Why spend a year in a program when it can be done in a week

[Anonymous]

So, anyway, we have children who are being held accountable maybe for the first time in their lives. Forced to do chores, homework, clean up after themselves, eat healthy, take a shower, go to bed the same time every night. Do you think they will call home and tell their parents the school is abusive? People are not being fair? They don’t feed me? Of course.

This is bullshit.  Who the hell would think to complain about THAT.  That is normal life, life at any normal school.

NO.. people experience trauma when they have been subjected to their peers turning on them  in a maggot-laying frenzy, or when they have been coerced to behave the same way towards others.  Not to mention adults doing it too as a matter of course, adults suppsedly superior as far as life experience goes.  Then there are the actual physical abuses that occur, when the adults or even kids get too carried away.  THOSE are always swept under the rug and its business as usual. And then your told that everything that ever happened to you is a pack of lies.  Or they change it, re-fabricate the whole event, LIE through their teeth to cover their sorry asses to protect their sleazy form of livlihood, and change the story to represent the kid as having instigated it all.

Seriously, what sane human being could ever trust the rest of the world again, let alone their parents who chose to believe the PR experts rather than their own flesh and blood.

[Anonymous]

It is from a staff person who has left HLA and has moved on.

And.....?   What's the point in relation to what she posted to you?

So, anyway, we have children who are being held accountable maybe for the first time in their lives.  Forced to do chores, homework, clean up after themselves, eat healthy, take a shower, go to bed the same time every night.  Do you think they will call home and tell their parents the school is abusive?  People are not being fair?  They don’t feed me? Of course.  
So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?  

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.

Not surprising you would want it to be seen that way, however those of us who have been exposed to this type of "treatment" damn well KNOW it to be abusive and not the harmless 'tough love' that you're so desperately trying to make it out to be.

There's a reason for OUR desperation to get out of there.  It's a goddamn abusive nightmare that we couldn't wake up from.  Unqualified staff in charge of "treatment" of kids who no one really knows even NEED "treatment".  Harass, berate and humiliate and punish them into 'accepting the help'.  Mostly, it's uptight parents freaking out over behavioral problems or finding a joint in junior's room.  Or the ivy league parents that can't stand to think about junior not becoming a lawyer or doctor.  [GASP!!!!!!!!]  ::OMG::

What you just said right up there ^^^^ (the lies) is exactly what sells parents on programs.  You guys use whatever fear the parent naturally has and capitalize on it.  Then you offer them this amazing solution to the spoiled little brats who just don't want to listen to their parents.  It's very effective.  Dangerous and ultimately extremely unfortunate for those kids who get trapped in there, but effective.  Conformity for all, critical thinking for none.  ::puke::

[Anonymous]

So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.

More elitist crap.  The haves vs. the have-nots (adult perspective).  At what point do I achieve cred, Who?   When I am 30?  40?  50? Cause I'm right up there, in case you wanna know.

I have a face for the world, a most respectable and responsible face.  And it is a real face, it IS who I am......but I have these horrible memories buzzing around in my brain, from when I was in program, that make me doubt who I am, and whether I can even go on anymore. Seriously, every day I have a ritual, to "thank g-d or whoever for this wondrous day", cause if I dont, whats buzzing around up there might just get too believable for me and I have responsiblities that I cant afford to shirk. I cant imagine that any parent would knowingly want this for their kid.

[TheWho]

Duct Taped wrote:

I can't even imagine what type of person trolls people telling their testimony of abuse, it's almost unimaginable to me that such a disturbed person would exist. Yet here one is, claiming to be a program parent. That would make sense, since I've seen program parents do abusive things, and pay to have abusive things done to their child.

This is good that TheWho is posting truthfully about how he finds abuse funny, as sad and disturbing as it may be, it's the only way to show how program parents really are. Sure, some might be ignorant. But most, like TheWho, are sociopathic sadists with the money to implement their demented fantasies.  

The sad truth to it all is that you have done it to yourselves.  You try to have it both ways and it just kills everyones credibility here.  You cant accept every story from a poster which shows programs in a negative light as gospel truth and then turn around and discredit and discard every pro-program event or story.  Everyone is so desperate to get their version of the negative info out that they forget how foolish they look trying.  If you were more confident in what you believe in you would accept and treat all information equally.

The humor, I find, isn’t in the details of every story but in the fact that you believe them all and disbelieve the kids who tell a whole different side.  Ask someone who has never been on fornits before to give you feedback.  After about the third or fourth page of reading you begin to realize all the information is filtered.  Not every car is a lemon not every apple is bruised, we all instinctively know there is natural variation built into every single aspect of life without exception and if anyone tells you otherwise you know them to be a liar.

So I am not laughing at the kid who says he was wrapped in duct tape from head to toe and then thrown into the ocean during the height of a typhoon, I am laughing at you for believing it and taking it at face value and then rejecting the story of a child who comes here to tell everyone how the program they attended changed their life for the better.  You are too involved in this to be able to step back and see it for yourself.



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[Anonymous]

Duct Taped wrote:

I can't even imagine what type of person trolls people telling their testimony of abuse, it's almost unimaginable to me that such a disturbed person would exist. Yet here one is, claiming to be a program parent. That would make sense, since I've seen program parents do abusive things, and pay to have abusive things done to their child.

This is good that TheWho is posting truthfully about how he finds abuse funny, as sad and disturbing as it may be, it's the only way to show how program parents really are. Sure, some might be ignorant. But most, like TheWho, are sociopathic sadists with the money to implement their demented fantasies.  

The sad truth to it all is that you have done it to yourselves.  You try to have it both ways and it just kills everyones credibility here.  You cant accept every story from a poster which shows programs in a negative light as gospel truth and then turn around and discredit and discard every pro-program event or story.  Everyone is so desperate to get their version of the negative info out that they forget how foolish they look trying.  If you were more confident in what you believe in you would accept and treat all information equally.

The humor, I find, isn’t in the details of every story but in the fact that you believe them all and disbelieve the kids who tell a whole different side.  Ask someone who has never been on fornits before to give you feedback.  After about the third or fourth page of reading you begin to realize all the information is filtered.  Not every car is a lemon not every apple is bruised, we all instinctively know there is natural variation built into every single aspect of life without exception and if anyone tells you otherwise you know them to be a liar.

So I am not laughing at the kid who says he was wrapped in duct tape from head to toe and then thrown into the ocean during the height of a typhoon, I am laughing at you for believing it and taking it at face value and then rejecting the story of a child who comes here to tell everyone how the program they attended changed their life for the better.  You are too involved in this to be able to step back and see it for yourself.



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This "who" is not the regular "who." This who’s writing style is different. I guess the who is lou woodbury, then man who tortured and murdered helpless young adults and cedu, and his wife. Thewho is definitely a group effort.

Why are we not allowed to post images and this filthy youth murderer allowed to post?
I thought he “sold” his login identity?
If you want to post his I.P. I will give you his name. Seriously. This absurdity has to stop

[Anonymous]

Duct Taped wrote:

I can't even imagine what type of person trolls people telling their testimony of abuse, it's almost unimaginable to me that such a disturbed person would exist. Yet here one is, claiming to be a program parent. That would make sense, since I've seen program parents do abusive things, and pay to have abusive things done to their child.

This is good that TheWho is posting truthfully about how he finds abuse funny, as sad and disturbing as it may be, it's the only way to show how program parents really are. Sure, some might be ignorant. But most, like TheWho, are sociopathic sadists with the money to implement their demented fantasies.  

The sad truth to it all is that you have done it to yourselves.  You try to have it both ways and it just kills everyones credibility here.  You cant accept every story from a poster which shows programs in a negative light as gospel truth and then turn around and discredit and discard every pro-program event or story.  Everyone is so desperate to get their version of the negative info out that they forget how foolish they look trying.  If you were more confident in what you believe in you would accept and treat all information equally.

The humor, I find, isn’t in the details of every story but in the fact that you believe them all and disbelieve the kids who tell a whole different side.  Ask someone who has never been on fornits before to give you feedback.  After about the third or fourth page of reading you begin to realize all the information is filtered.  Not every car is a lemon not every apple is bruised, we all instinctively know there is natural variation built into every single aspect of life without exception and if anyone tells you otherwise you know them to be a liar.

So I am not laughing at the kid who says he was wrapped in duct tape from head to toe and then thrown into the ocean during the height of a typhoon, I am laughing at you for believing it and taking it at face value and then rejecting the story of a child who comes here to tell everyone how the program they attended changed their life for the better.  You are too involved in this to be able to step back and see it for yourself.



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Uhuh, but you freak, "programs" are a bit different than cars. They are supposedly medical treatments. No scientificly valid proof has EVER been provided that proves ANY program does anything but HURT its detainees. Because we are sepaking of MEDICAL TREATMENTS, not cars, minus proof of sucess we can assuredly say that NO porgram works. You can't say you've cured cancer without proof and you can't say you've treated mental illness without proof. Thus, no program works.

Further, because "programs" abduct and hold prisoner youth without due process, serving as rentable gulags, we can further say they are all bad, as they are all commit that crime, that traumatizing violation, that mentally degrading exploiation, prima facie. You murderer, you sleazy, freaky child killer.

[TheWho]

Okay, who gave DASD a tin foil hat?

[Froderik]

Further, because "programs" abduct and hold prisoner youth without due process, serving as rentable gulags, we can further say they are all bad, as they are all commit that crime, that traumatizing violation, that mentally degrading exploiation, prima facie.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

A survivor could post that 50% of what programs tell parents is lies to cover their asses from liability. You would challenge that statement and demand proof. Yet this staff makes an opinionated statement with nothing to back it and you use it to question a program survivor's credibility?

 It is from a staff person who has left HLA and has moved on.

So, anyway, we have children who are being held accountable maybe for the first time in their lives.  Forced to do chores, homework, clean up after themselves, eat healthy, take a shower, go to bed the same time every night.  Do you think they will call home and tell their parents the school is abusive?  People are not being fair?  They don’t feed me? Of course.  
So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?  

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.



...

Sometimes the staff are the desperate ones facing criminal charges, but they're automatically believed?  You're gullible and an easily led sheep.  Your blanket defense that kids are lying and program staff are always trustworthy is more than naive, it's moronic and reckless.  

Not all kids are sent to RTC's because they're fucking up.  Anorexics, depressives, kids with ADHD and you're assuming they're all lazy punks who are going to claim they're being harmed to get out?  Shit.  Tell that to the dead kids who were never heard.  Some kids actually participate in picking a program.  You know that, don't you?  So they start lying to "escape"?    You really are obtuse.

And again:  If the kid says they're being harmed, reporting the allegation is MANDATORY in all fifty states.  It's mandatory for the parents to report it despite the programs dismissal of such claims as manipulation.  There are too many dead kids.  Why would any parent take your attitude that their kids are automatically lying?  Not everyone is going to be a sheep like you and blindly follow what strangers in an RTC say over their children.  That kind of blind faith is stupid, who, and by encouraging parents to disregard their child's reports of abuse you are encouraging them to break the law.  If a kid reported being physically harmed in an RTC to his parents or staff and then died from abuse I would want the parents charged with negligent homicide, failure to report abuse allegations.  I'd like to see staff who kill held accountable and sentenced accordingly for homicide.  It didn't happen in Brendan Blum's case.  The people who let Brendan lay there all night in agony before dying walked.  The people who were paid to be responsible for him denied responsibility and no one answered for the negligence thal killed Brendan.

[Anonymous]

Okay, who gave DASD a tin foil hat?

I hate the "tin foil hat" expression. Tell ya what, who not logged in. Since you spend so much time writing here, you nutty cult shill, learn a new cliche?

But which part of dasd's post do you think is crazy? The part about science demanding proof of effectiveness and safety before allowing a group to claim a ritual or pill is "treatment."

 Be glad your ignorance is not shared by scientists, or you'd be drinking urine to treat your breast cancer, or "vapers" as we'd think of it.

[Froderik]

Not all kids are sent to RTC's because they're fucking up.  Anorexics, depressives, kids with ADHD and you're assuming they're all lazy punks who are going to claim they're being harmed to get out?  Shit.  Tell that to the dead kids who were never heard.  Some kids actually participate in picking a program.  You know that, don't you?  So they start lying to "escape"?    You really are obtuse.

And again:  If the kid says they're being harmed, reporting the allegation is MANDATORY in all fifty states.  It's mandatory for the parents to report it despite the programs dismissal of such claims as manipulation.  There are too many dead kids.  Why would any parent take your attitude that their kids are automatically lying?  Not everyone is going to be a sheep like you and blindly follow what strangers in an RTC say over their children.  That kind of blind faith is stupid, who, and by encouraging parents to disregard their child's reports of abuse you are encouraging them to break the law.  If a kid reported being physically harmed in an RTC to his parents or staff and then died from abuse I would want the parents charged with negligent homicide, failure to report abuse allegations.  I'd like to see staff who kill held accountable and sentenced accordingly for homicide.  It didn't happen in Brendan Blum's case.  The people who let Brendan lay there all night in agony before dying walked.  The people who were paid to be responsible for him denied responsibility and no one answered for the negligence thal killed Brendan.

It's good to hear this stated so plainly and succinctly; well said.

[TheWho]

Sometimes the staff are the desperate ones facing criminal charges, but they're automatically believed? You're gullible and an easily led sheep.

Yes, sometimes.  There is natural variation in all situations.  We see the crooked cop, judge, priest etc.  Just because we tend to believe a police officer or students teacher doesn’t mean we are being mislead.

 

Your blanket defense that kids are lying and program staff are always trustworthy is more than naive, it's moronic and reckless.

Not saying all kids are lying.  I am saying the kids are in a position where they feel uncomfortable and powerless compared to their previous lives.  We all know what desparate people tend to do.

Not all kids are sent to RTC's because they're fucking up. Anorexics, depressives, kids with ADHD and you're assuming they're all lazy punks who are going to claim they're being harmed to get out? Shit. Tell that to the dead kids who were never heard. Some kids actually participate in picking a program. You know that, don't you? So they start lying to "escape"? You really are obtuse.

Every child is different and some do not belong in residential treatment.  I believe it would help to have a third party sign off on all placements.  This would help alleviate those kids being placed that should not be there.

And again: If the kid says they're being harmed, reporting the allegation is MANDATORY in all fifty states. It's mandatory for the parents to report it despite the programs dismissal of such claims as manipulation.

Exactly, if a child says they are being harmed then sure any parent would report it.  I am talking about the kids who are not willing to work and may fabricate stories to try to get out.

There are too many dead kids.

1 child is too many in my opinion.

Why would any parent take your attitude that their kids are automatically lying? Not everyone is going to be a sheep like you and blindly follow what strangers in an RTC say over their children. That kind of blind faith is stupid, who, and by encouraging parents to disregard their child's reports of abuse you are encouraging them to break the law. If a kid reported being physically harmed in an RTC to his parents or staff and then died from abuse I would want the parents charged with negligent homicide, failure to report abuse allegations.

I believe any parent who feels their child is in danger would call the authorities, pull their child immediately.  I know I would.

 

I'd like to see staff who kill held accountable and sentenced accordingly for homicide. It didn't happen in Brendan Blum's case. The people who let Brendan lay there all night in agony before dying walked. The people who were paid to be responsible for him denied responsibility and no one answered for the negligence thal killed Brendan.

That was tragic situation, indeed.  But not all situations are the same, not every school is a columbine or every teacher a rapist.  We cant just shut down the entire industry because of a few bad apples.  We cant shut down the police force because of crooked cops or public schools because of abusive teachers.  We need to keep working to make these places safe.

If you bought a bad bag of weed would you want to kill the dealer?  Bomb Columbia?  Wipe out every dealer on the planet? Maybe if a loved one died you would!  And it would be a normal reaction.  So I am able to see why people get this upset.  But, unlike many here, I also see the benefit these schools and programs have provided to many kids and their families.  These are the stories you do not read about here on fornits.



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[Anonymous]

Sometimes the staff are the desperate ones facing criminal charges, but they're automatically believed? You're gullible and an easily led sheep.

Yes, sometimes.  There is natural variation in all situations.  We see the crooked cop, judge, priest etc.  Just because we tend to believe a police officer or students teacher doesn’t mean we are being mislead.

 

Your blanket defense that kids are lying and program staff are always trustworthy is more than naive, it's moronic and reckless.

Not saying all kids are lying.  I am saying the kids are in a position where they feel uncomfortable and powerless compared to their previous lives.  We all know what desparate people tend to do.

Not all kids are sent to RTC's because they're fucking up. Anorexics, depressives, kids with ADHD and you're assuming they're all lazy punks who are going to claim they're being harmed to get out? Shit. Tell that to the dead kids who were never heard. Some kids actually participate in picking a program. You know that, don't you? So they start lying to "escape"? You really are obtuse.

Every child is different and some do not belong in residential treatment.  I believe it would help to have a third party sign off on all placements.  This would help alleviate those kids being placed that should not be there.

And again: If the kid says they're being harmed, reporting the allegation is MANDATORY in all fifty states. It's mandatory for the parents to report it despite the programs dismissal of such claims as manipulation.

Exactly, if a child says they are being harmed then sure any parent would report it.  I am talking about the kids who are not willing to work and may fabricate stories to try to get out.

There are too many dead kids.

1 child is too many in my opinion.

Why would any parent take your attitude that their kids are automatically lying? Not everyone is going to be a sheep like you and blindly follow what strangers in an RTC say over their children. That kind of blind faith is stupid, who, and by encouraging parents to disregard their child's reports of abuse you are encouraging them to break the law. If a kid reported being physically harmed in an RTC to his parents or staff and then died from abuse I would want the parents charged with negligent homicide, failure to report abuse allegations.

I believe any parent who feels their child is in danger would call the authorities, pull their child immediately.  I know I would.

 

I'd like to see staff who kill held accountable and sentenced accordingly for homicide. It didn't happen in Brendan Blum's case. The people who let Brendan lay there all night in agony before dying walked. The people who were paid to be responsible for him denied responsibility and no one answered for the negligence thal killed Brendan.

That was tragic situation, indeed.  But not all situations are the same, not every school is a columbine or every teacher a rapist.  We cant just shut down the entire industry because of a few bad apples.  We cant shut down the police force because of crooked cops or public schools because of abusive teachers.  We need to keep working to make these places safe.

If you bought a bad bag of weed would you want to kill the dealer?  Bomb Columbia?  Wipe out every dealer on the planet? Maybe if a loved one died you would!  And it would be a normal reaction.  So I am able to see why people get this upset.  But, unlike many here, I also see the benefit these schools and programs have provided to many kids and their families.  These are the stories you do not read about here on fornits.



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Child murderer, please name one program that "works."

Please direct me to one medically sound, peer review study that has proved the effectiveness of any program. Please, please do that.

[Anonymous]

I believe any parent who feels their child is in danger would call the authorities, pull their child immediately.  I know I would.

...

What?

So, If you have to choose which person is more apt in this situation to tell the truth would it be a staff person who works with these kids 40+ hours a week or a kid who is desperate to get the hell out of there?

The desperate kid or the program staff?

I don’t think this would make it too far down the debate path once we weigh credibility of statements.

...

Huh.  Sounds like you're very confused.  How would you know your child is in danger if you use that logic to "weigh credibility of statements"?  Parents aren't allowed to see their kids for a considerable length of time in some programs, they only have short phone calls.  You say one thing to look like you give a shit and aren't a soulless bitch, but ^^^^^^^^see above.  You're going to gamble with  your kids well being and assume the actions of a line staff goon you've never seen are professional.  Moron.  Quit spouting your reckless shit, some parent as dumb as you might take your advice.  Be accountable for your posts you most pungent cunt.

[TheWho]

Huh. Sounds like you're very confused. How would you know your child is in danger if you use that logic to "weigh credibility of statements"? Parents aren't allowed to see their kids for a considerable length of time in some programs, they only have short phone calls.

It only takes a few minutes to rape or kill a child.  It could happen on a school bus, walking home.  I think what a parent needs to do is visit the program campus, speak to other parents who had kids attend and then base their decision on some informed data.


 

You say one thing to look like you give a shit and aren't a soulless bitch, but ^^^^^^^^see above. You're going to gamble with your kids well being and assume the actions of a line staff goon you've never seen are professional. Moron. Quit spouting your reckless shit, some parent as dumb as you might take your advice. Be accountable for your posts you most pungent cunt.

I have been very consistent.  You on the other hand don’t seem very professional or concerned with any of these kids welfare or you would be helping instead of blocking any kids from getting help.

@dfdf:

Please direct me to one medically sound, peer review study that has proved the effectiveness of any program. Please, please do that.

Why not try to provide evidence or a study the concludes attending a public school is a safer environment that a TBS.  Try to convince a parent that their child will not be harmed on the bus or shot at school or bullied.

If you cant do that then provide me one public school in which a child was never abused.



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