Author Topic: Secret Alliance (Read 2609 times)

Anonymous · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:13:58 PM »

Quote from: "psy"

I already said there was only one real rule (no referrals). Otherwise, nobody is holding their tongue, but then again, there isn't much need to since the purpose of the group is to act on what we already agree on (not argue about what we don't). When you see what we have in store, I don't think you will be disappointed (unless you work for the industry).

Well it's human nature. If everyone here posted as guest, there would be much more lively, interesting and honest conversations. People have an interest in creating and molding their persona, and are acutely aware of who is reading what they post. If I am a username with 250 posts who people feel comfortable with, and suddenly start saying that I believe some programs are great, but others are bad, you know that will piss certain people off. So why say it? Well I can, because I am just an anonymous, but people with an interest in being liked, accepted and allowed to remain in secret alliances aren't so lucky. It happens in all organizations, it's universal, it's human nature.

Quote

It's more to keep trolls out and keep the work on track for the moment. We're preparing a surprise. You'll like it (again, unless you work for the industry).

Well that doesn't sound like fornits, at least the fornits that is explained with idealism explaining why a survivors address and pictures should remain for the world to see. If fornits compromises these values, then why not do survivors a solid and delete threads they feel are dangerous to them? Or why not host this secret forum at cafety, or anti wwasp, which are already regulated? Is it because you want to be in charge of it, and retain control? This isn't a negative accusation, I am sincerely curious because from my vantage point, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compromise fornits 'values' for this project, but let some survivors hang out to dry infinitum.

psy · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:29:52 PM »

Quote from: "response"

Well it's human nature. If everyone here posted as guest, there would be much more lively, interesting and honest conversations. People have an interest in creating and molding their persona, and are acutely aware of who is reading what they post. If I am a username with 250 posts who people feel comfortable with, and suddenly start saying that I believe some programs are great, but others are bad, you know that will piss certain people off. So why say it? Well I can, because I am just an anonymous, but people with an interest in being liked, accepted and allowed to remain in secret alliances aren't so lucky. It happens in all organizations, it's universal, it's human nature.

Anonymity also means that your credibility, identity, and agenda (such as yours) is secret. That isn't conducive to working on the sort of group project are currently working together on.

Quote

Quote
It's more to keep trolls out and keep the work on track for the moment. We're preparing a surprise. You'll like it (again, unless you work for the industry).

Well that doesn't sound like fornits, at least the fornits that is explained with idealism explaining why a survivors address and pictures should remain for the world to see. If fornits compromises these values, then why not do survivors a solid and delete threads they feel are dangerous to them? Or why not host this secret forum at cafety, or anti wwasp, which are already regulated? Is it because you want to be in charge of it, and retain control?

AntiWWASP's forum was down (still isn't working, afaik) and Fornits is a neutral place for those from different ideological backgrounds (but still a common anti-industry purpose) to discuss action. Again, I could have set up a list-serve but it didn't occur to me. Oh the humanity it's horrible! the sky will fall, rivers will run with blood and nazis will ride on dinosaurs!

Look. The point is, we are working together now, and if you don't like it... tough shit. I have work to do. Good bye (really this time).

Che Gookin · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:31:36 PM »

Because the project isn't about fornits. The fornits forums just happens to be the place where it is located at the very moment. Given time, and soon hopefully, the project will be located on an entirely new forums.

Anonymous · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:37:37 PM »

Quote from: "psy"

Anonymity also means that your credibility, identity, and agenda (such as yours) is secret. That isn't conducive to working on the sort of group project are currently working together on.

You are assuming that what people present to you, and tell you, is accurate. I could convince you my credibility, identity and agenda are sincere when in fact my motives are anything but. It all depends on how much effort one wants to put into it. I am no longer naive enough to assume what people present to me is accurate, so I choose not to waste my time in that realm. Especially over the net.

Quote

AntiWWASP's forum was down (still isn't working, afaik) and Fornits is a neutral place for those from different ideological backgrounds (but still a common anti-industry purpose) to discuss action. Again, I could have set up a list-serve but it didn't occur to me. Oh the humanity it's horrible! the sky will fall, rivers will run with blood and nazis will ride on dinosaurs!

Look. The point is, we are working together now, and if you don't like it... tough shit. I have work to do. Good bye (really this time).

I'm just making discussion. Asking questions because I'm curious. Didn't know that was a crime. Not sure why it rubs you the wrong way. After all, once upon a time, this was an active discussion forum.

Anonymous · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2008, 05:51:42 PM »

Quote from: "response"

Well that doesn't sound like fornits, at least the fornits that is explained with idealism explaining why a survivors address and pictures should remain for the world to see. If fornits compromises these values, then why not do survivors a solid and delete threads they feel are dangerous to them? Or why not host this secret forum at cafety, or anti wwasp, which are already regulated? Is it because you want to be in charge of it, and retain control? This isn't a negative accusation, I am sincerely curious because from my vantage point, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compromise fornits 'values' for this project, but let some survivors hang out to dry infinitum.

Are you talking about what happened to Stoodoo and Zen's daughter? It is terrible that her name, address and pictures are still up, you are right. But her information and pictures were posted continuously by individuals who aren't regulars of Fornits, CAFETY, HEAL, ANTIWWASP, ISAC, etc. That was industry related activity designed to break a family, not something done in a moment of anger. It would be armageddon for the industry hack who posted that girl's info over and over if Zen Agent and Che Gookin caught 'em, LOL. They would take turns kicking that behind.

Stoodoo says her daughter is okay with it now and understands. Her pictures and info still on the forum are a jarring reminder of how low the TTI will stoop to protect its interests.

These discussions geared toward cooperation between groups for a united effort could lead to wiping out the industry.

Carmel · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2008, 07:29:13 PM »

Seems that Survivorship has gone corporate to me. No offense to anyone and their efforts of course, but its all so very complicated around here.

Frankly, I find the idea of any secret groups or or any "groups" at all here repugnant. I understand the need to organize to create change in the teen hate industry...but this forum has become completely unfriendly to your average newbie looking for information. (We had our share of trolls and infighting then too, but the scales seem rather tipped to that end these days).

In the Straight forum you'd get a few new people every month or so, old survivors and new ones....I havent seen anyone new in years. Its disturbing to me because even just judging from the group size my program held at any given time over a period of 5-6 years (250+ clients)...you'd think there would be more action. And thats just from my program.

Anyway, call me old fashioned...but things used to be alot easier around this forum, and for all the posturing Ive seen precious little to be done in the way of establishing lasting change to the program industry. Some might take offense to that, and I concede that I am not an activist....just my opinion.

LOOOVE ya Psy! LOOOVE ya Che! LOOOOOOOVE ya GROOOOP! :cheers:

Che Gookin · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:35:13 PM »

Quote from: "Carmel"

Some might take offense to that, and I concede that I am not an activist....just my opinion.

Yeah.. same here.. I'm an asshole, not an activist.

Anonymous · « **Reply #22 on:** December 09, 2008, 09:27:34 PM »

Quote from: "Rusty Goat"

? I hear folks have the password, guess I aint welcome, LOL... hmm, that's ok. Ever since HEAL broke off diplomatic ties with ISAC, I guess I'm not surprised at anything anymore.
RG

Y did heal break off ties to isac? Can someone tell me?
they're like the 'judeon people's front' in 'life of brian.'

Deprogrammed · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2008, 04:20:50 PM »

Quote from: "Carmel"

Seems that Survivorship has gone corporate to me. No offense to anyone and their efforts of course, but its all so very complicated around here.

Frankly, I find the idea of any secret groups or or any "groups" at all here repugnant. I understand the need to organize to create change in the teen hate industry...but this forum has become completely unfriendly to your average newbie looking for information. (We had our share of trolls and infighting then too, but the scales seem rather tipped to that end these days).

In the Straight forum you'd get a few new people every month or so, old survivors and new ones....I havent seen anyone new in years. Its disturbing to me because even just judging from the group size my program held at any given time over a period of 5-6 years (250+ clients)...you'd think there would be more action. And thats just from my program.

Anyway, call me old fashioned...but things used to be alot easier around this forum, and for all the posturing Ive seen precious little to be done in the way of establishing lasting change to the program industry. Some might take offense to that, and I concede that I am not an activist....just my opinion.

LOOOVE ya Psy! LOOOVE ya Che! LOOOOOOOVE ya GROOOOP! :cheers:

LOVE YE TOO, CARMEL!...ha ha ha ha
Carmel, I could not agree with ye more that is why I have chosen to stay out of the "alliance" completely.
BTW, how the hell are ye? I hope all is well. I do miss ye around these here parts. Maybe some of you oldie but goodies should come show some of the newbies how it's done.
Oh, yeah and I am an activist and not afraid to claim it.
warm regards,
-DP

Anonymous · « **Reply #24 on:** December 13, 2008, 10:40:14 AM »

Quote from: "jjjjgurdy"

Quote from: "Rusty Goat"
? I hear folks have the password, guess I aint welcome, LOL... hmm, that's ok. Ever since HEAL broke off diplomatic ties with ISAC, I guess I'm not surprised at anything anymore.
RG

Y did heal break off ties to isac? Can someone tell me?
they're like the 'judeon people's front' in 'life of brian.'

http://leftspot.com/blog/?q=node/129

interesting parallel. It was more of a "power tripping my way or the highway" type thing and a "I don't give a shit about you" or "don't tell me what to do even though I have no clue" type thing. Nothing to worry about though.

Ursus · « **Reply #25 on:** December 13, 2008, 11:49:29 AM »

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: I can recognize some of the players already!! I submit first dibs on playing 'Frank Goliath, the Macedonian baby-crusher.'

—•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•— —•?|•?•0•?•|?•—

Life of Brian, Scene 7
Submitted by LS on Tue, 10/17/2006 - 11:46am.

Scene 7 from the movie Life of Brian is the funniest commentary on splits and sectarianism on the left that has made it to the movies. If you haven't seen Monty Python's Life of Brian, I encourage you to go rent or buy it and watch it immediately.
edit: or you can see the video of this scene online here (thanks to red scare for the link)
Here is the dialogue from the infamous Scene 7:
(reprinted from here)

Scene 7

Brian meets the P.F.J. [People's Front of Judea] at the forum

[trumpets]
[clap clap clap]
ANNOUNCER:
Ladies and gentlemen. The next contest is between... Frank Goliath, the Macedonian baby-crusher, and Boris Mineburg.
BRIAN:
Want some...
VOICE:
Thank you, fellows.
BRIAN:
Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar. Tuscany fried bats.
JUDITH:
I do feel, Reg, that any Anti-Imperialist group like ours must reflect such a divergence of interests within its power-base.
REG:
Agreed. Francis?
FRANCIS:
Yeah. I think Judith's point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man--
STAN:
Or woman.
FRANCIS:
Or woman... to rid himself--
STAN:
Or herself.
FRANCIS:
Or herself.
REG:
Agreed.
FRANCIS:
Thank you, brother.
STAN:
Or sister.
FRANCIS:
Or sister. Where was I?
REG:
I think you'd finished.
FRANCIS:
Oh. Right.
REG:
Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man--
STAN:
Or woman.
REG:
Why don't you shut up about women, Stan. You're putting us off.
STAN:
Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.
FRANCIS:
Why are you always on about women, Stan?
STAN:
I want to be one.
REG:
What?
STAN:
I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me 'Loretta'.
REG:
What?!
LORETTA:
It's my right as a man.
JUDITH:
Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
LORETTA:
I want to have babies.
REG:
You want to have babies?!
LORETTA:
It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
REG:
But... you can't have babies.
LORETTA:
Don't you oppress me.
REG:
I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
LORETTA:
[crying]
JUDITH:
Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.
FRANCIS:
Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.
REG:
What's the point?
FRANCIS:
What?
REG:
What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?!
FRANCIS:
It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
REG:
Symbolic of his struggle against reality.
[trumpets]
[clap clap clap]
GUARD:
Get out there.
BORIS:
It's, um--
GUARD:
Get out there.
BORIS:
It's dangerous out there. Ah ah. Ah! Oh.
[clap clap clap]
[clank]
Ooh.
CROWD:
Aaah. Ohh...
SPECTATOR:
What a load of rubbish.
BRIAN:
Larks' tongues. Otters' noses. Ocelot spleens.
REG:
Got any nuts?
BRIAN:
I haven't got any nuts. Sorry. I've got wrens' livers, badgers' spleens--
REG:
No, no, no.
BRIAN:
Otters' noses?
REG:
I don't want any of that Roman rubbish.
JUDITH:
Why don't you sell proper food?
BRIAN:
Proper food?
REG:
Yeah, not those rich imperialist tit-bits.
BRIAN:
Well, don't blame me. I didn't ask to sell this stuff.
REG:
All right. Bag of otters' noses, then.
FRANCIS:
Make it two.
REG:
Two.
FRANCIS:
Thanks, Reg.
BRIAN:
Are you the Judean People's Front?
REG:
Fuck off!
BRIAN:
What?
REG:
Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk.
FRANCIS:
Wankers.
BRIAN:
Can I... join your group?
REG:
No. Piss off.
BRIAN:
I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.
PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA:
Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.
REG:
Schtum.
JUDITH:
Are you sure?
BRIAN:
Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
REG:
Listen. If you really wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans.
BRIAN:
I do!
REG:
Oh, yeah? How much?
BRIAN:
A lot!
REG:
Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.:
Yeah...
JUDITH:
Splitters.
P.F.J.:
Splitters...
FRANCIS:
And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA:
And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.:
Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG:
What?
LORETTA:
The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG:
We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA:
Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG:
People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS:
Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG:
He's over there.
P.F.J.:
Splitter!
GOLIATH:
[pant pant pant] Ooh. Ooh. I-- I think I'm about to have a... cardiac arrest. Ooh. Ooh.
SPECTATOR:
Absolutely dreadful. Hmm.
CROWD:
[cheering]
REG:
Yes, brother! Ha ha. What's your name?
BRIAN:
Brian. Brian Cohen.
REG:
We may have a little job for you, Brian.

Ursus · « **Reply #26 on:** December 13, 2008, 12:23:36 PM »

In addition to the submitted YouTube clip noted above in the "edit" sentence, here are some other priceless comments left for this blog entry:

Quote

Of course . . .
Submitted by Modern Pitung (not verified) on Tue, 10/17/2006 - 1:37pm.

For all the hoopla about the Popular Front of Judea reflecting the communist Left, Life of Brian contains one of the most cutting analyses of the failures of anarchism/liberalism (and bourgeois individualism in general).

Insert your basic anarchist-with-a-clue into the role of Brian and you'll see what I mean:

BRIAN: Look. You've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we're all individuals!
BRIAN: You're all different!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different!
DENNIS: I'm not.
ARTHUR: Shhhh!
FOLLOWERS: Shh! Shhhh! Shhh!

Quote

Great scene and Movie.
Submitted by ShineThePath (not verified) on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 7:34pm.

This is a great scene and movie. One of the most memorable scenes of course is when the Judean People's Front run into the Campaign for a Free Galilee who were plotting the exact same tactic to kidnap Pilot's wife. They end of course all killing themselves in front of two Roman guards.

Another great scene is when the leaders of People's Front of Judea organize a meeting. And discuss what needs to be done about Brian's cruxification as he is being crucified.

Some great quotes

"Reg, our glorious leader and founder of the P.F.J., will be coordinating consultant at the drain head, though he himself will not be taking part in any terrorist action, as he has a bad back."

"BRIAN: We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy!

EVERYONE: The Judean People's Front?!

BRIAN: No, no! The Romans! "

Scene 21 is also memorable

Anonymous · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2012, 07:13:36 AM »

Quote from: "Ursus"

In addition to the submitted YouTube clip noted above in the "edit" sentence, here are some other priceless comments left for this blog entry:

Quote
Of course . . .
Submitted by Modern Pitung (not verified) on Tue, 10/17/2006 - 1:37pm.

For all the hoopla about the Popular Front of Judea reflecting the communist Left, Life of Brian contains one of the most cutting analyses of the failures of anarchism/liberalism (and bourgeois individualism in general).

Insert your basic anarchist-with-a-clue into the role of Brian and you'll see what I mean:

BRIAN: Look. You've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we're all individuals!
BRIAN: You're all different!
FOLLOWERS: Yes, we are all different!
DENNIS: I'm not.
ARTHUR: Shhhh!
FOLLOWERS: Shh! Shhhh! Shhh!
Quote
Great scene and Movie.
Submitted by ShineThePath (not verified) on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 7:34pm.

This is a great scene and movie. One of the most memorable scenes of course is when the Judean People's Front run into the Campaign for a Free Galilee who were plotting the exact same tactic to kidnap Pilot's wife. They end of course all killing themselves in front of two Roman guards.

Another great scene is when the leaders of People's Front of Judea organize a meeting. And discuss what needs to be done about Brian's cruxification as he is being crucified.

Some great quotes

"Reg, our glorious leader and founder of the P.F.J., will be coordinating consultant at the drain head, though he himself will not be taking part in any terrorist action, as he has a bad back."

"BRIAN: We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy!

EVERYONE: The Judean People's Front?!

BRIAN: No, no! The Romans! "

Scene 21 is also memorable

Love monte python. good to see a fellow admirer. yes, they send up a lot of movements accurately. No more fighting, whippersnappers, you!

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