Author Topic: ADD/ ADHD/ Meds  (Read 23195 times)

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
I think what we're seeing here is some fallout from the radical cultural shifts behind the Industrial Revolution.

It all happened pretty fast, really. Over the course of just a couple of generations we went from a loose network of largely rural communities (roughly 80%) and turned that on it's head. We now have roughly 80% urban and suburban populations.

We don't do anything for ourselves anymore. I kid you not, when we lost power during Hurricane Andrew, I found out that not a single one of my dozen or so co-workers understood how a toilet works. They'd been filling up the bowl for an entire shift believing that, until the power came back on, they couldn't flush the damned thing. One girl actually wanted to page the tech guy and ask if we could use some of the generator power that was running the computers and PBX to do it.

And these were, by no means, unintelligent people. All were competent (ok, most of them) answering service operators.

I think we just got caught up in the idea a couple of generations ago that everything new is better; that experts would make all of our lives better and easier, longer, healthier and more pleasurable.

And now we're bumping up against a wall. I don't think there's really so much more over-medicating and over-diagnosing as there is more reporting of it and criticizm of it.

I can still remember when, less than 20 years ago, my very good pediatrician tried to convince me that bottle feeding was better for my baby's nutrition, better for her overall health and sooooo much easier than breastfeeding anyway. Seems astounding now, but he believed it then.

I think we're slowly coming around in the private sector, though the public sector is still bouncing off the walls. I don't think they get anywhere near enough accountability. Whatever they do, however badly they do it or however misguided their ideas, they never suffer the consequences. When their programs and plans fail, they demand (and get) more money and power.

Here's one subtopic that exemplifies what I'm saying. HeadStart.

Don't we all pretty much understand by now that little kids need personal attention from a small group of stable, caring, dedicated adults and older kids? A family or neighborhood setting, in other words. Don't we pretty much all (in the private sector, anyway) understand that the best thing in the world for a little kid is to have a parent or other caring adult at home, available all the time, aware of what's going on in the context of that particular kid's history, temprement and personality? So then, why are the child advocates screeching and screaming for more money and authority to extend schooling down to the age of 4? Don't they read the papers?

And why do we take their word for anything? Their claim to expertise is nothing but a littany of failure dating back to the beginnings of the New Deal. When will we, as a society, start to hold them accountable to at least basic common sense?

There's a little slight of mind going on here. It works like this. We all know we're good parents. When we agree to these programs and policies to better socialize, adjust and educate children, we're thinking of other people's children. You know, that massive army of horrible parents out there? What? Never seen them? They're on the news. But I've never seen many of them in the real world either.

I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2005, 03:48:00 PM »
And what about a program they have in Helena, Montana that's for kids as young as 4? They take kids with attachment disorder. Well, to me if a kid has some attachment disorder and can't bond with the parent, is the answer taking the kid hundreds or thousands of miles from the parent? Somehow, I'm not getting it. Maybe they know much more than I do about raising kids, but it seems if a kid and parent are having trouble bonding, what they need is local help where they can learn together. How are they going to learn to bond when they're miles apart? Maybe someone has the answer.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #92 on: October 26, 2005, 06:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-26 12:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

And what about a program they have in Helena, Montana that's for kids as young as 4?


I honestly think those people must be patently insane!

Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #93 on: October 26, 2005, 09:37:00 PM »
Ya, I totally agree. I tried to visit while I was in Helena but I wasn't allowed in, cuz it was after hours.

I saw kids taking in large bins but couldn't see to much else. There was a guy playing ball on the grass with two little boys. I asked him a few questions but he was really guarded. Then I asked about the age of kids there and he said 4-12. The oldest boy piped up and said "and some are 14, too." The guy quickly quieted the kids down and said they had to go in.

The whole experience left me feeling really strange, knowing that little children as young as 4 were in there, being cared for by strangers, with parents miles and miles away.

The taxi cab driver asked if I was a parent and I said no. He said he gets lots of parents coming out there to visit their kids, so he knew well where the place was.

Very sad. I can't even imagine a child that young in an institutionalized setting. I know it happens, but it bothers me deeply to think about it.

I was assured by some, well let's say people of power, that all was well there and that it was a wonderful place, a place that worked wonders for children.  

Somehow I just couldn't buy into it. Especially finding they are "regulated" by NATSAP of all things, the same outfit that regulates Mission Mountain School that we read about here on Fornits. John Mercer is on their board, the owner of Mission Mountain.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #94 on: October 26, 2005, 10:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-26 09:19:00, Antigen wrote:

"I think what we're seeing here is some fallout from the radical cultural shifts behind the Industrial Revolution.



It all happened pretty fast, really. Over the course of just a couple of generations we went from a loose network of largely rural communities (roughly 80%) and turned that on it's head. We now have roughly 80% urban and suburban populations.



We don't do anything for ourselves anymore. I kid you not, when we lost power during Hurricane Andrew, I found out that not a single one of my dozen or so co-workers understood how a toilet works. They'd been filling up the bowl for an entire shift believing that, until the power came back on, they couldn't flush the damned thing. One girl actually wanted to page the tech guy and ask if we could use some of the generator power that was running the computers and PBX to do it.



And these were, by no means, unintelligent people. All were competent (ok, most of them) answering service operators.



I think we just got caught up in the idea a couple of generations ago that everything new is better; that experts would make all of our lives better and easier, longer, healthier and more pleasurable.



And now we're bumping up against a wall. I don't think there's really so much more over-medicating and over-diagnosing as there is more reporting of it and criticizm of it.



I can still remember when, less than 20 years ago, my very good pediatrician tried to convince me that bottle feeding was better for my baby's nutrition, better for her overall health and sooooo much easier than breastfeeding anyway. Seems astounding now, but he believed it then.



I think we're slowly coming around in the private sector, though the public sector is still bouncing off the walls. I don't think they get anywhere near enough accountability. Whatever they do, however badly they do it or however misguided their ideas, they never suffer the consequences. When their programs and plans fail, they demand (and get) more money and power.



Here's one subtopic that exemplifies what I'm saying. HeadStart.



Don't we all pretty much understand by now that little kids need personal attention from a small group of stable, caring, dedicated adults and older kids? A family or neighborhood setting, in other words. Don't we pretty much all (in the private sector, anyway) understand that the best thing in the world for a little kid is to have a parent or other caring adult at home, available all the time, aware of what's going on in the context of that particular kid's history, temprement and personality? So then, why are the child advocates screeching and screaming for more money and authority to extend schooling down to the age of 4? Don't they read the papers?



And why do we take their word for anything? Their claim to expertise is nothing but a littany of failure dating back to the beginnings of the New Deal. When will we, as a society, start to hold them accountable to at least basic common sense?



There's a little slight of mind going on here. It works like this. We all know we're good parents. When we agree to these programs and policies to better socialize, adjust and educate children, we're thinking of other people's children. You know, that massive army of horrible parents out there? What? Never seen them? They're on the news. But I've never seen many of them in the real world either.



I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association


"


It's all about day care. They want to start kids at Headstart to save the money it would cost to send them to day care. Here in NJ day care is hard to find and can cost up to $1000.00 per month for a four-year-old.

The same is true for after-school programs, longer school days and years, and the people that are pushing for year-round school. It simply shares the day care burden to all taxpayers.

Simply put. We don't raise our own children, anymore. Institutions do. I am guilty of this. Tonight, my son had an after-school art class followed by after care before one of us (Mom or me) could pick him up at six. We are divorced and both work. We don't like it. That is the way life works.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2005, 10:54:00 PM »
At dinner this evening, with my ex-wife (a psychiatrist), she was venting about the kids on medication. She says some of these meds are amphetamines similar in chemical makeup to  methamphetamine and that they cause the same form of permanent brain damage. She said, "Just wait until these kids grow up and stop taking this shit."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #96 on: October 27, 2005, 10:48:00 AM »
Yeah, there seems to be a growing awareness of these problems among the shrninks. Sooner or later, they'll have to realize that the dissenters are really in the majority.

We long for homes we can never have as long as we have institutions like school, television, corporation, and government in loco parentis.

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/3a.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2005, 11:06:00 AM »
Quote

Sooner or later, they'll have to realize that the dissenters are really in the majority.



Yup, you are right, eventually the 25 million people
on psych meds will realize what the dissenters are forcing on them!

That even though are are doing better, they really are not!

Without the dissenters how would the people doing better ever realize they where doing worse?

Viva La Dissenters
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2005, 12:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-26 15:32:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-26 12:48:00, Anonymous wrote:


And what about a program they have in Helena, Montana that's for kids as young as 4?




I honestly think those people must be patently insane!

Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor


"


Yet another thing that's not as new as you think.

With all of the supposed behavior problems I had as a child, one psychiatrist recommended just that thing, a boarding-type program school for troubled kids, so I could get treatment. I was five at the time. Remember, this was the 70s.

Fortunately, my parents toured the facility, and the idea of sending me away at five devastated them so much, they couldn't bring themselves to do it, thank god.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2005, 10:40:00 PM »
Thank God your parents listened to their intuition.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #100 on: November 05, 2005, 10:17:00 PM »
What is the name of the program in Helena...and are you saying that the youths there as young as 4-5 are boarding students?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #101 on: November 05, 2005, 11:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-27 08:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote



Sooner or later, they'll have to realize that the dissenters are really in the majority.






Yup, you are right, eventually the 25 million people

on psych meds will realize what the dissenters are forcing on them!



That even though are are doing better, they really are not!



Without the dissenters how would the people doing better ever realize they where doing worse?



Viva La Dissenters"


Define 'better.' In this case, I would define 'better' as; behaving in a more narrowly defined set of expectations imposed by modern educational institutions.

Once again, keep in mind that the mechanism these drugs use is the same as methamphetamine and causes the same kind of brain damage. This brain damage never heals. Prolonged use only makes it worse. These people will have real, irreversible brain damage as adults and we will have to deal with the consequences of that.

I have talked to more than one psychiatrist that has said that ADHD is very often an excuse for bad parenting. ADHD symptoms are a subset of other mental illnesses (such as bipolar disorder). Thus, the only legitimate way to diagnose ADHD is to rule out all these other diagnosis first. Very often, this is not done and psychologists go straight to the ADHD diagnosis. Then they use referrals to a psychiatrist who can write the prescription and gets paid for it. Very often, drugs are used as the first resort, not the last.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #102 on: November 06, 2005, 02:10:00 PM »
What is the name of the program in Helena...and are you saying that the youths there as young as 4-5 are boarding students?

I'll look it up for you and let you know. Yes, the kids are boarders. It's supposed to be a wonderful place but I have a problem when parents feel a need to send a child as young as 4 away because they can't bond with them. Bets are most of those kids have been adopted, abused, etc. And then they're the ones who pay the price by being institutionalized. I don't care how good the place is, it's not home.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #103 on: November 06, 2005, 02:10:00 PM »
I guess I should follow up to my last statement. I do understand that for some children these places could be safer and better than home. How sad is that??
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #104 on: November 06, 2005, 02:14:00 PM »
This is a NATSAP approved program. Make you all feel better now?

Intermountain Children's Home and Services
Residential Treatment Center
Helena, MT
Ages 4-11 (though the kid who was there slipped up and said there were kids older than 11 - he was quickly hushed)

http://www.natsap.org/programs_list.asp
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