Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
psy:
--- Quote from: "SEKTO" ---We'll save these for tomorrow night, OK? It's pretty late and I am going to go to sleep soon. Until next time,
B
--- End quote ---
Sure thing. gnight.
psy:
--- Quote from: "SEKTO" ---But even then, there were certain guidelines, standards of behavior that we, the kids and counselors alike were obligated to abide by. For instance, in the encounter groups, we had to keep both feet on the ground at all times and (as we were kids, minors most of us) were not permitted to use profanity during the group session. Any kind of physical assault or fighting was never permitted.
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Most programs weren't like Straight in that they recognized that physical violence was unnecessary to the thought reform process (actually counterproductive, at least Signer says so). In the program I was in they had similar rules to which you described above (both feet on the ground, no physical violence). That's actually closer to what Synanon was IIRC (they had the same rules... unless you were a lawyer who was going after them.)
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "SEKTO" ---I mean, I can see some of these B-Mod and more confrontational techniques maybe perhaps being useful and even beneficial when applied to hard-core addicts
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I would tend to disagree. The results from most of these facilities are temporary. Even if it worked, (which it doesn't, since the changes are reliant on a controlled milieu), it would still be a process without informed consent. Who would fully and knowingly consent to brainwashing (not that such a thing is even possible, since Singer's first condition is that a person must remain unaware of how he is being changed)?
--- Quote ---junkies and crack fiends coming off of the mean streets of NYC, but to apply those same techniques to suburban kids who are experimenting with grass at the local high school, even if it's an outpatient thing, is dangerous at best, and psychologically devastating, crippling at its worst.
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Some comments inspired by the above, which in no way can address all of it...
First off, behavior modification, by definition of the word behavior, contains a complex array of targets. There are the physical aspects, what one actually does, but there are also psychological aspects: the intent, the motivation, etc. etc. etc.
Barring incidents of physical transgressions or abuse (which would certainly change the picture entirely), behavior modification which primarily addresses physical aspects generally does not have far-reaching consequences. Once the parameters for following the rules, the milieu, are removed, the subject generally reverts back to previous behavior. Or does not. That's basically up to the subject. His/her mindset or approach to life may or may not have changed or matured in the meantime.
Behavior modification which addresses psychological aspects, on the other hand, generally has longer-lasting consequences. This is why so many of these places so precisely target your soul.
What we tend to talk about here (on fornits), however, is not long term therapy with a trustworthy and competent practitioner, with informed consent and the pace being determined by the subject, with autonomy and confidentiality and individual freedom of choice respected and what not... What we generally talk about here is a system which utilizes shortcuts for reasons of expediency and cost effectiveness. And to do that in its extreme entails thought coercion.
Somewhere along the line, people figured out that getting people to be of the mind they wanted them to be was a lot quicker, and entailed less facilitators, if they capitalized on peer pressure. This is why ALL of these places, and I do mean every single friggin' one, use some form of group therapy or encounter group.
Thought coercion has a high price. For some, more than for others.
Ursus:
The kinds of shortcuts that are utilized by and inherent to a group format affect some folks more "benignly" than others. I believe this is why, even chalking some cases up to Stockholm Syndrome, you still have a certain percentage of "success stories," namely people who, despite it all, genuinely feel they have been "bettered" by the experience.
But not all people are well suited to a group format. For some, the mere visceral reality of being in a group is traumatic enough in and of itself. This, on TOP of what is actually verbalized...
Somehow, at least in my humble experience, it was usually these people who formed the bulk of focus, when it came time to assess everyone's moral inventory at Hyde. Were their survival skills merely ill-suited to this artificially created environment? Or is "introversion" a dirty word for group-thinkers, a species that "society" is attempting to eradicate?
To run afoul of being "in tune with the group" was a larger sin than it was to mess up, when it came to issues that the group was supposedly "helping you address."
SEKTO:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---The kinds of shortcuts that are utilized by and inherent to a group format affect some folks more "benignly" than others. I believe this is why, even chalking some cases up to Stockholm Syndrome, you still have a certain percentage of "success stories," namely people who, despite it all, genuinely feel they have been "bettered" by the experience.
But not all people are well suited to a group format. For some, the mere visceral reality of being in a group is traumatic enough in and of itself. This, on TOP of what is actually verbalized...
Somehow, at least in my humble experience, it was usually these people who formed the bulk of focus, when it came time to assess everyone's moral inventory at Hyde. Were their survival skills merely ill-suited to this artificially created environment? Or is "introversion" a dirty word for group-thinkers, a species that "society" is attempting to eradicate?
To run afoul of being "in tune with the group" was a larger sin than it was to mess up when it came to issues that the group was supposedly "helping you address."
--- End quote ---
Holy cow. You hit the nail right on the head, really pegged it right with that one. I was about to go to bed, but once I saw the word "introversion" it just jumped out at me, so I feel compelled to jump back in for a minute here.
Yes indeed, I am a strong introvert, INFP specifically. I just finished reading "The Introvert Advantage" and will soon start on "Please Understand Me."
More later. Really must get some sleep now.
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