Author Topic: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy  (Read 43240 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2008, 09:01:26 AM »
Why all the negativity on Anecdotal data?  I agree that there are better forms of data collection and presentation, but in the absence of long term controlled studies, anecdotal evidence is acceptable, revealing and educational.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2008, 09:30:46 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Why all the negativity on Anecdotal data?  I agree that there are better forms of data collection and presentation, but in the absence of long term controlled studies, anecdotal evidence is acceptable, revealing and educational.



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Why so positive about anecdotal evidence?  It's the absence of long term controlled studies that makes the industry look like the shabby puppy mill it is.  How come there hasn't been a long term study in over twenty years?
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2008, 10:43:09 AM »
Quote from: "HUNAN"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Why all the negativity on Anecdotal data?  I agree that there are better forms of data collection and presentation, but in the absence of long term controlled studies, anecdotal evidence is acceptable, revealing and educational.



...

Why so positive about anecdotal evidence?  It's the absence of long term controlled studies that makes the industry look like the shabby puppy mill it is.  How come there hasn't been a long term study in over twenty years?

Well, I don’t take a real positive stand on anecdotal data, but in the absence of any other it can be very informative and better than nothing at all.  It can help steer the ship and give one a sense for what is working and what is not.  It can also pose a challenge to run statistical reports on some of the results.

Not sure why there hasn’t been any studies done… my guess is that it usually comes down to money.  Longer term studies are expensive and if the schools cannot see a way to recoup their investment (short term) then most would not be willing to shell out the cash.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2008, 11:37:46 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "HUNAN"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Why all the negativity on Anecdotal data?  I agree that there are better forms of data collection and presentation, but in the absence of long term controlled studies, anecdotal evidence is acceptable, revealing and educational.



...

Why so positive about anecdotal evidence?  It's the absence of long term controlled studies that makes the industry look like the shabby puppy mill it is.  How come there hasn't been a long term study in over twenty years?

Well, I don’t take a real positive stand on anecdotal data, but in the absence of any other it can be very informative and better than nothing at all.  It can help steer the ship and give one a sense for what is working and what is not.  It can also pose a challenge to run statistical reports on some of the results.

Not sure why there hasn’t been any studies done… my guess is that it usually comes down to money.  Longer term studies are expensive and if the schools cannot see a way to recoup their investment (short term) then most would not be willing to shell out the cash.



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Money????  There doesn't seem to be a shortage of money for programs owned by Aspen, or UHS.  I, and I alone, not "we", think you're rationalizing. 
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 11:45:15 AM »
Quote
Money?   There doesn't seem to be a shortage of money for programs owned by Aspen, or UHS.  I, and I alone, not "we", think you're rationalizing.

It is more, return on investment, vs just money.  If by funding a longer term study the schools felt it would help grow the industry or benefit the conditions or model for the kids then it would be in process.  But why fund something that may not benefit anyone (in their eyes).
You don’t have to guess whether or not I am rationalizing… this is a discussion and it is speculation on my part.  Neither one of us knows the answer.



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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 01:05:29 PM »
What sources were cited to support the absurd statement that 'confrontational therapy' is effective?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 01:21:42 PM »
The Attack Therapy is probably THE most damaging part of TBSs and RTCs.  It would be amusing watching them try to justify it if it wasn't so sad.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 01:35:50 PM »
Quote from: "dfsght"
The Attack Therapy is probably THE most damaging part of TBSs and RTCs.  It would be amusing watching them try to justify it if it wasn't so sad.



Opponents of "attack therapy" do not under-stand is that confrontation has proven effective to eradicate malignant, dangerous, vicious attitudes and acts. While some critics condemn confrontation to be "cruel," they need to remember that Dewey students have engaged in dangerous, often death-defying behavior which demands heroic intervention. Unless the therapist can persuade the youth to avoid a collision course with disaster, there can be profoundly serious consequences.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2008, 03:03:45 PM »
Quote from: "Harpen"


Opponents of "attack therapy" do not under-stand is that confrontation has proven effective to eradicate malignant, dangerous, vicious attitudes and acts. While some critics condemn confrontation to be "cruel," they need to remember that Dewey students have engaged in dangerous, often death-defying behavior which demands heroic intervention. Unless the therapist can persuade the youth to avoid a collision course with disaster, there can be profoundly serious consequences.


Cite your sources please....and that doesn't mean this article.  Please show me where clinical studies have been done to show that this is beneficial.

Most opponents of attack therapy are those that are unfortunate enough to have been exposed to it, IMO.



"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."   C.S. Lewis
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2008, 03:05:21 PM »
Quote from: "Harpen"
Quote from: "dfsght"
The Attack Therapy is probably THE most damaging part of TBSs and RTCs.  It would be amusing watching them try to justify it if it wasn't so sad.



Opponents of "attack therapy" do not under-stand is that confrontation has proven effective to eradicate malignant, dangerous, vicious attitudes and acts. While some critics condemn confrontation to be "cruel," they need to remember that Dewey students have engaged in dangerous, often death-defying behavior which demands heroic intervention. Unless the therapist can persuade the youth to avoid a collision course with disaster, there can be profoundly serious consequences.

He's quoting Bratter to back Bratter's claims, which doesn't cut it.

Quote from: "Bratter"
Dewey students have engaged in dangerous, often death-defying behavior which demands heroic intervention.

Jesus Christ, what were they doing, the flying trapeze without a net?  Bratter may think he's heroic, but he isn't.

http://www.isaccorp.org/documents/dewey ... 26.04.html


 Lon Woodbury won't even back the guy.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2008, 03:17:23 PM »
Quote from: "HUNAN"
He's quoting Bratter to back Bratter's claims, which doesn't cut it.




Yeah, Miller Newton is fond of that too.  Malignant narcissism run amok.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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Attack Therapy 101
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 03:20:28 PM »
Here's Bratter's "attack therapy" outcome study.  How ironic Bratter was sentenced in Litchfield.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8337096.html

Man sentenced in assault case


LITCHFIELD, Conn. -- The president of a private school in western Massachusetts was sentenced today to three years probation and ordered to make $50,000 charitable donation in the case involving a teen-age student who said he sexually assaulted her in 1993 at his Connecticut home. Thomas Bratter, the 55-year-old founder of the John Dewey Academy in Great Barrington, was sentenced in Litchfield Superior Court and also ordered to serve 500 hours of community service. Bratter, of Salisbury, Conn. had pleaded no contest to second-degree unlawful restraint. The John Dewey Academy is a school for at-risk adolescents.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: Attack Therapy 101
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2008, 03:38:13 PM »
Quote from: "HUNAN"
Here's Bratter's "attack therapy" outcome study.  How ironic Bratter was sentenced in Litchfield.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8337096.html

Man sentenced in assault case


LITCHFIELD, Conn. -- The president of a private school in western Massachusetts was sentenced today to three years probation and ordered to make $50,000 charitable donation in the case involving a teen-age student who said he sexually assaulted her in 1993 at his Connecticut home. Thomas Bratter, the 55-year-old founder of the John Dewey Academy in Great Barrington, was sentenced in Litchfield Superior Court and also ordered to serve 500 hours of community service. Bratter, of Salisbury, Conn. had pleaded no contest to second-degree unlawful restraint. The John Dewey Academy is a school for at-risk adolescents.


That was 15 years ago!!  Things change over time.

just look at the articles on Straight and Synanon from the 1960's compared to how they fell about the now.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: "Attack Therapy" at The John Dewey Academy
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2008, 03:41:52 PM »
Unlawful restraint. 

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Attack Therapy 101
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2008, 03:43:09 PM »
Quote from: "Migraine"
That was 15 years ago!!  Things change over time.

just look at the articles on Straight and Synanon from the 1960's compared to how they fell about the now.


What?  English please.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa