Hey Femanon, my sister is over this weekend with their kids, so it is a little hectic. He broke my rule of smoking in the house and I am a little opissed at both of them. I did this fast, so can I get a "do over" if I contradict myself, was insensative or paint myself in a corner? lol
I find it funny you would make that analogy, because we are the people who would be standing on the pro-choice side of the fence, Hence our focus on protecting the RIGHTS of these children as American citizens.
I have some friends who swould disagree with you. They are staunch pro lifers and would argue that your side of the fence (mine too) is killing the children not saving them. Its all in the perspcective.
And even funnier is that you don't realize the people that run these programs are the ones who would be on the "anti-abortion" side of the fence. And just to let you know, not only would I adopt, I plan to at the point where I am financially capable of doing so. I also have in the past and plan to again volunteer at a women and children's center. and what you might also not know is that I am pursuing my degree in social work and plan to work with struggling teens. I believe your assumptions of me, as well as every other survivor are WAY off base.
We are more alike than I thought. I think we are having difficulty seeing each others view point, though. There are very good people on both sides of the fence. A persons view is based in good part on their experience and also what they have been taught. I don’t fault them for it just because they disagree with me.
But in answer to your question, I really do believe that the existence of an activist group against a certain industry or specific company should be enough for you to question what you think you know about these facilities.
Well it should make everyone question why the activist group exists, but it doesn’t make the activist group right. They could have bad information or biased views. When people protest against abortion clinics it raises awareness but it wont sway everyone to believe in their stance.
Its honestly surprising to me that after all the trouble Psy and I and a few others on this site have gone through to spoon feed you this information that you continue to insult us and attempt to discredit us in everything we say. I guess we too gave you the benefit of the doubt that you might be a good person, regardless of how misguided your views may be, and I hoped that what we had to say could at least have some effect on you that you may be able to see the light. But it really seems like you are intent on believing the lies and supporting this industry, so much that you are willing to literally feed children to this monster.
I have not been insulting, most of the insults were directed at me and ed cons in general. I have been very open minded and understand why you may view programs as you do. I don’t expect to change your view and you shouldn’t expect to change mine. We should both learn from each other and become more moderate and tolerant. I know I am trying, that is why I am posting vs just reading.
So you you consider the number 464 a "few"? because thats how many people have signed up for the antiwwasp survivor list. What about 781? because thats how many people have joined the WWASP group on myspace which states "a place for anyone who has been locked up in a WWASP facility... and thinks its a fucked up place" as well as 418 from a group called WWASP survivors and 525 from the AntiWWASP group. There are other groups with similar numbers called "We Hate WWASP" and "Burn WWASP" and groups dedicated to the individual schools. I have actually recently made a myspace for Darrington Academy and I already have 100 members many who have despite the fact that I made it clear that page is not an "Anti-Darrington Academy" page have told me some very shocking things about this seemingly "good" school and left comments about their distaste for the program. I have also recently joined facebook and have joined another group called "Stop WWASP" which is has only 6 people I know on it the other 558 people are people I never knew and havent spoken to. Also please consider that there are many people who are not on groups, who barely ever get online but who I have spoken to personally over the years and they all agree that the WWASP programs did more harm than good. But all these numbers really pale in comparison to the epic number of people who stand against the Troubled Teen Industry as a whole and I can assure you it is unanimous that we all believe that the way these programs have operated over the years is unethical and needs to be stopped!
I would be too concerned, I dont currently refer to WASPS programs. I have parents come onto fornits and read about programs so many are not interested in them anyway. There are reasons, that I would rather not get into, I have parents read WWASPS web sites.
What I said was "essentially" meaning that was an example of the severity of this situation, when in reality the people that own these schools have physically and psychologically abused kids in the past but in a few instances have sexually abused kids as well and I am not inclined to believe that they aren't doing the same things today. The owners of these programs may not be registered sex offenders, but that is simply because they hide behind incorporation, and anyone attempting to sue or press charges against these men usually just settle outside of court. Those are one of the many get out of jail free cards that the amount of money these people make can buy them.
I understand what you are saying. Sex offenders have ways of moving around and getting back into the system. We all need to be diligent and have these schools perform background checks on all employees. I had 2 kids who went to private boarding schools in Connecticut where the Dean of Students had a record of abuse before he was discovered and removed.
That might be a fair assessment, as my statements, mostly out of pure frustration that you have really refused to see my point, were a bit exaggerated. But my point was this, you refer to WWASP, WWASP has done me harm and I am one in hundreds if not thousands who have stood up and said that they were abused. Its boggles my mind that with the amount of information available that parents could still send their kids to these places and futhermore that people like you are able to convince them to do so. All I can assume is that (and yes there are exceptions) there are many parents out there who are not worried about their child being abused or mistreated and in fact are intending on this experience being painful for them in order to punish them for their rebellious behavior. That to me is evil. You can dissagree and assume every parent is really hoping that their child gets "help" but I will let you know that MANY parents have no idea what would help their child, even if they indeed needed it. I base my assuption on "what you do" by the fact that, at the beginning of your posting here, you referred a woman who's only problem with her kids was that he was smoking weed to a WWASP program. Which I'm sure is pretty much a daily thing for you... and if it wasn't I think you would have told us that you dont refer to WWASP, that you have NEVER referred to Tranquility Bay in Jamacia or Casa By The Sea in Mexico. But you have not. So I cant just assume that your team has done the proper amount of "research" to be aware that these schools had (before their clousure) been abusing kids for years! You also arent aware that the staff members that abused kids in mexico now work or opened up their own schools in the US. Why is this not a read flag for you?
I wouldn’t sweat the WWASP thing and I don’t refer kids to programs for smoking pot. My sister and her husband smoke all the time (which I am not happy about right now and don’t feel very open minded today) and they have 3 kids in the house.
The reason I disagree with you very last statement is because I think the problem lies within the parents and the Ed-Cons not DEMANDING specific changes before they would ever trust their child to a program. Furthermore I am of the opinion that some individuals should be banned from ever working with children again and both parents and Ed-Cons should be aware of who these people are and refuse to give them business. These practices would effectively weed out the bad schools and only the schools that were intent on doing things in a safe, ethical and helpful way would be able to exist. An investigation/ regulation method on the part of the Ed-Con's would also make this a reality. I never said you should drop out and never refer a child to a program, although many of us would appreciate one less Ed-Con, in fact I think your purpose would be better served implementing the necessary changes to ensure that abuse in residential treatment programs is abolished. What I dont understand is why everytime I have mentioned this you skirt the conversation and just assume that I think your evil and want you to quit. No, in fact I gave you a really good idea that I have never trusted any other Ed-Con with because I actually believe that you have good intentions here and if you could just allow yourself to hear what we are saying to you you might be able to make a bit of a difference.
Look, we asked you to list one good program and I dont doubt that good programs exist. If I had the time and money to properly investigate all the programs I bet you I would be able to find a few that I would be confident to tell you they are "good" programs. But the problem is I do not have the ability to properly investigate and it is very hard for me to take your word for it or make up my mind based on the brochures or information I may get from a website. I really think that if you and the rest of the Ed-Con's were doing your job to properly investigate and regulate these programs I would be able to agree that working somewhere in the middle would be the best solution. As it stands tho, you people are only working on the side of this abusive industry, there is no middle ground here especially when you are intent on discrediting anyone who speaks out. If you were working in the middle you would use our advice and create a way to safe guard against institutionalized child abuse. But you don't do that Kathy, and neither do any of the Ed Con's and that is why more kids are being abused today, and the people that abuse them continue to get away with it.
There is a lot of work being done in this area, trying to prevent abuse within the industry has been very difficult and we have tried what you have suggested. The industry lacks a regulatory agency where we could centralize the information and empower people to react and close schools down. An area we are persuing is a central database which has everyones name who works with children and their history, cory,INS etc.. this would apply to all schools this way we can piggy back the system which would get federal funding for the public school system. It is in the works and will have information available similar to what doctors and hospitals have.. number of lawsuits, claims against etc.
Femanon fatal. I understand your frustration, I work in this system everyday and deal with people who do not believe a child should be sent away from the home period, no matter how good the school is or successful a solution. I have met people who feel every child would benefit from a few months away in a structured environment. Everyone has an opinion and a valid reason for it and I think that is good although challenging.
It would be helpful on your end to use all the information at fornits disposal to form a list of the “Best and the worst” programs. This would help keep some kids from attending the programs which could be very damaging to them instead of telling parents they are all the same or all equally abusive. Have you ever thought of that? I feel this could be constructive and you have lots of information here on fornits, what do you think?
Kathy
