AA. I had to attend those sort of meethings in addition to being in the program, and they were a HEAVENLY respite from program. I am not saying the A programs work, but it's false to say program's "methodology" is similar to an A program. It owes no more debt to them then to a public libraries.