Author Topic: we were turned into complete victims?  (Read 1047 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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we were turned into complete victims?
« on: July 17, 2008, 03:51:24 PM »
Programs are regularly open for 30 years, abducting, torturing (killing, regularly enough) youth.


Some, like CEDU, don't remain open soley because of  corruption.

CA. was willing to go forward with prosecution against CEDU officials. But CEDU victims wouldn't come froward in great enough #s to make the case winnable, so charges were dropped.

Why did this happen? Why are victims so traumatized they won't self-advocate?  Is this an issue epidemic enough that it's largely responsible for programs owners inevitably getting away with their crimes?

Discuss!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 04:26:29 PM »
Quote from: "chronic victims"
Programs are regularly open for 30 years, abducting, torturing (killing, regularly enough) youth.


Some, like CEDU, don't remain open soley because of  corruption.

CA. was willing to go forward with prosecution against CEDU officials. But CEDU victims wouldn't come froward in great enough #s to make the case winnable, so charges were dropped.

Why did this happen? Why are victims so traumatized they won't self-advocate?  Is this an issue epidemic enough that it's largely responsible for programs owners inevitably getting away with their crimes?

Discuss!

(some of) My theories and opinions:

1. In program we were trained not to look out for others, but to report on them and more or less turned into animals.  That sticks for a while, few resist, and those who do are so broken by the end they don't bother fighting anymore. Nobody survives untouched.

2. Nobody wants to have such a stigma attached to their name as not only attending such a school, but also having to testify to such things in court, and giving staff the opportunity to bring forth "confessions" such as dirt lists and propheet disclosures.

3. Financial resources: what survivors who just get out of a program have enough money, or are able to convince a lawyer to take the case pro-bono, or are otherwise going to be bothering doing research when they are probably much more worried about day to day survival.

4. Many are brainwashed:  Read some Margaret Singer / Robert Lifton / Richard Ofshe / Janja Lalich about this.  By the time it wears off, the statute of limitations has long since expired.

5. (lack of) parental support:  The entire program the parents have been told that thier kid is a manipulative fuckup etc etc...  Now try convincing that parent to bankroll or otherwise support a lawsuit.  On the contrary, i'm sure many parents would outright testify against their own kids.  Kids may not know much about the law, but those who do, or can imagine such a case, know this to be true.

6. Lack of trust to actually tell the parents about stuff:  Kids learn in programs that if they tell their parents about event X abuse Y or instance of fraud / misrepresentation Z, the parents are always going to believe the program, especially since the allegations are usually so, on their faces, outright absurd (until you think about it and realize that the program directors know this and thus can get away with a big lie more than a little one).

7. Home contracts:  Many kids who do return to their parents homes and for some fluke / lack of financial resources do not wind up in another program / "transitional program" are held to "home contracts" (called different things by different programs) in which they are often forbidden to speak about the program.  The contracts stipulate grave consequences if violated and often the youth is terrified into compliance (or takes a leap of faith, gets disbelieved, and "consequenced").

8. Lack of networking: Ever tried searching facebook, myspace, or other resources for contact information of kids who were in program with you.  Then out of those few who you do find, see how many would be willing to testify.  My guess is that star corroborating witness you're looking for is going to require a subpoena and would end up being either quite hostile or quite forgetful on the stand.

9. Lack of education about "therapy":  Well, think about it.  When you were in program, you were told X was "therapy" (or in the case of programs now,"emotional growth").  You had no other concept of the word and thus considered X to be "therapy".  It's only later, when you research "therapy" or (shock, horror) end up on fornits.com or accidentally read some material on cults and/or brainwashing, you find out that what went on was not, actually, therapy... it was outright unprofessional if not in many cases abusive... moreover the program was designed to manipulate you, and although you might have figured out the program was bullshit before, you couldn't quite put your fingers on exactly how the stings of the students, parents and staff were pulled.  It all falls into place, but usually far, far too late to make a court case out of depending on the statute of limitations in the state.  This is why I advocate educating kids as soon as they get out of programs and this strategy seems to be supported by some of Margaret Singer's suggestions on cult exit counseling.

Anyway.  I could go on but I think you see the point I'm trying to make.  It's not like there is just one "line of defense" preventing masses of kids from suing programs... it's a whole host of them set up very strategically to make sure the programs continue to operate in the same fashion unabated.  If each "line of defense" cuts the probability of a suit by even 50%, the cumulative effect is: your odds are not good.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 05:49:00 PM by psy »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 08:40:24 PM »
Too emotionally difficult. Already lived through it once. Too painful to revisit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 09:05:53 PM »
Mabye it's something deeper, though--at least with me it is. I contemplated going to the cops. But --i was too ashamed of myself. This not defending myself because of shame goes beyond not standing up to my gulag-cult. I've been physically assaulted, sexually assaulted..going to the police was something i was too ashamed to do.. too afraid to do. I wasn't ashamed just of what had been done to me...i was ashamed of myself, period. I have no...self worth? but it'ts more profound than  simply "low self esteem."

I don't know how to explain it; I'd like to hear from anyone with psych knowledge? How could extreme brainwashing  cause this to happen with me?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CCM girl 1989

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 11:39:55 AM »
Quote from: "KII"
Mabye it's something deeper, though--at least with me it is. I contemplated going to the cops. But --i was too ashamed of myself. This not defending myself because of shame goes beyond not standing up to my gulag-cult. I've been physically assaulted, sexually assaulted..going to the police was something i was too ashamed to do.. too afraid to do. I wasn't ashamed just of what had been done to me...i was ashamed of myself, period. I have no...self worth? but it'ts more profound than  simply "low self esteem."

I don't know how to explain it; I'd like to hear from anyone with psych knowledge? How could extreme brainwashing  cause this to happen with me?


I just wanted you to know I read what you had to say, and I am very sorry for whatever happened to you. You shouldn't feel ashamed about anything. They should. I understand that it takes a lot of emotional energy to stand up to these places. But, if you don't........they will continue to abuse. They are very skilled at manipulating kids. Making you feel like they really do love you, so you won't say anything. Or saying that they are sorry, but you brought it on.

I'm learning every day. It's taken years to put the pieces of the puzzle I do have together. Sometimes, I feel like I am the one fucked up. And I am sure I am in some ways!!!! Anyway, it helps to write things down. At least it did for me? It helped me sort my thoughts. It also made me feel safe that God forbid something did happen to me, that they would know which direction to go. That made me feel better.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline psy

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 07:22:02 PM »
Amen, CCM.  Couldn't agree with your statements more.  There are so many many reasons, but, you're right.  If nobody stands up and at least says something, it does and will continue.  It does take sacrifice and it's not always rewarded (sometimes outright punishing and painful), but it's also rewarding knowing that if you convince even one parent not to make a placement, that kid didn't have to go through what you did (or worse).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 09:14:57 PM »
Because  nobody cares.  :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: we were turned into complete victims?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 10:28:58 PM »
I would have come forward.  

I just didn't know about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »