TELLing shrinks about programs

[Anonymous]

I had the chance to speak in front of a bunch of mental health pros about abusive programs.  The response was mixed.  They're conflicted - some want to abolish involuntary teen residential treatment, some want to "reform" the beast.  All you can do is hammer away at the issue, but a lot of them are hearing the message.

[psy]

I had the chance to speak in front of a bunch of mental health pros about abusive programs.  The response was mixed.  They're conflicted - some want to abolish involuntary teen residential treatment, some want to "reform" the beast.  All you can do is hammer away at the issue, but a lot of them are hearing the message.

If that was your mixed reaction, you're doing a very good job.  I'd love to hear what you argued.

[Anonymous]

It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling.  There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE.  (Not the same militant Philadelphia group)  The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.

[Dr Fucktard]

A graduate from Straight Inc by The Sea (SIBS) has the equivalent of two years of applied psychology.

[psy]

It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling.  There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE.  (Not the same militant Philadelphia group)  The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.

Not sure everybody together in one organized movement is entirely a good idea for a variety of reasons too many to get into here, but if it helps bring dialogue to this issue, it's still a good thing.  WIth me, it's a few key points:

• Liberty - Treatment that is involuntary isn't really treatment.  It's re-education (i could get into this at length).  informed consent...  due process...
• Cultic origins and practices- Where the industry and it's methods came from, why they don't work, why they harm, etc...  (point to lifton, singer, Ofshe)
• track records of programs - how regulation has failed in the past, how efforts to harness cultic groups that see themselves as higher than the law is bound to fail, ways programs get out of regulation, loopholes, lack of enforcement, misrepresentation to the public.

See.  Now some people disagree (which is the problem with an orgainzation, rather than a collective).  Some people think that the liberty argument is too far too soon.  Some people also feel that the cultic origins argument alienates people at the mere mention of the word.  Some also feel abolition is impossible, and as such, regulation must be an option, even if it hasn't worked in the past.  That's why I don't like centralized organizations.  I feel that if the three above issues aren't sufficiently addressed, we'll be repeating the mistakes of the past...  Some also feel that abuse is the key issue to to deal with.  I feel it's best left explained as an inevitable effect that is allowed to happen as a result of the above three causes...  Better to treat the cause than the symptoms...  but this has been debated here before.

[Anonymous]

It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling.  There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE.  (Not the same militant Philadelphia group)  The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.

Not sure everybody together in one organized movement is entirely a good idea for a variety of reasons too many to get into here, but if it helps bring dialogue to this issue, it's still a good thing.  WIth me, it's a few key points:

• Liberty - Treatment that is involuntary isn't really treatment.  It's re-education (i could get into this at length).  informed consent...  due process...
• Cultic origins and practices- Where the industry and it's methods came from, why they don't work, why they harm, etc...  (point to lifton, singer, Ofshe)
• track records of programs - how regulation has failed in the past, how efforts to harness cultic groups that see themselves as higher than the law is bound to fail, ways programs get out of regulation, loopholes, lack of enforcement, misrepresentation to the public.

See.  Now some people disagree (which is the problem with an orgainzation, rather than a collective).  Some people think that the liberty argument is too far too soon.  Some people also feel that the cultic origins argument alienates people at the mere mention of the word.  Some also feel abolition is impossible, and as such, regulation must be an option, even if it hasn't worked in the past.  That's why I don't like centralized organizations.  I feel that if the three above issues aren't sufficiently addressed, we'll be repeating the mistakes of the past...  Some also feel that abuse is the key issue to to deal with.  I feel it's best left explained as an inevitable effect that is allowed to happen as a result of the above three causes...  Better to treat the cause than the symptoms...  but this has been debated here before.

Agreed on all of that.  The rights of a minor are the same as an adult, but parental rights are the issue.  Lon Woodbury wrote about that, illogical as always.  

Here's one thing I learned at the presentation:  Washington state will not allow involuntary residential incarceration of anyone 13 and above.  The result:  WA is the leading kid "exporter" - kids get dragged to programs via transport services.  Parental will once again bypassing the rights of the kids.

[psy]

Agreed on all of that.  The rights of a minor are the same as an adult, but parental rights are the issue.  Lon Woodbury wrote about that, illogical as always.

Yeah.  But the problem is that the above mentioned fucktard forgets that there is no "right" to infringe on another person's rights.  Slavery is a good example.  A "right"  to "property" ownership does not trump the human rights of the... "property".  Very similar situation here where some imagined parental "rights" (to control another person) supposedly trump the inherent and inalienable rights of the kid.

Here's one thing I learned at the presentation:  Washington state will not allow involuntary residential incarceration of anyone 13 and above.  The result:  WA is the leading kid "exporter" - kids get dragged to programs via transport services.  Parental will once again bypassing the rights of the kids.

Yup.  And it'll continue until this is addressed on a federal scale. In order to do that, the reasons why such drastic measures are necessary need to be conveyed... and that is not an easy task (or impossible, either).

[AuntieEm2]

Attorney (Philip?) Elberg got traction in the legal system under medical malpractice law in NJ. I think of the many programs owned by Universal Health Services--clearly representing their services as "therapy."  How is this not malpractice, then?

Just yesterday, I was advised to find a foresic psychiastrist to review the case. Apparently under the law they can compare the teen's diagnosis to the treatment being administered and say whether it fits the standards of practice. Not sure why we are not getting further with this line of reasoning/action. In my case, I don't know how I would get access to my niece's records to pursue this, though.

Auntie Em

[Anonymous]

In my experience shrinks are no better than programs. Programs like to market using very new-agey type of language, talking about the "healing properties of nature" and other bullshit like that. Sure, go sleep out in your backyard in the dirt and eat a can of beans, see how healing that is parents. The staff a lot of times will have fake names like "flower" or "butterfly" to enhance this natural aura they wish to present themselves in. It's laughable really, but parents fall for it hook line and sinker. "I would go if I didn't have to work! " they might say even. Well, they don't really understand the reality and our imaginations tend to imagine the good possibilities rather than the evil ones. Back to my point though, many programs seem to prefer to operate in the non-medical realm. They are not like medical psychiatric wards which take a different approach to "changing" the thinking of a "troubled" teen.

In a wilderness program, they use harsh physical means to enact change. In other words, they keep you so uncomfortable and miserable, you will say just about anything to regain your standard of living that you were brought up your entire life to be accustomed to. I wouldn't take this approach with a dog, let alone a human being, these people really are insane that pursue these theories but that's for another thread.
Shrinks on the other hand have a different theory. They think a kid acting "bad" is the result of a "chemical imbalance" in the brain. So they give you all sorts of experimental medication. They have no idea what exactly it's doing to your brain. They will just give you a bunch of different meds until you act different. It's still a program but just a different means of achieving the "change" in the mindset of the kid.

The sad part is they can convince people that they are "broken" and in need of their fixing, but most of their medicines are very harmful, and very expensive. They make a lot of money and live a good life off convincing other people they are in need of changing their brain chemicals. Also, some shrinks do refer to programs, I know that for a fact.

[Anonymous]

sorry bout the shrink.
what an ignorant worhtless asshole - plz tell i said so, unless you've already gotten AWAy
a little education into what trauma does to a person would be in order, what the hell kinda school did he go to.

i've tried to tell a few (rather a couple) shrinks what happened.. first of all they never heard of such a thing. i send them to the websites including fornits, and both times they were so stunned at what they read and learned, that they started studdering and unable to speak clearly.

i'm happy that it shook them up of course... but aren't they s'pose to learn about handling such things with the proper understanding and empathy - what about the Stanford experiement. how could they not study classic examples like this.

and lawsuits, forget it, i don't why they are not willing to help. really i wish i knew some answers, cuz i would give em to you. good luck, take care, smoke a big bowl, etc.

it took me 11 years to remember the shit i was put through. you've been out a year and you remember it. thank-god, memory is the best start. what a buncha sick fucks.

lonely and fucked up michigan...

[wdtony]

check this out:

PTSD related. I wouldn't suggest taking any psychiatric medications. Could add to an already existing bad mental state.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =420218592

[iamartsy]

I have been with the same shrink for 12 years. At first he was skeptical of what I had been through. In recent years, I called him on him on that. He said he had been confused, at the time. The big abuses in Texas were in the early 90's (look up Spring Shadows Glen (http://www.houstonpress.com/1995-07-06/news/diagnosis/), and the abuse I suffered was in the mid 80's. I informed the shrink that the abuses started long before that, but were unknown. How can anyone know about them, when your phone calls are monitored as are every minute of your day. You can't tell family as we all know, and that is even if you see family. I rarely saw mine. They came up a total of 3 times in 9 months, I think. I saw my brother, but he was enjoying the extra money not needed for me (insurance paid back then) so he did not want to hear about it. He got to go to Europe, Puerto Vallarta, etc. Long story about him.

Anyway. my point is that shrinks are often not aware or are baffled. My therapist does not want to hear about it, but that is an even longer story. I really don't even see her anymore. It became pointless. I needed her help getting away from this place and instead she talks in what I call "therapist circles". I can do that all by myself since I am a therapist by law, but not practicing. I do know the method. We were all taught it in school. We were definitely not taught to abuse or ignore though. I can guarantee you that. You learn that on the job, I presume. My jobs did not entail abuse since I worked in community services and hospice. So please don't assume we are all the same. We aren't. I refuse to abuse under any circumstances.

[Anonymous]

acid and peyote is the answer?

Short answer: YES!

Long answer: YES! Along with mushrooms, ketamine, salvia divinorum, ibogaine, DMT, ayahuasca, MDA, MDMA, and many, many others.  Don't forget marijuana and other cannabis derivatives such as hashish and honey oil, they are particularly powerful agents against PTSD causes and symptoms.

[Anonymous]

acid and peyote is the answer?

Short answer: YES!

Long answer: YES! Along with mushrooms, ketamine, salvia divinorum, ibogaine, DMT, ayahuasca, MDA, MDMA, and many, many others.  Don't forget marijuana and other cannabis derivatives such as hashish and honey oil, they are particularly powerful agents against PTSD causes and symptoms.

Drugs entertain you, but they won't solve your problems. I would advise against medicating PTSD, especially self-medicating, because then you will probably just want to do whatever drug it is that you're using to forget more and more, until you realize that it doesn't really take care of the base issue.

I'm not against drugs; I do them, myself. All I'm saying is that when people start thinking of a recreational drug as medicine, they will usually become psychologically addicted to it.

[beccabbyx]

I am currently at Bromley Brook School in VT.
My name is Rebecca, I'm from Portsmouth NH, and i'm reaching out for guidance in any form.
Advice, a shoulder to lean on, someone to confide in, anything.
I'm at my last straw and i've already tried to die here but they found some way to drag me back to this hell hole.
Anything is appreciated.

-becca