Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
Magnificent:
Again, my intention is not to defend Daytop or any of the tactics they may have used. He told lies about people and brought up things about others that don't matter as the HIV status of a staff person. You want to keep on going back to his experiences but that is not what I am debating. I never saw a pacifier, could it have happened, perhaps but I never saw it. I've even called a few old students and staff to ask about this because I thought it's been a while maybe I've forgotten but none of them remember anything like that. Again, did it happen, it may have, don't know. It's interesting that those who do remember are those who did not have a pleasant time at Daytop.
My main issue has been his fabrications and stating that he knows something about someone through someone else. That is irresponsible. I get that he may not have known the legalities behind someone who is HIV positive not revealing their HIV status back then but why is that even an issue now. Is he traumatized by the fact that someone who worked there may have been HIV+? He doesn't even have direct knowledge whether anyone is + or not but he makes a point to mention it, why? How does he live not knowing about everyone he comes in contact with? I believe that he brought that up for other reasons that had nothing to do with his trauma. There were also people there with cancer, diabetes, and kidney problems is it an issue that he wasn’t informed about this?
Leroy and Greg were these 2 big black guys. Again what is the issue that they traumatized him or that they were big black guys? He has chosen to assassinate a few characters so I think that that opens him up to scrutiny. Unless you are personal friends with this person are you positively sure that he isn't snowing all of you? You attack honesty for challenging this guy and you are trying to express how I am off base but DO YOU REALLY KNOW. Why are you so ready to believe him and question other points of view?
I'm with honesy, I think that this guy just has to blame someone or thing for his failures and can't accept that he is the problem. It's ironic how he was this normal kid but he's smoking weed and doing Acid. That's real normal dude.
Magnificent:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Magnificent" ---I'm not sure that Leroy didn't smoke with the kids, we never heard of it and we pretty much heard most of what was going on. I personally spent a lot of time with Leroy and I have never known him to smoke pot at that time.
--- End quote ---
Well...if I were Leroy and had half a knuckle of street-smart savvy between my ears, I sure as hell wouldn't let on to a fellow staff member or admin at a drug rehab program, that I ever smoked any pot in my lifetime. :D
--- Quote from: "Magnificent" ---...if a kid was told to wear a pacifier I can assure you it was not with the Director's permission. It was clear to everyone who worked there that physical learning experiences were off limits.
--- End quote ---
Given that many, possibly even most, of the staff working there have been clients of Daytop in the past, do you not think it quite possible that some of these staff may have utilized methods that they were subjected to during their time as clients?
Yeah, the methods supposedly became less brutal as time went on, "official" protocols changed. Perhaps you abided by these changes, and were philosophically in accord with them, but can you honestly say that all of your fellow staff felt deep down as you did?
A lot of the time, people go along with these changes in theory, but in the heat of a frustrated moment, revert back to the old methods...after all, "it worked" for them, right? These are not the kind of incidents that you -- a staff member who would surely disapprove -- would be informed about, unless a fellow staff snitched or let it slip. And given the nature of the program, the chances of a kid complaining about it are seriously reduced.
I'm not just trying to make an academic argument here; this kind of thing frequently happens in organizations that try to make major changes with a lot of the old guard or the old mindset still in place. The term "organizational incest" comes to mind, although it doesn't adequately describe all of what I am trying to say...
--- End quote ---
You may have missed this part but there were only 2 to 3 Daytop Graduates working at that facility at any time so I'm not sure who this guy is talking about. Most of the other staff were college graduates who wanted to work with kids. He's presentling a picuter here of this program full of addicts who had gone through the program and that is the furthest from the truth. This guy just needs to get over it and if he needs therapy get but stop putting his issues on others. If he's messed up he's messed up and he needs to deal with that not with everyone else.
Magnificent:
I would think that if a place were truly as evil as this guy says that Daytop was why have there never been any complaints with the state or legal actions. You can keep on responding to my postings with, "how do you know", but it can easily be checked out with the state. You can also find out why the program closed. That is one fact that can't be disputed, the New York operation decided to pull out of Texas. I would say that if things were that horrible there would be some record of something going on. That program operated in Texas for 10 years and when I run into someone who remembers Daytop they remember the good things as well. Was it all good, probably not but this Sekto describes the house on haunted hill. Perhaps his life is a horror movie I don't know but he is way over the top. This is getting old so signing off.
psy:
--- Quote from: "Magnificent" ---Again, my intention is not to defend Daytop or any of the tactics they may have used. He told lies about people and brought up things about others that don't matter as the HIV status of a staff person. You want to keep on going back to his experiences but that is not what I am debating. I never saw a pacifier, could it have happened, perhaps but I never saw it. I've even called a few old students and staff to ask about this because I thought it's been a while maybe I've forgotten but none of them remember anything like that. Again, did it happen, it may have, don't know. It's interesting that those who do remember are those who did not have a pleasant time at Daytop.
My main issue has been his fabrications and stating that he knows something about someone through someone else. That is irresponsible. I get that he may not have known the legalities behind someone who is HIV positive not revealing their HIV status back then but why is that even an issue now. Is he traumatized by the fact that someone who worked there may have been HIV+? He doesn't even have direct knowledge whether anyone is + or not but he makes a point to mention it, why? How does he live not knowing about everyone he comes in contact with? I believe that he brought that up for other reasons that had nothing to do with his trauma. There were also people there with cancer, diabetes, and kidney problems is it an issue that he wasn’t informed about this?
Leroy and Greg were these 2 big black guys. Again what is the issue that they traumatized him or that they were big black guys? He has chosen to assassinate a few characters so I think that that opens him up to scrutiny. Unless you are personal friends with this person are you positively sure that he isn't snowing all of you? You attack honesty for challenging this guy and you are trying to express how I am off base but DO YOU REALLY KNOW. Why are you so ready to believe him and question other points of view?
--- End quote ---
Well... you obviously see you disagree with his conclusions and opinions, but I can't see a single thing you mentioned in your post where you question the factual accuracy of what he has said.
--- Quote ---I'm with honesy, I think that this guy just has to blame someone or thing for his failures and can't accept that he is the problem. It's ironic how he was this normal kid but he's smoking weed and doing Acid. That's real normal dude.
--- End quote ---
[attachment=0:102adbk8]Picture 497.png[/attachment:102adbk8]
Note the synonyms "usual" or "typical". As I recall, it's fairly usual for teens growing up to smoke pot or even try acid. This does not make them addicts or mean they have a problem.
And what do you know of *his* life that you claim he has failed and is looking for somebody to blame? Furthermore, starting off with statements like "have to wonder if many of you are sitting at computers in some pysch ward playing" will not make you friends or converts to your cause. Maybe if you did a little less below the belt insulting and a little more factual refuting I might take you a little more seriously. As it stands, you're just complaining because you disagree with his interpretation of the events and somehow that offends you. Well boo hoo. Opinions of other people offend me all the time but I respect their right to have them.
psy:
--- Quote from: "Magnificent" ---I would think that if a place were truly as evil as this guy says that Daytop was why have there never been any complaints with the state or legal actions. You can keep on responding to my postings with, "how do you know", but it can easily be checked out with the state. You can also find out why the program closed. That is one fact that can't be disputed, the New York operation decided to pull out of Texas. I would say that if things were that horrible there would be some record of something going on. That program operated in Texas for 10 years and when I run into someone who remembers Daytop they remember the good things as well. Was it all good, probably not but this Sekto describes the house on haunted hill. Perhaps his life is a horror movie I don't know but he is way over the top. This is getting old so signing off.
--- End quote ---
This forum is littered with hundreds of examples of the incompetence or refusal of the state to do much of anything even in the rare cases it's their responsibility (most of the industry is unregulated). Case in point:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/200 ... erg-center
Govt did an inspection, found abuse. Result: place is still open.
Don't trust the govt to hold your hand. Most of the time they'll lead you into a wall.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version