Author Topic: Seed or CIA? (Read 2399 times)

Anonymous · « **on:** March 16, 2006, 08:52:00 PM »

Has anyone found a credible Seed-CIA connection? I?m talking about documents, whistleblowers, shady people in silhouette spilling the beans. The similarities between other pickle factory programs using trauma-based programming (MKULTRA, Monarch) and the Seed method are obvious, although the latter programs trumped in sheer sadistic ingenuity the worst of the Barker-Sembler factories. Then there?s the DuPont-Bush association. Then a geographical link in Lexington, KY. Ten years of research, and Wes Fager is unable to generate anything but speculation in this department? Where is the connection? It has to exist somewhere.

Antigen · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:25:00 PM »

Well, just trot on down to your local library and reference the list of CIA clandestine research programs. . . .

It took decades of concerted effort just to establish the fact that COINTELPRO existed. We still can't prove what they did to whom or whether or not they ever actually shut down the program. Hell, as late as `93, GHW Büsh publicly denied the existence of NSA. I don't think we'll ever find that smoking gun evidence. Not, at least, unless the empire falls. Even then it's hard to say what paper and other evidence will survive or which of the evidence presented is factual, as the victors always get to rewrite the history.

Regardless, I think we have enough info to conclude that the method is fucked up.

Boundary, n. In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

GregFL · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:27:00 PM »

If it exists I am unaware of it. However, the US army apparently did some studys of the synanon and then a government member actively helped spread the synanon model (Robert Dupont). The only other thing I find suspect is Semblers meteric rise in the republican party after staring Straight. Did the straight succeed because of his connections, or did he acquire his connections because of his involvement in synanon treatment?

This is as close to a conspiracy as I can muster up.

Anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:51:00 PM »

Answering the question is important. Consider the fact that the Senate hearings on the Seed brought Barker's method to light in the worst way for him and others. Turning kids into Manchurian candidates didn't sit well with certain power brokers, or else the process was just another administrative farce to curtail public pressure. In any case, proving the Seed was a company program with a company agenda would tarnish the Seed/Straight legacy worse than all the lawsuits and terrible publicity it has received so far. Such proof of involvement would also link program survivors with survivors of other mind control programs, which could ultimately strengthen and enlighten people, as well as open up a world of information exchange.

Anonymous · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:56:00 PM »

Quote

On 2006-03-16 18:27:00, GregFL wrote:

"If it exists I am unaware of it. However, the US army apparently did some studys of the synanon and then a government member actively helped spread the synanon model (Robert Dupont). The only other thing I find suspect is Semblers meteric rise in the republican party after staring Straight. Did the straight succeed because of his connections, or did he acquire his connections because of his involvement in synanon treatment?

This is as close to a conspiracy as I can muster up."

How was Sembler involved in Synanon treatment?

GregFL · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2006, 11:31:00 PM »

Sorry,I just assumed everyone around this topic already knew this.

Mel Sembler's son was a St Pete seeding. When the seed left St Pete, Mel Sembler was the founding president of Straight.

Straight and the seed are loosely based on Synanon techniques.

Does this help? Sorry if it doesn't or if you already knew this. If you weren't anon we could probably have a better conversation.

Antigen · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2006, 11:52:00 PM »

Quote

On 2006-03-16 18:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

Answering the question is important. Consider the fact that the Senate hearings on the Seed brought Barker's method to light in the worst way for him and others.

Well, yeah, answering the question is important. But what's the standard of evidence? And who sets that standard? Look, Sembler had to have been involved very near the time that Senate report came out. And he was already a very successful business man. Not the type to not watch his investments and all factors that might effect them. So it's not credible to think that he didn't know about that report, is it? And so he goes balls to the walls with this.

What reasonable conclusions can we draw from that? Reasonable conclusions are the best we're going to get. We're not ever going to get Herbert under oath copping to the crime.

It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

Anonymous · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2009, 04:29:04 PM »

I have some of the CIA information on this and other interesting operations. The "Seed" designed during World War 2.
I am digging through my office this week to gather this for all the lab rats that have suvived this. I will post what I have.
I was there. A good start is Art Barkers past.

Frank M. :karma:

Stripe · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:02:00 PM »

Hi. I got nothing but....

Back in 2005 I filed a FOIA request with the FBI for its records on Art Barker and The Seed. The response I received was that information, if any, would not be released until Art Barker was dead. I have my response letter I'm waiting to make that request again.

I never pursued a FOIA on the The Seed program by itself. Maybe it's time to try that.

Stripe

Anonymous · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:04:03 AM »

Look at the sort of mind control that goes on in Catholicism. There are monks that a Pope can say "go on a mission and kill this person" and they comply without question. Most programs including AA profess some connection to it. Confession is a cornerstone. Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda was Catholic. Mengele, the Nazi Doctor was as well.

psy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2009, 07:02:28 AM »

Quote from: "ftw"

Look at the sort of mind control that goes on in Catholicism. There are monks that a Pope can say "go on a mission and kill this person" and they comply without question.

LOL. That is *not* true. Priests are forbidden from such things and a pope would never order another to sin (much less a mortal sin). And religions are *much* different than cults.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26988&start=15#p326395

Quote

Most programs including AA profess some connection to it. Confession is a cornerstone. Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda was Catholic. Mengele, the Nazi Doctor was as well.

During WWII, while the Catholic church did not openly oppose the Nazis (that would be the end of them if they did), they *did* hide Jews and other "undesirables" from the nazis. Some priests were quite active in the resistance.

So what if some Nazis were (bad) Catholics. it doesn't make all catholics bad or all catholics nazis.

And FYI, AA doctrine contradicts Catholocism and Chrisitanity in general in quite a number of places.

Please don't make me defend the Catholic Church. I don't like doing it. There is plenty to criticize (pedo priests, stance on homosexuality, stance on condoms), but you're way off base saying comparing Catholocism to a program. Most Cathloics don't even bother going to confession more than once a decade and there are no "consequences". The priest also doens't try to call you a liar and make you confess to more than you did.

Anonymous · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2009, 02:54:49 PM »

Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? Dude, I agree, there are alot of great things about the Catholic church - we have a Father here that does alot of great work for the homeless. But just as with the NSA, I doubt you have much clue about what goes on in the upper echelons of that organization. And programs like AA state they are a direct derivation of Catholic mentality especially the 12 steps.

Antigen · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2009, 03:11:51 PM »

Quote from: "Stripe"

Hi. I got nothing but....

Back in 2005 I filed a FOIA request with the FBI for its records on Art Barker and The Seed. The response I received was that information, if any, would not be released until Art Barker was dead. I have my response letter I'm waiting to make that request again.

I never pursued a FOIA on the The Seed program by itself. Maybe it's time to try that.

Stripe

Man, it would be some nice to have that evidence. They really said "Not till he kicks"? One can only speculate as to what's behind that!

Anonymous · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:14:47 PM »

This is a statement I found on the CIA's MK-ULTRA (Gottlieb was one of the heads):

"Gottlieb used Nazi scientists and their state of the art mind control techniques that had been perfected in concentration camps using victims of the Holocaust. "

"Operation Paperclip recruited 9,000 Nazi scientists and technicians to help the US destroy the USSR. Some of these scientists were known as programmers, people skilled in the art of breaking down and controlling the human mind"

The baseline of these programs, Seed, Synanon, CEDU, etc. is very similar but they all also have differences. Were we in some kind of ongoing experiment that began with the holocaust?

This is the reference link I was looking at:

http://www.spike.com/blog/monarch-new-phoenix/67693

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