Author Topic: Just a few things  (Read 2553 times)

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Offline Paul St. John

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Just a few things
« on: July 23, 2003, 12:32:00 AM »
=By ALL definitions, it is a cult and operates with the exact paradigm.

= They do not and literally cannot work.

= They are literally not designed to work.

= They serve one god, and that God is death.

= How well, you do there is dependent merely upon how strong of a person you are... not how well you use the program.

= It is a business, but more then that it is a business for people who profit off of death and suicide.

= AND MOST OF IMPORTANTLY, all of the above statements are entirely true.


Elan, or in my case Elan s cousin, Daytop = WRONG, BAD

That's a fact.


LOL!! Just for the fun of it, let s say that I said this there... what would happen next?

They d start to dissect me, and show, how I am projecting, and this is my issue.


Here s a very important identification.

This is their philosophy.. ANYTHING THAT IS IN ANYWAY WRONG IS ALWAYS COMPLETELY WRONG.  THIS IS HOW THEY DESTROY THE HUMAN EGO.

For example, if they say ten things that are complete bullshit, and I prove it, but they find one simple mistake in my logic, then that means, that I am wrong, and the program has persevered again.

This is because they set up the illusion that you are on trial in the first place, which ain t that hard, as most people will at leats feel a little guilty, about being sent to such a place in the first place.

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Just a few things
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2003, 04:15:00 AM »
well said.. i had no idea daytop was made by a catholic preist,, but that makes alot of sense. guilt is a powerful tool,, exploited by religions thru out time.is interesting that the same people that have gotten away with buggering little boys took  the  concept  and use it to bugger minds.im also fairly sure that the elan , and daytop concepts were sound in theory,, it only gets twisted by the interpretations of sick individuals that makes it into a monster. thereby turning a cure into a disease. no one expects the spanish inquisition :silly:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jackie

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Just a few things
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2003, 01:27:00 PM »
a couple of years ago, i got an email from an ex staff member at elan who told me " elan is a vicious cult and needs to be stopped". at the request of that person, i will not say there name, but they are so right. as far as how well you do in elan, or at least in my time there, it was how well you kissed butt and conformed to everything they said and put in your head that determined your success there. if you didnt agree with what they said, then the haircuts, the gms and the signs began. it still boggles my brain how anyone can be staff at a place that clearly would under normal circumstances in the "real" world be found as abusive and clearly a danger to the kids there.   if you said they were wrong in what they were doing, ya, the guilt trips and all the hell that comes with going up against a bully would start all over again. i remember wanting to tell my dad about them putting me in the ring and all the things they said to me during haircuts and gms, and being told, your dad wont believe it anyway, or, we will immediatly end your conversation, or, we wont let you talk to them anymore, or, you shouldnt try to make your parents feel guilty for something that is all your fault, you put yourself here, not them. they are truly sick individuals.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ackie

Offline Paul St. John

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Just a few things
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2003, 05:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-07-23 10:27:00, jackie wrote:




or, you shouldnt try to make your parents feel guilty for something that is all your fault, you put yourself here, not them.


Holy Shit!!  LOL!!  I remember when they use to say that so that you didn t tell your parents shit. I forgot all about that..

What a bunch of manipulative fux.

That s like the type of shit that child molesters say and shit.

These guys are really too funny!  They make it SO fucking obviouse what they are doing..

ROF

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

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Just a few things
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2003, 05:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-07-23 01:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"well said.. "

Thanks!  :smile:

Quote
im also fairly sure that the elan , and daytop concepts were sound in theory


No big deal of course, but on this one small thing, I think that I must disagree with you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Just a few things
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2003, 01:11:00 AM »
Quote
On 2003-07-23 01:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i had no idea daytop was made by a catholic preist,, but that makes alot of sense


lol..Yo think about it man.  Before meetings, you have your morning prayer right?

When you do something wrong( according to them anyway), you have to write guilt to the counselor(preist)..of your own volition..

Kinda like confession right?


Where I was they use to have like these concepts on the walls, that were like all-powerful around there.  I can t remember what they called them.. but I called them " The Twelve Commandments"


I can still remember a few of them

"Compensation is valid."

"What goes around comes around."

"Remember your roots."

There was one about honorring your values, too.

I remember thinking.. " Well, every time I do that I get in trouble."
lol


What they really menat, is that over a period of time, they were going to convince of what my values should be, and that I should honor those.

It really is the design of the program that is equally at fault, as the counselors.  there is noone who could really make them work, beacuse the whole structure is false.  It collapses upon itself.

They give you some good ideas, and that is cool, if you could benefit form them, BUT at the same time, they expect you to use them inside of a bubble.


See, they try to recreate a person, and replace the person s current self with a program that they have deemed to be better, but in order for them to actually be successful at this goal, they would have to know everything there is to know about the human person and psychology, and existence, and metaphysics, and everyth9ing else, and they don t.. Noone does.. As a matter of a fact, the counselors where i was had literally no interest in those things.

Then again, even if they did know everything in existence, and were to successfully recreate this person, they would still be killing the person who once lived, and erasing the indivisual completely from existence.  That s a pretty high price to pay just for indulging in some drug usage.

The Marines metaphor that I ve been seeing used in justifying the program is pretty funny, because I can t speak for everyone in the world, bnut if my kid had a drug problem, the marines would be the last thing that I would consider.

People develop drug problem are often dealing with some type of distress.  How is giving them more gonna help.  It s trying to solve a probelm with a stronger form of the problem itself..

Like for example, before I went there, I openly admitted that I did drugs to escape reality.. Life was hard, and I wanted a break every now and then.

I think a lot of people do drugs to escape reality.

Now, how is sending such a person to a place where they speak opennly about the idea that they are seperate from the " real world" gonna help?

People came in there so supple.  YOu could see their spirits.. They were hurting, but they were there, some very badly at that.. Some looked like they had been through a thousand storms.. Some looked like they were encased in defenses.. But the spirits were there.. soft, supple, and alive

With time being there, you would watch this fall away ffrom a person..

These kids, still had a chnace everyone of them.. They went in hurt, too a place they expected to be help, some of them anyway, and they recieved nothing buit continuos assaults.  Still, I could watch them struggling to survive.. whatecer was left of them.. like dying spirits, clinging onto a solid tree in a storm.. a tree made of their hopes, and their conviction that they are good, and that life can be good, and any point, perhaps, a helping hand could have saved any or all of them, but instead they were attacked over and over .. repeatedly.. told that they were no good.. coverred with insinuations that they were now owned..

As much as seeing people succeed and accomplish had taught me the strength of the humna spirit so did being in that place..People came in there,most of them already torn, and you could watch their spirit still fight and attempt top hold on as they were slowly drained..

It was interesting watching who still had what left over a period of time.

It was a silent battle against the counselors.. the program..



During some of the attacks where people defended themselves, though there were a million words spoken and a million expressions upon faces.. It was like in the background, all the dialogue could be narrowed down to two statements..


Defender, " I am me!"

Attacker, " You are nothing!"

Paul St. John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline jackie

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Just a few things
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2003, 05:47:00 AM »
ya, imagine that, concept on the walls so you can never forget it........

 no man is an island
 what goes around comes around
 it all comes out in the wash
 honest
 trust
 blind faith

and i know there were others but i cant think of them right now..........

paul said:
What they really menat, is that over a period of time, they were going to convince of what my values should be, and that I should honor those.

That is so true, and like i said before, the minute you rose up against what "they thought we should be like" the bullying began. they would literally beat you into submission or degrade you into submission or humiliate you into submission..amazing eh?


paul said:
People develop drug problem are often dealing with some type of distress. How is giving them more gonna help. It s trying to solve a probelm with a stronger form of the problem itself..

Like for example, before I went there, I openly admitted that I did drugs to escape reality.. Life was hard, and I wanted a break every now and then.


I was told by joe ricci himself that i was too young to be a drug addict. i was thirteen. i totally agree that people do drugs to escape reality, at least i know thats why i did.



paul said:
 like dying spirits, clinging onto a solid tree in a storm.. a tree made of their hopes, and their conviction that they are good, and that life can be good, and any point, perhaps, a helping hand could have saved any or all of them, but instead they were attacked over and over .. repeatedly.. told that they were no good.. coverred with insinuations that they were now owned..



it seemed like there main goal was to conform and transform every child there into what they wanted them to be, if that took breaking their spirit and their will (sometimes to even live) then thats what they did, not even considering the consequences that would follow.i think that when they transferred all the trouble makers in 1980 to elan four, for the documentary to be made, that if the people doing that show would have seen the "real elan" then things would have had to have changed there. when the states investigated elan, if they had been allowed to see what was really happening and didnt have to make a prearranged appointment, things would have changed. i think there were helping hands now and then, but they were slapped away.

thanks so much paul for your honesty, theres not too many people who will take an honest look at what these "programs" are for what they really are.....child abuse centers run by child abusers disguised as counselors......... :wave:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ackie

Offline Anonymous

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Just a few things
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2003, 09:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-07-27 02:47:00, jackie wrote:

"ya, imagine that, concept on the walls so you can never forget it........



 no man is an island

 what goes around comes around

 it all comes out in the wash

 honest

 trust

 blind faith



and i know there were others but i cant think of them right now..........






Yeah.. We use to have to go over them, and talk about what each one meant.  This was mainly for the beginning members.  There was a thing called " inductions", for the people who had been there for about two weeks or less.  You use to have to go over al of the concepts and their meanings.. Once, you undertood those, and could say the morning chant by heart, they let you out.  It was meant to last for two weeks..




LMAO!!  I remained in inductions ofr my whole stay, in spite of knwoing every concept's meaning, better then most of the status members.






<
thanks so much paul for your honesty, theres not too many people who will take an honest look at what these "programs" are for what they really are.....child abuse centers run by child abusers disguised as counselors......... :wave:




You are welcome.. Thank you for sharing your experience.


Paul

"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Just a few things
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2003, 09:59:00 PM »
.. would be interesting to discuss the meanings now, or rather the purpose


no man is an island

" LET US IN!!" lol

what goes around comes around

" WE RE GONNA GET YOU! " lol

it all comes out in the wash

" WE RE GONNA GET YOU NO MATTER WHAT!" lol

honest

" OPEN UP TO US!"

trust

" LET DOWN YOUR GUARD! "

blind faith

LOL!! Do I even need to respond to this one? "


What we have here is just a few of the concepts, and as I see, together, they are more then enough to create the perfect egalitarian mixture.


Paul St. John
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Offline jackie

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Just a few things
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2003, 01:14:00 AM »
LOL ::jawdrop::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ackie