Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
psy:
There is a similar story in Cults in our Midst where a man was made to act like a baby and be in diapers and a crib, IIRC. I think this was in the Center for Feeling Therapy.
SEKTO:
You are welcome, Guest, and I thank you for your continued support and encouragement.
And now for a little more commentary.
As human beings we (or at least, most of us) need to be in relationship to other people. We need others as friends, confidants, lovers, etc. to offer us affirmation, solace, correction, fellowship, etc.
In normal, healthy relationships, however, we also need time and space for ourselves occasionally so we can obtain rest and spend time in reflection. We will on occasion voluntarily give up our personal agenda on occasion to meet an emergency, whether it concerns our family, out community, or our nation. But once the emergency has passed we go back to our normal lives again.
In abusive organization like DAYTOP this personal agenda is seldom if ever granted; the member is almost always, if not always, giving up his own right to privacy and the pursuit of his own goals in order to pursue the goals of the group and to submit to the agenda of his or her authority.
Finally, the process of group building, when it becomes abusive, creates a system that is mutually addictive to both founder(s) and followers. The followers need the founder/leader/organization to make them feel that they are realizing the proffered goal; the founder/leader/organization needs followers (some call them the leader's "narcissistic supply") to make him (O'Brien) feel successful, powerful, and truly enlightened.
It is a truism that to be in one's teens and early twenties (like we Dallas DAYTOPians from the early '90s were) is a most difficult period of life; young people, such as the young people that DAYTOP seems to target (at least back then), are in a major transition period of life from childhood to adulthood. They are beginning to take on or be given greater responsibility over their own lives, making decisions for themselves that some authority-parents, teachers, etc.-formerly made for them. This can be either a heady experience or an unsettling one, often both at the same time. If some one older (like Mr. O'Brien) comes along and offers guidance, even in the form of harsh discipline,this can be experienced as relief from the pressure of decision-making.
Adolescence and early adulthood is a notoriously difficult period of life. It is a transition from childhood to adulthood, with young people wanting and being able to make more decisions for themselves. Decisions that an authority (teacher, parent, etc.) formerly made for them they are now having to make for themselves. And they are having to think about their futures: what career should they pursue? What do they want to look for in a potential mate? What do they believe about the meaning of life? This can be a bit unsettling, even scary, for a lot of young people. If a group like DAYTOP comes along and offers "assistance" in the form of "attack therapy," or even offers to make some or most of those decisions for them, then this can be experienced as a major relief.
I believe that this is how and why the DAYTOP generally only succeeds in enticing people to join the DAYTOP organization as staff/counselors, when the potential recruits are barely adults, whether in an emotional or chronological sense.
Furthermore, in practice, it looks a lot like "Honesty" is deriving his/her sense of self-worth as an individual from his/her involvement with his/her group (DAYTOP).
"Honesty" offers something of a voluntary testimonial as to how wonderful DAYTOP is--for the first time in his/her life he/she feels special and has been given meaning and purpose. This is no doubt true, which is precisely what makes his/her statements so sad.
There is a potential danger with public testimonials, such as "Honesty's" or any of the others made publicly by past or present DAYTOPians. If the testimony is to a person or a human organization (as in this case since, after all, DAYTOP is a human organization which is led by imperfect humans and not by God Himself) there is the possibility that the person or organization may change in time from good to bad. For example, teaching discipline to students or to one's own children is essentially good, and getting them to articulate answers to spoken questions may facilitate learning. But discipline may mutate into abuse, if, for example, the teacher or parent or counselor hits a student with words; with verbal abuse and psychological assaults, humiliation and such. At this point, since Honesty has made a statement praising the DAYTOP it will be much harder for him/her to admit that it is abusive. It is humiliating to have to "eat one's words" and Honesty will more than likely redefine the abuses as "discipline" designed to improve the "dope fiend/druggie" who was hit, humiliated, verbally abused, or otherwise mistreated. After all, if what I am saying is true in all respects, then it would mean that DAYTOP has been abusing kids for the past forty years, and why would DAYTOP or any of its staff want to acknowledge and admit to that?
This is very much like what happens with the woman who is physically abused by her husband. Having expressed her love for him and committed herself to living with him "for better or for worse" she finds it impossible to entertain the thought that he could and would deliberately hurt her. So she redefines the abuse and views it either as discipline to make her a better wife and mother, or as a punishment she deserves for failing to please her husband.
Public testimonies to God or abstract principles like love, patriotism, or the virtues of a lifestyle of absolute sobriety do not carry the same potentiality for negative consequences, for the simple reason that God and abstract principles do not change from good to bad, from healthy to unhealthy.
Virtually any conversion experience will feel similar on the level of emotions, whether the conversion is to Christ, Mohammed, Marx, Monsignor O'Brien, or Elvis.
That does not mean all conversions are the same, just that they feel the same.
And doubtless we'll shortly be hearing the DAYTOPians cry "slander" as a response to my recent posts on the topic of "Honesty" and the source(s) from which he/she derives his/her self esteem, and his/her sense of personal validation. Any criticism of any of DAYTOP or anyone on its staff will be automatically be interpreted as "slander" and/or "persecution" as we all well know.
I would encourage the DAYTOPians to try and remain objective and rational in reflecting on the concepts that I have introduced to the discussion.
SEKTO:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---Were people really forced to walk around with pacifiers in their mouths?
--- End quote ---
Thought I'd ask again since I didn't get an answer.
--- End quote ---
I beg your pardon for not answering this sooner, Anne; I was meaning to get to it today and thanks for reminding me.
Here was my original post, made last 6 December:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26260&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60
--- Quote ---For example: if somebody new was "copping an attitude" we'd "reel them in" by arranging a "haircut" with that person's "big brother" and some "coordinators" or "counselors." We'd confront this person on their "image problem" and "physical attitudes" and then after the "haircut" they'd be given an "L.E." like sitting in The Chair for awhile with a sign on their back, or walking around with a sign that said, "ask me to bark like a dog" or a pacifier on a string around their neck. If the person would still not come around, then they'd be confronted in the "encounter group" and then if they were still had not made the proper attitude adjustment they'd be "called out" before the entire "DAYTOP family" in "morning meeting," which I suppose was a variation of the Fireplace Ritual, in an effort to help "pull them up."
--- End quote ---
To answer your question: I recall Mike Gomez being made to walk around with a pacifier hanging around his neck on a string (like a necklace), but no, I do not recall him actually being made to put it in his mouth. People were told to approach him and ask "Why do you have that pacifier around your neck, Mike?" and he was made to reply, "Because I am such a baby." That was Marcy's idea.
And once I was made to walk around with a sign on my back that said "Ask me to bark like a dog." People would approach me and ask me to bark like a dog, and I would. That was the idea of a coordinator named Nathan Y.
Also I was once made (again, by Marcy) to dance around like a spazz in morning meeting in an effort to "help me" overcome my inhibitions and social shyness. At first I refused, but she told me that we would stay in the meeting for as long as it took, until I danced. It was terribly embarrassing for me, and only added to my hangups. I never forgot the time Marcy kept us in morning meeting for as long as it took in order to make me dance. I felt like an idiot.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "SEKTO" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---Were people really forced to walk around with pacifiers in their mouths?
--- End quote ---
Thought I'd ask again since I didn't get an answer.
--- End quote ---
I beg your pardon for not answering this sooner, Anne; I was meaning to get to it today and thanks for reminding me.
Here was my original post, made last 6 December:
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... a&start=60
--- Quote ---For example: if somebody new was "copping an attitude" we'd "reel them in" by arranging a "haircut" with that person's "big brother" and some "coordinators" or "counselors." We'd confront this person on their "image problem" and "physical attitudes" and then after the "haircut" they'd be given an "L.E." like sitting in The Chair for awhile with a sign on their back, or walking around with a sign that said, "ask me to bark like a dog" or a pacifier on a string around their neck. If the person would still not come around, then they'd be confronted in the "encounter group" and then if they were still had not made the proper attitude adjustment they'd be "called out" before the entire "DAYTOP family" in "morning meeting," which I suppose was a variation of the Fireplace Ritual, in an effort to help "pull them up."
--- End quote ---
To answer your question: I recall Mike Gomez being made to walk around with a pacifier hanging around his neck on a string (like a necklace), but no, I do not recall him actually being made to put it in his mouth. People were told to approach him and ask "Why do you have that pacifier around your neck, Mike?" and he was made to reply, "Because I am such a baby."
And once I was made to walk around with a sign on my back that said "Ask me to bark like a dog." People would approach me and ask me to bark like a dog, and I would.
Also I was once made (by Marcy) to dance around like a spazz in morning meeting in an effort to "help me" overcome my inhibitions and social shyness. At first I refused, but she told me that we would stay in the meeting for as long as it took, until I danced. It was terribly embarrassing for me, and only added to my hangups. I never forgot the time Marcy kept us in morning meeting for as long as it took in order to make me dance. I felt like an idiot.
--- End quote ---
Wow. Sounds familiar though, unfortunately. Break 'em down thru humiliation.
SETKO, I was asking the idiot who was going after you. I believe these things happened because they happened to me in a different program. I was wondering what his thoughts were on this type of "therapy".
SEKTO:
Anne, I slightly edited the post you quoted in order to include the names of the people who thought up these humiliating "LEs."
Marcy was one of the more vicious and confrontational counselors; she was downright sadistic about it really, I'd say.
I used to hate the encounter groups she's run because she'd scream at you until you wanted to hide under your chair.
She'd always scream at me and tell me how phony and shallow and plastic she thought that I was.
She'd counsel me to try and not use big words when I speak to people and told me that she thought it very annoying.
I am as certain as I can be that she once recommended to me that I read Dianetics. That would have been in '93 or '94.
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