Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
DAYTOP Did Me Great Harm in the Long Run
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "Honesty" ---PSY,
I have already elaborated and made the point clearly. "My Group" as you say is just one person who will not allow the few failures of a program to spread lies.
--- End quote ---
You didn't answer the question.
--- End quote ---
Where was I asked a question?
psy:
--- Quote from: "Honesty" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "Honesty" ---PSY,
I have already elaborated and made the point clearly. "My Group" as you say is just one person who will not allow the few failures of a program to spread lies.
--- End quote ---
You didn't answer the question.
--- End quote ---
Where was I asked a question?
--- End quote ---
Are you being dishonest?
"So "recovery" implies more to you than just getting off drugs? That word have a special meaning to members of your group? Wow! I am utterly shocked. Perhaps you can elaborate as to precisely what "recovery" means in your lexicon."
Rephased: To you, does "recovery" imply more than just getting off drugs? Does that word have a special meaning to you? What does "recovery" mean to you (define it)?
SEKTO:
Monsignor O'Brien and the DAYTOP organization have made this person "Honesty" feel good about him or her-self, probably for the first time in his/her life, and "Honesty" wants to do everything he/she can to make sure that nothing further happens to expose DAYTOP and hurt the credibility of the man (O'Brien) and group (DAYTOP) that have given this person his/her new-found improved self-image.
"Honesty's" is a very typical position in most cult groups. People outside of the group are viewed either as potential members or potential enemies of the group. They are not usually considered appropriate for friendships-whether close or casual. They are not seen as adequate individuals in and of themselves.
All cults and abusive organizations view themselves as engaged in some all-important work, whether it is to convert lost souls, spread "The Truth," improve the well-being of members, get people off of drugs, or simply raise money. Nothing can be permitted to interfere with this all-important mission.
"Honesty's" is a classic expression of the "end justifies the means" argument. This is a terrible concept under the best of circumstances, as it permits deception and other unethical behavior in the pursuit of "good" goals. It is especially heinous when followed in the name of helping people.
"Honesty" (and all of the DAYTOPians for that matter) needs to learn that his/her importance and worth as a person does not depend on any role or function that he/she fills in a group-his/her value (and that of all people) rests in the fact that he/she is a human being. One is not more valuable because one possesses a high IQ, has many possessions, lives in a three-story mansion, or has been sober for twenty years.
After all, it is DAYTOP that makes "Honesty" feel so good about him or her-self-so self-confident and worthwhile, probably for the first time in his/her life. He/she may believe that he has no options outside of the group, and that is not a happy prospect for him/her.
So rather than receive the message, he/she attacks the messenger (in this case, myself) through use of the ad hominem attack.
Again, a very typical reaction for someone in an abusive and controlling group. After a certain point it seems that they are unable to refute the logical, objective arguments put to them and so he/she does what people often do in such a situation: they attack DAYTOP's critics personally. If one party to a dispute can discredit the other party in some way, then it is easier to to discredit that person's arguments. This is what the DAYTOPian trolls engage in time after time, argument for the sake of argument, and it is quite a pedantic and tiresome tactic.
Anonymous:
Rephased: To you, does "recovery" imply more than just getting off drugs? Does that word have a special meaning to you? What does "recovery" mean to you (define it)?[/quote]
Recovery has many meanings. It depends upon the person and situation. Being drug free is just part of it. If a person has a drug or alcohol issue. So to answer your question Yes It certainly does mean more me then just getting off drugs!
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "SEKTO" ---Monsignor O'Brien and the DAYTOP organization have made this person "Honesty" feel good about him or her-self, probably for the first time in his/her life, and "Honesty" wants to do everything he can to make sure that nothing further happens to expose DAYTOP and hurt the credibility of the man (O'Brien) and group (DAYTOP) that have given this person his/her new-found improved self-image.
"Honesty's" is a very typical position in most cult groups. People outside of the group are viewed either as potential members or potential enemies of the group. They are not usually considered appropriate for friendships-whether close or casual. They are not seen as adequate individuals in and of themselves.
All cults and abusive organizations view themselves as engaged in some all-important work, whether it is to convert lost souls, spread "The Truth," improve the well-being of members, get people off of drugs, or simply raise money. Nothing can be permitted to interfere with this all-important mission.
"Honesty's" is a classic expression of the "end justifies the means" argument. This is a terrible concept under the best of circumstances, as it permits deception and other unethical behavior in the pursuit of "good" goals. It is especially heinous when followed in the name of helping people.
"Honesty" (and all of the DAYTOPians for that matter) needs to learn that his/her importance and worth as a person does not depend on any role or function that he/she fills in a group-his/her value (and that of all people) rests in the fact that he/she is a human being. One is not more valuable because one possesses a high IQ, has many possessions, lives in a three-story mansion, or has been sober for twenty years.
After all, it is DAYTOP that makes "Honesty" feel so good about him or her-self-so self-confident and worthwhile, probably for the first time in his/her life. He/she may believe that he has no options outside of the group, and that is not a happy prospect for him/her.
So rather than receive the message, he/she attacks the messenger (in this case, myself) through use of the ad hominem attack.
Again, a very typical reaction for someone in an abusive and controlling group. After a certain point it seems that they are unable to refute the logical, objective arguments put to them and so he/she does what people often do in such a situation: they attacks DAYTOP's critics personally. If one party to a dispute can discredit the other party in some way, then it is easier to to discredit that person's arguments. This is what the DAYTOPian trolls engage in time after time, argument for the sake of argument, and it is quite a pedantic and tiresome tactic.
--- End quote ---
What a crock of shit. First let me say that you continue to assume things that just are not true. This is typical of failures and how they tend to think. You can blame Monsignor and Daytop all you want but you know the truth. I only attack the messenger when the words they use are lies. As is the case with you. I take offense to you speaking poorly about individuals who are deceased and who were good people. I also see you have not and likely wont dispute what I have called you on. Instead of maybe saying that the program was not for you and didn't help, you attack the people who tried to help you. You would help more people by maybe recommending other forms of treatment or help. Of course you likely can't since it appears you have not gotten the help you need. So stop the bullshit. Daytop is not for everyone and they never claimed to be. They do help some people and that is a fact. I would love to know what you think Daytops motives are for hurting people as you claim they have.
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