Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > News Items
More programs shutting down
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---I think what we're actually quibbling over is what public and private mean. When most people say "privatized", they mean that the money is going to some private organization. (Compare the use of "Private prisons" for the recent contracts-out in that department.) Eckerds may have been in the public sector, but it wasn't directly run by the state, was it?
--- End quote ---
Public sector programs have different oversight and accountability issues. The state gets to read over your books. Extreme policy changes have to be okayed, etc. etc. I'm sure that the degree to which this occurs varies from state to state.
A good rule of thumb is whether Lon will have anything to do with it. He's such a "parent-choice" elitist that anything that stinks too much of government meddling is just not capitalistic enough for him. :D
The Welfare Reform Act has a great deal to do with a number of formerly public companies going private, e.g., Abraxas (TC rehab, possibly linked to Gateway), even though functionally, very little changed. Abraxas negotiated a buy-out of itself by a private prison contractor; most key personnel kept their jobs.
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--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "the article" --- Youth advocates say they expect the recession will bring more cuts next year in other states, hitting programs that try to rehabilitate children rather than simply locking them up...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---I'm afraid I don't see a decrease in contracting out "difficult jobs" happening any time soon.
--- End quote ---
Huh? You just quoted it. When the article says "programs that try to rehabilitate children", you can pretty much bet your bottom dollar that they mean shitpits. "Simply locking them up" refers to the actual juvenile justice system. And yes, I know the latter is FUBAR.
--- End quote ---
When the article refers to budget cuts "hitting programs," they are talking about government-run programs that will be discontinued.
When I refer to the government "contracting out 'difficult jobs'," I refer to cases in which no juvie or community-based program is deemed appropriate (in part because of the discontinued programs), and the kid gets shipped to a privately-owned RTC like Peninsula Village, i.e., a contract job.
Che Gookin:
Contract facilities are interchangable with juvies
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---I think what we're actually quibbling over is what public and private mean. When most people say "privatized", they mean that the money is going to some private organization. (Compare the use of "Private prisons" for the recent contracts-out in that department.) Eckerds may have been in the public sector, but it wasn't directly run by the state, was it?
--- End quote ---
Public sector programs have different oversight and accountability issues. The state gets to read over your books. Extreme policy changes have to be okayed, etc. etc. I'm sure that the degree to which this occurs varies from state to state.
A good rule of thumb is whether Lon will have anything to do with it. He's such a "parent-choice" elitist that anything that stinks too much of government meddling is just not capitalistic enough for him. :D
The Welfare Reform Act has a great deal to do with a number of formerly public companies going private, e.g., Abraxas (TC rehab, possibly linked to Gateway), even though functionally, very little changed. Abraxas negotiated a buy-out of itself by a private prison contractor; most key personnel kept their jobs.
—————————————————
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "the article" --- Youth advocates say they expect the recession will bring more cuts next year in other states, hitting programs that try to rehabilitate children rather than simply locking them up...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---I'm afraid I don't see a decrease in contracting out "difficult jobs" happening any time soon.
--- End quote ---
Huh? You just quoted it. When the article says "programs that try to rehabilitate children", you can pretty much bet your bottom dollar that they mean shitpits. "Simply locking them up" refers to the actual juvenile justice system. And yes, I know the latter is FUBAR.
--- End quote ---
When the article refers to budget cuts "hitting programs," they are talking about government-run programs that will be discontinued.
When I refer to the government "contracting out 'difficult jobs'," I refer to cases in which no juvie or community-based program is deemed appropriate (in part because of the discontinued programs), and the kid gets shipped to a privately-owned RTC like Peninsula Village, i.e., a contract job.
--- End quote ---
I'm looking through this mess of quotes and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.
1) Eckerds, in Flordia, is a Private company that holds a state funded contract. A year or so ago it did start converting some of its state funded contract facilities to Pay for Pain facilities. Is the oversight any better in the state funded situation versus what I experience in Three Springs in Alabama that was a Pay for Pain facility?
Yes and no..
Bearing in mind that oversight tends to mean different things to different people. Oversight to state auditors tends to mean they want to know that the paperwork is caught up, the dollars are accounted for, and the regulations are being followed. To ensure this they hold yearly audits that are a week long nightmare. The other 51 weeks of the year the state tends to represent this distant motherland that still says hello every time a ship pulls into port and kicks off a new load of convicts.
Unless a rebellion breaks out that gains bad publicity the state prefers that they call you and that you don't call them.
As for policy changes?
Heh.. window dressing my friends. Remember, the state is a patriarch that believes children should only be seen and not heard. They don't really want to be arsed in dealing with these kids so they tend to pass what laws they think will shut everyone up so they can go back to gambling and whoring on their days off. If the policies actually meant something then these places wouldn't be an serious concern for anyone who cares about the welfare and safety of kids.
I'll be honest when I say I'm surprised at some of these cuts. Dollar for dollar it is cheaper to keep a kid in a contracting program than it is in a state run and staffed facility. I figured the states would start cutting their own juvies first and saved on costs by contracting. My figures are out of date and based on a conversation I had with a high level member of Eckerds Youth Alternatives many years ago, but if you adjust for inflation and all that the figures for 2000 were about 33,000 a year for a kid in Eckerds and about 45,000 a year for a kid in juvie.
12,000 a year is a decent chunk of change when you are dealing with hundreds or thousands of kids.
The rest of the hemming and hawing on this thread is a bit difficult to follow. Not sure what you guys are trying to get at so I'll take my leave and go back to sleep.
wdtony:
What category would these places fall under? And does it really matter if it is a public or private torturous hell-camp?
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hurrikayne:
IMHO - abuse is abuse, regardless of whether it is paid for by our tax dollars, or by personal financing. As for category...I don't know, I think I would lean more toward 'public' since the detainee would have gone to jail on the taxpayer's dime in the first place.
wdtony:
Having been placed in a program and also spent a few times in jail when I was younger, I can say that Jail would be my pick every time. Jail is sooooooo much better than the damn torture center programs. When I went to jail at age 18, I was so surprised at how good it was compared to the program. Now I don't want to go to jail, but it sure is a big step up from a program.
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