DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run

[SEKTO]

Did you ever have to write written reports on yourself or others (some programs call this a "dirt list" or "moral inventory")? How detailed did these reports get?

Tonight I remembered something that I had not thought about in YEARS; it was buried waaay back in my memory.

There was one time, just one occurrence of this thing I am about to describe to you in all my time in DAYTOP.  There was this one time where the coordinators (there were just two of them at the time; I'll call them Jeff and Nathan) with the blessings and help of the counselors, made us all gather and do a mass spill-your-guts confession session together.  Just that one time in all my days at DAYTOP.  Usually there were four coordinators in the DAYTOP structure, one for each department, but in this instance there were just two, with two departments each.  

When I made coordinator, however,  was the only one in the whole house for awhile and they gave me the responsibility of carrying all four departments until they got some other kids with enough "personal growth" to take some of my load.

I was a real asshole sometimes back then, running the whole house myself.  The power trip got to me, I'll admit.  I'd pull kids out of lunch to do haircuts on them, and learned how to give those haircuts like a pro.  I remember telling Mike that he was just a big baby (he was overweight and wore real thick glasses) and he told me "Suck my balls" and then we just screamed louder until he started to cry.  Then we'd lighten up on him.  I feel bad about that, really bad.

My memory of that "Tell It All Brother" day with Jeff and Nathan is pretty hazy; after all, it was over fifteen years ago and I hadn't thought of it in a looong time.  They even had a special DAYTOPian name for this cult-of-confession ritual we did that day, but it it escapes me.  I can't remember what the DAYTOP term for this thing was.  I want to say it was called "The Gut Check" but that's probably not right.  But we were always being told,  " you need to check your gut."

Jeff and Nathan stood before the assembled group with notebooks and we had to stand up one at a time and go through this interrogation thing where we'd have to confess all of our hangups, fears, tell of people we'd offended, bad things we'd done, bad attitudes we had, issues that still bound us, all that.  Nathan would press us for more and more, and I remember distinctly now he told me, "You're only throwing me bones, but I am looking for the meat" doing this Grand Inquisitor thing.  "I know you're hiding something, I know you're holding back."  I don't remember how much or what exactly I confessed to, but do remember exaggerating things and making some stuff up just so they'd leave me alone.

But this was not a regular thing; we did two Marathon Groups and just one of these mass confession sessions in the whole time I was there.

The Marathon Groups were in this dim room, with soft muzak playing, kind of an eerie atmosphere, everybody in a circle, and was basically just like an intense encounter group that was five or six hours long where things got more personal.  More tomorrow on that.

DAYTOP in TX closed down in oh I'd say, around '95, '96, a few years after we were out of there, in circumstances involving some kind of financial scandal, embezzlement and such.

[Ursus]

We were kids; we didn't know what was going on.

It's as if DAYTOP opened up the top of our skulls, scraped our brains and minds away, and replaced that with a bunch of "DAYTOP values" and "confront yourself in the eyes and hearts of others" shit, and then sent us out into the world again. It'd be like being opened up, cut into during surgery, and then improperly sutured back together before being sent home. Then you start bleeding all over the place, the would gets infected, bacteria gets into your blood, and then before you know it you have a systemic blood infection because of the botched surgery and the fact that the surgical team didn't close you up properly or give you any antibiotics or follow-up.

That's what happened to us, but at a psychic level. We weren't sutured back together properly individually, we got sutured together by DAYTOP and what started out as close friendships got warped into these purulent and toxic relationships and nasty patterns of behavior that continued for years.

That stuff totally stunted my emotional growth.

It's like I walked around with this big festering open wound for YEARS after the experience and am only just now seeing how badly the "doctors" botched the "surgery," you know?

Well, that was the point, to remake the human psyche, eh? It came from a criminologist viewpoint, to curb and control the wanton element, and it came from a psychological viewpoint, the picking apart of how the human soul ticks...under pressure. Some haunted hell that is, when the guideposts of an ordinary existence are stripped away clean.

"We were kids; we didn't know what was going on."

Somewhere along the way, that world assumed that adolescents were something akin to smaller and less corpulent adults. There was no recognition nor appreciation that there was still a good bit of developmental progress being made in the forming of who said being was in the process of becoming. It was brain salad surgery in the hands of horse traders.

[dishdutyfugitive]

It was brain salad surgery in the hands of horse traders.

That my friends is the best close I've heard in a long time.

Ursus buy yourself a few rounds and put it on my tab.

[SEKTO]

My therapists are actually out of town this week, taking a much-deserved vacation.  So this board IS my therapy right now.  I sincerely hope that nobody minds.

Here's a couple more things that I'll add while I am thinking about it:

The director of the place I'll call her "Marylin",the one who I was told is/was HIV positive?  I never did tell of how I found out about her.  To make a long story short (and I'll spare you the details; they're probably not important) I was told of this by my friend Billy, who was told by his mother.  Billy's mom was a genuine heroin addict and was originally told of it by "Marylin" herself during a private counseling session.  Billy's mom (she's gone now too, BTW) had Hep C and they were discussing blood-borne illnesses that are transmitted through shooting up.  That's when Marylin, so the story goes, shared her status.  I do not know if Marylin was legally obligated under state law to tell any of us of her supposed HIV-positive status at the time or not, but she didn't, and I did not know of it until after I'd graduated.  If it's indeed true (and it might not be, for all I know) that she was HIV-positive , she was working in close proximity with minors, for God's sake.  But Marylin never told me or anybody of the other kids at the time, and I do not even know this for an absolute fact, in any case.  I take it on very good authority though; I take Billy's word for it.

Also the Marathon Groups...we did two of them while I was there.  This was long so ago...I do not remember them being all that intense or traumatic, really; they were just, like, extended encounter groups that into more personal and detailed stuff, and we not supposed to yell.  Another type of group confession thing, basically a different version of the "Gut Check" exercise that we had to go through that one time with Jeff and Nathan.  The Marathon Group was set in a room in which the lights were dimmed, there was soft music on, and it was smaller, ten or fifteen of us I'd say.  They were six or so hours in duration.  Basically, we were told to confess and reveal all of the most personal details of our lives, how it made us feel, and we were supposed to confront one another one hangups, suppressed emotions, "Tell us how that made you feel" stuff, and the like.  They really tried to get into your business during those sessions.  But again, the haircuts and encounter groups were much more brutal, and in retrospect  much more traumatizing to me, than the Marathon Groups.  They were still not pleasant, but the Encounter Groups and haircuts were much more "in your face" and the Marathons were sort of subtle and laid-back.

We were a bunch of kids that they were subjecting to this shit; we were all between 14-18 years old.  There were a couple of kids who were as young as 12-13.  During one group session, this 12- year old girl (she was really young to be there) started talking about horrific sexual abuse that had been inflicted upon her; this girl had no boundaries, and I do not know what the counselors ever did about her situation. She'd come out of something called the Letot Center, that particular girl.  There were a few girls that had come from Letot.  I myself was 19 when I graduated from the program; I was one of the oldest, if not THE oldest.  Looking back I can see now just how wildly inappropriate that place was for a bunch of teenagers, especially a casual high-school potsmoker like me.  There was one "staff psychologist" but I do not know what she did all day or what her background was; she worked in the offices in the back and was the one that they'd always bring the parents to.  As far as I know, she was the one trained or degreed person in the place (other than the teachers in the school, which I never went to since I had my GED)  and I really do not know what exactly she did for them; she never ran any groups or anything, and was always in the back.  And there was one social worker, I remember now, one actual social worker with a degree that did intake stuff, and that's it.

[Anonymous]

If there was little/no risk of bodily fluids interchange, I don't think there was any reason to require "Marylin" to divulge her HIV status, minors or not.

[SEKTO]

Yes, you are right.  

But that's not what I am getting at and (with respect) is beside the point.

My point is, that I am not sure what the applicable laws of the State of TX were with respect to that kind of thing around '92-'94; in other words, I do not know whether she would have been legally required to disclose that kind of information to us at that time or not.  

In my mind, it's not about whether she should have been obligated to disclose her status or not, it's whether she, and the rest of the DAYTOP staff who knew, were breaking the law.

If she didn't tell us her status, but the law (at least the way it was back in those days) would have required her to, then she would have been in violation of the law. And if this is indeed the case, it's another thing they should be held accountable for. After all, they're all about accountability, right?

[Antigen]

Great thread! Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have to go find some grub right now, then I'll be back later to catch up.

[Ursus]

After all, they're all about accountability, right?

NO, Sekto, they are all about your accountability. They, for their part, have the holy caress of the indomitable Catholic Church to allay their sins. And we all know just how accountable those "holy caresses" have been in the past, don't we now?

On another note, I have managed to re-find a piece on 'confrontational therapy' which mentions Daytop in a historical sense. You might find it interesting... I posted it here:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26291

[SEKTO]

Motivational Litmus Tests at Admission: Forced confession at the end of a confrontational intake interview that one was a baby, was stupid and needed help, and the surrendering of something of value to demonstrate one's commitment to recovery (e.g., money, property, one's hair).

Pull-ups: Immediate feedback from one community member to another regarding inappropriate behavior.

Image work: Demands to change physical appearance and demeanor (everything from how one talked to how one walked).

Haircut: A group session in which a relatively new member is "taken apart" by community elders and given prescriptions for improving his or her attitudes and behavior.

Learning Experience: An assignment intended as a form of self-confrontation and communication to other community members. Examples include being "busted" from a higher status position to the dishpan; wearing a diaper, a toilet seat or a sign (e.g., "I'm a baby. Please help me grow up.") for a prescribed period of time; or having one's head shaved.

The Synanon Game: A no-holds-barred group therapy that utilized verbal attack and ridicule to strip the participant's exterior image and defenses while supposedly toughening them on the inside.

Probes, Reaches, Trips, Marathons & Stews: Versions of the Synanon Game that could extend for prolonged periods of time (six to eight hours, to days).

The Fireplace Ritual (General Meeting): Meeting called of the whole community to confront a single individual's behavior.

This really takes me back, wow.  

Remember, everything I am telling you was taking place in TX, and the whole atmosphere and attitude about "treatment" and "rehabilitation" down there, whether it's some outpatient facility for Johnny Pothead or a maximum-security prison, is entirely punitive in its approach.

This punitive approach to "treatment" that was the "big thing" in TX the early '90s hurt a lot more people than it helped, needless to say.

DAYTOP terminology and practice in my day included the "haircuts"; we'd use the term "pull up", also we'd call it "reeling in"; we also called them "learning experiences or L.E.-s"; we'd do "Image work" and this was also called "learning to recognize one's physical attitudes;" we did the encounter groups once or twice a week, those two marathon groups, the one "Gut Check" session in the year and a half or so that I was there, and "haircuts" whenever they were considered necessary.  

The name of the annual DAYTOP Halloween party/dance was Gaudenzia.

Each new member (I forget the term for newer members and think that they were simply called "younger members") was assigned a "big brother" or "big sister" to help them adjust to the program and to keep them "reeled in" properly.

Also there was a lot of the use of the word "gut," as in "you need to check your gut" or "that makes my gut flip," etc.  

For example: if somebody new was "copping an attitude" we'd "reel them in" by arranging a "haircut" with that person's "big brother" and some "coordinators" or "counselors."  We'd confront this person on their "image problem" and "physical attitudes" and then after the "haircut" they'd be given an "L.E." like sitting in The Chair for awhile with a sign on their back, or walking around with a sign that said, "ask me to bark like a dog"  or a pacifier on a string around their neck.  If the person would still not come around, then they'd be confronted in the "encounter group" and then if they were still had not made the proper attitude adjustment they'd be "called out" before the entire "DAYTOP family" in "morning meeting," which I suppose was a variation of the Fireplace Ritual, in an effort to help "pull them up."

More later.  My head is spinning, and I need time to process and recollect this stuff.

[Antigen]

As for your question about DAYTOP and it's connections to NYC organized crime.  I've forwarded that question to my friend (Antigen) who knows a lot more than I about DAYTOP's connections.

Here's one. http://www.thestraights.com/theprogram/ ... story2.htm Look at the sidebar to the right of the article, a long and detailed plug for "Duck in a Raincoat: An Unauthorized Portrait of Joe Ricci.

Nobody knows for sure where Seed founder, Art Barker was indoctrinated but some folks think it was Daytop. He also had track affiliations and landed up with one of his ardent followers as deputy mayor of Dania (Port Everglades....shady fuckin little town who's boudaries are so thoroughly jerrymandered they look like a bad jigsaw puzzle.)

Footnotes:

a. Keeping this editorial on point with Straight, Inc., it should be noted that when Dr. Dan Casriel and Father William O'Brien setup Daytop, the world's first successful Synanon imitator, they hired a Synanon director named David Deitch to direct it. They apparently did not know that David Deitch was an admirer of Ernesto Che Guevara--Fidel Castro's right hand man. Later Casriel and O'Brien would claim that Deitch was trying to use synanons to turn Daytop into a left wing commune, and they managed to have Deitch removed.
http://www.thestraights.com/news/editor ... tornot.htm

That's about all I got on that.

[Ursus]

More on David Deitch here:

David Deitch
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23440[/list]

BTW, Deitch was also heavily involved with Pheonix House  (NYC) and Gateway (Chicago), that latter TC being the entity which ran that unit in the Texas prison system that came to our attention this past summer...

I think Gateway was also a starting point for that woman who founded Abraxas, but I wasn't able to find proof of it, just lots of tantalizing coincidences.

[psy]

Or, sometimes instead of the "It's not PLAYTOP, it's DAYTOP" line they'd use  "It's called DAYTOP, not DAYCARE, so if you don't like it why don't you LEAVE and see where you end up!!!"

...or some variation like that, therefore erecting the bars in our minds.  A lot of us were forced to go into DAYTOP by our parents, and some were probated there.  If we leave, split, where are we gonna go, the streets?  Deadinsanejaildeadinsanejaildeadinsanejail...and our parents were duped into believing us to be a bunch of fuckups, too, so who's going to believe their kid when the kid comes home at night and says "I hate that place.  I'm being abused and degraded there.  They're trying to brainwash me."  You know?

My Dad would say, "It's tough love, not a recreation center."  At the center, Marcia would tell me not to think too much: onedayatatimeonedayatatimeonedayatatime...And I started to actually to be grateful for the ongoing punishment.  It was just one long coercion in DAYTOP.

You've said so much in so little space about how it's so difficult for one to actually just "up and leave".  Where I was, in addition to what you've described, there were no homless shelters in the area and even if we did choose to leave, we could not take our property, identification, or any money we had.  The rationale told to us by the staff was that the stuff was our parent's property and money, not ours (whether or not this was actually true).  They told us that if they let us leave with money we would just spend it on drugs (regardless of whether or not we were "enrolled" for drug issues or not), and if we left with our property we would just pawn it and spend the money on drugs.  Since parents were told never to take us back in to the house, that option was out of the question as well.

They made it clear that the only practical salvation (in addition to the other forms) would only be possible within the program.  They told us that if we left we would come back broken.  Altough AWOLs were common, in most cases this (rigged) "prediction" turned out to be accurate as students soon discovered the practical difficulties (i.e. no homeless shelters), not even to mention the psychological debilitation / enforced dependency.  Seeing these kids come back broken influenced us all, I think.  It created a perception that "maybe the staff was right.  maybe we are sick in the head and can't make it without program."  In many cases they would actually throw kids out on the streets as a "punishment" if they didn't AWOL on their own since the streets were such an effective way to break down resistance (high crime area as well... a friend of mine was raped on the streets).

The key thing here is that they created the illusion of being able to leave (and told us this often) while at the same time making it nearly practically impossible.  The end result is a deep-seated feeling of learned helplessness, eroding any shred of self-confidence "students" have left.  It's a trick many cults use.  Scientology's Sea Org uses similar tactics to keep their members from leaving.  Did Daytop do any of that or did they rely exclusively on psychological debilitation?

[SEKTO]

Recalling and processing this stuff has really triggered a lot of old emotions in me in the last couple of days; I have lately been experiencing this sensation that I will describe as being similar to a vibrating inside of my head, as if my psyche has been plucked like a guitar string.  My vision goes blurry, and I momentarily feel sick to my stomach, as if I've been spinning on the merry-go-round too much.

Boooiiinnnggg...

This is the same sensation that I experience, when I am triggered by thinking about the Army and Iraq.

So, I was doing some work and reading on boundaries the other day, and then I had that AHA! moment, a door opened in my mind, and then I started to unpack things that I had locked away, stored in a mental closet years ago, with respect to the DAYTOP experience.

It happened to me too, man, it happened to me too. And for so long I thought that it was "normal" and "healthy."

I never realized that DAYTOP was a cult, I thought that I had been through "treatment."

Yeah, the Ludovico Treatment is what it was.

That's messed up, huh? And it's taken me the better part of FIFTEEN years to figure this out.

It was very powerful thought reform that we were exposed to; it goes to show you just how how potent the mind control we were under was, that it took so long for me to even start to see it.

My judgmental attitude, self-perceived "authenticity" and lack of tolerance for what I perceived as the "phoniness" in others is/was so systemic in my thinking that that was my mental "baseline" for all of my adult life! You know?

Amazing, amazing.

[psy]

Eventually I came to the conclusion that what I do defines me, not the other way around,

Can you explain please what you mean by that psy?  Expand on this statement?

Well.  IMO, the idea that there is a "fake"/"bad" identity and a "real"/"good" identity is an artificial one entirely.  Think about the first time you even heard that concept.

The "program's" concept:

- you are a fake/bad person who has been in denial.  You need to accept who you are (and we'll keep you guessing at that until we approve, giving the illusion that you "found" who you "really" are).  Once you "find" this healthy identity, we can tell you what are healthy ("real") actions.

Another concept:

- What you do defines who you are. You can choose what you do and thus define who you are.

Margaret singer writes that cults attack one's identity as fake (create an identity crisis) so they can create a cult "pseudopersonality", convincing you that the fake personality is really who you are.  She describes this at length in "Cults in Our Midst" (highly recommended reading).

[SEKTO]

Some words of encouragement from The Chairman:

That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June.

I said that's life, and as funny as it may seem
Some people get their kicks,
Stompin' on a dream
But I don't let it, let it get me down,
'Cause this fine ol' world it keeps spinning around

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,
A poet, a pawn and a king.
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing:
Each time I find myself, flat on my face,
I pick myself up and get back in the race.

That's life
I tell ya, I can't deny it,
I thought of quitting baby,
But my heart just ain't gonna buy it.
And if I didn't think it was worth one single try,
I'd jump right on a big bird and then I'd fly

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,
A poet, a pawn and a king.
I've been up and down and over and out
And I know one thing:
Each time I find myself laying flat on my face,
I just pick myself up and get back in the race

That's life
That's life and I can't deny it
Many times I thought of cutting out
But my heart won't buy it
But if there's nothing shakin' come this here july
I'm gonna roll myself up in a big ball and die
My, My