Author Topic: THINKING= the Devil  (Read 2758 times)

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Offline Awake

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 09:14:36 PM »
For some reason I just remembered the oh so common cliché “you’re just playing a game…”.  It seemed that this phrase was used for just about any reason.  If someone joked around a lot, or acted weird, or even was cutting on themselves you could pretty much bet that in a rap they would be confronted by someone saying,” I think you’re just playing attention games.” Or maybe someone would complain a lot. They might hear something like,” I see you blaming your problems on other things and feeling sorry for yourself a lot. You’re just playing the victim.” As I recall it this phrase was used in just about every rap. 

What I don’t get though is how the hell it worked. It seemed to stop everyone in their tracks and disregard the persons issues. I don’t remember anyone saying, ”Hey guys, maybe this isn’t just a game. Maybe we should take it seriously.”  It seemed to be a popular tool used in raps.  For instance it was a good way to get the attention off yourself. “Do you really have issues with me? Or are you just playing games?”. Anyone else remember this? 

Ugh… It reminds me of how those raps progressed. Just an endless circle of Attacker, Defender.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 09:47:05 PM »
The interesting thing about the attack-defense cycle is I cannot recall a single time when a defense worked. At the end of the attack, you were beaten en masse into submission. Thus, people were badgered  into admitting events that have never occurred.  You try to resist, to no avail, and you find you will only be further psychologically tortured unless you buy and sell the lie. Then, you end up adopting the lie, being "treated" for the lie, confessing to your family the lie, and believing the lie. Maybe the lie isn't outright--for example, maybe you tried drugs but were never addicted. But some were out and out lies. And there is a BIG BIG chasm between toking irregularly and being "an addict."  You end up spending your time on an issue you really never had, and ignoring real underlying issues.

A good example of this is pre-CEDU, I experimented with some drugs irregularly. I didn't buy 'em, sell 'em, make exchanges, etc. Then, I worked in a restaurant full of tweakers. It turned me off so much I've never touched it since and this was a voluntary, easy decision I made half a year prior to CEDU. I just wasn't drawn to it. CEDU didn't exactly know what to do with me because I really wasn't a flashing light case of trouble, but when I casually mentioned to the family head that yes, indeed, I tried some drugs but they weren't for me, he immediately deemed this my lightning rod issue. Why? Because he had recently overcame his totally fullblown, shipwreck of a coke problem.  He also, later, AFTER his tenure at CEDU, came out of the closet. His whole fucking life was one lie after another and he couldn't see the truth when it shone in his face.  So he just projected his shit on me.

Guess what? This scenario of transference or projection was endemic at CEDU, because the VAST majority of staff members were fucked up and working their shit out on us.  The lack of boundaries was astoundingly antithetical to any hope of real therapeutic growth.  I don't know if I can think a single staff member who can be deemed truly emotionally healthy while I was at CEDU. CEDU was as much their cult as it was ours.  The only difference was they voluntarily adopted it.  We adapted to it as a Darwinian survival mechanism.  The problem was that the strategies we adapted to survive inside CEDU were emotionally implosive outside of CEDU.
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Offline Awake

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 10:05:52 PM »
Ooooh! forgot about that one, "You're just projecting." another pretty common way to flip the coin from defender to attacker. Well, its not a defense, but it did work sometimes. I agree though. No logical defense worked. Only submission.
I think that's in part why raps were so .... intense. The only way to defend yourself was to attack someone else to move the attention to them.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 10:53:16 PM »
another great defense was to attack someone else first.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2008, 05:11:06 PM »
:(
These "defenses" work because they shred the person's credibility without actually having to mount a reasoned argument. "Playing games" and "projecting" really mean "you're not being truthful," and the idea is to dis the person without having to say or prove what is untruthful in what the person is saying.

(It's like when someone says an elected official is "just being political," suggesting he or she is insincere--but "political" simply means having to do with government, and the accuser avoids having to come up with specific criticism of the elected official's policy or action.)

Also along these lines is the very term "troubled teen." A convenient way to strip the child of all credibility. Amazing to me how quickly the family begins (my family began) to adopt this language--what amounts to the debasement of a whole and complex human being.

George Orwell in Animal Farm has a famous line: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." I suspect the staff treated you all the way they did in part because they were encouraged to see you as less than credible, less than human, less than deserving of respect.

Auntie Em
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Offline Awake

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 05:55:41 PM »
Quote "These "defenses" work because they shred the person's credibility without actually having to mount a reasoned argument. "Playing games" and "projecting" really mean "you're not being truthful," and the idea is to dis the person without having to say or prove what is untruthful in what the person is saying." -quote

That's what I was trying to get at. if you just came out and said "you're not being truthful" you'd have to explain why. But it seemed like once someone said, "you're just playing a game" everyone just accepted it as the core answer to whatever it was that someone was being attacked for.

I guess it could be categorized as Thought Stopping Language, or a Thought Stopping Cliche'. I'm sure if I thought about it I'd remember a bunch of CEDU sayings that hindered thinking beyond them. In fact.....

The harder the truth to tell, the truer the friend that tells it.
To the degree you feel your sorrow is the degree you feel your joy.
You should be childlike, not childish.
The truth shall set you free.

umm.. there's definitely more ... just drawing a blank. But all these were tiresome cliche's used over and over and seemed quite effective at creating a mental block.
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Offline psy

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 06:06:55 PM »
I think it's not so much "you aren't truthful" as it is: "you aren't real", and as such you "don't even know you are lying".  IMO, the point is for the most part to get you to question yourself and your own interpretation of reality, causality, identity (self concept), and past events.

Anybody else get called "in your head", or was that just a Benchmark thing?
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Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 06:09:47 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Amazing to me how quickly the family begins (my family began) to adopt this language--what amounts to the debasement of a whole and complex human being.

And just through the use of words.  Amazing, isn't it, what loading the language can do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Awake

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 07:05:02 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
I think it's not so much "you aren't truthful" as it is: "you aren't real", and as such you "don't even know you are lying".  IMO, the point is for the most part to get you to question yourself and your own interpretation of reality, causality, identity (self concept), and past events.

Anybody else get called "in your head", or was that just a Benchmark thing?

Good point. It really did cause me to question myself and change my habits. I did alot of bitching about CEDU but eventually I got called out by enough people for "playing the victim" that I stopped complaining or talking about leaving or fighting the program for that matter.  I knew it would only get me more of the same.

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Amazing to me how quickly the family begins (my family began) to adopt this language--what amounts to the debasement of a whole and complex human being.

And just through the use of words.  Amazing, isn't it, what loading the language can do.

Yes. The power was in the language. It becomes more and more apparent. It'd be nice to go back with the language to demeen their language.  "You're just playing games" "Look who's talkin. That's just loaded language, a thought stopping cliche" Of course this would be when the infamous "You're in your head." or "In your thinking" would come in to play. The ultimate thought stopper. Yet again THINKING = THE DEVIL.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2008, 11:35:53 AM »
"You don't even know you're lying."

That's so evil-brilliant it takes my breath away.

How does one resist the pull to take techniques like this, learned at programs, and apply them to twisting relationships with others to your advantage? In relationships with "civilians," as Shanlea would say.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 01:07:47 PM »
Auntie Em, I successfully split before I irrevocably broke in blurring the lines between CEDU/Reality.  (Although I am guilty of drinking some kool aid.) When I split, it was a VERY conscious decision that occurred when I realized I could only level up if I started to "play" people. Snitch, badger, lambaste for my own advancement/survival. I already started to adapt some of the story that CEDU created for me... but I also rejected the more out and out fallacies. 

As far as bringing CEDU's twisted mind games into relationships, I hadn't yet mastered that skill, but I will say that most of us can attest to being inappropriately confrontational and rap like in our exchanges. But we really believed that cutting someone to the quick rather than being humanely direct was just being honest.   There was an intensity, lack of boundaries, and penchant for oversharing that wasn't healthy. But we didn't know that.

The vast majority of us imbibed some amount of ineffective relational skills, but there were others who took this to a whole new extreme.  If you are NATURALLY a person who tends to manipulate, stir the pot, and exploit feelings to your advantage, you end up leaving CEDU with some formidable new skills.  These kids adapted to CEDU's tactics very quickly and seemed to relish the power of intimidation over others. Most people would probably say they bullied others for survival and not for entertainment; it was after all, a program prerequisite.  I think only a minority truly enjoyed the power surge.  I don't know if it was a "kill or be killed" mentality OR that CEDU's methodology was too potent a mix for their inherent tendency toward dominance.

But there is no way that outside relationships were not affected by CEDU's relational paradigm. I don't think a single person on this board, anyway, would say differently.  Some of the best posts I have read in  the other fora pertain to the "special skills" people gleaned from their programs that had a destructive or terminal effect on their relationships.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2008, 07:14:13 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
Ooooh! forgot about that one, "You're just projecting." another pretty common way to flip the coin from defender to attacker. Well, its not a defense, but it did work sometimes. I agree though. No logical defense worked. Only submission.
I think that's in part why raps were so .... intense. The only way to defend yourself was to attack someone else to move the attention to them.



Good example of the program co-opting a perfectly valid psychological concept, and using it to their own devices and through their own filter. (Well, as valid as you want to consider Freud, who originally coined the term.)
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Offline Awake

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Re: THINKING= the Devil
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2008, 11:35:50 PM »
Thanks hurrikayne for posting this related article on an all too similar "program" in the public sector.

http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic= ... #msg312200
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