bury this rotting carcass, it's starting to stink.

[Anonymous]

Zen's first name is "Kevin".

Considering that's all he posted about you, CCM, that makes you two even.

Now shut the fuck up, CCM.  You get into more than disagreements, and you go anonymous to take shitty shots at people you develop unreasonable hatreds for.  I guess you go anon because your own faults are well known to all and easily pointed out.

I've never been in a program.  I'm not the parent of a kid from a program.  And I'll post as much as I want.

[CCM girl 1989]

I didn't post her info.  Why do you keep saying I did?

Was it sadistic for her to attack my entire family, Isa?
 

This is the biggest crock of shit I have ever read! This is wrong, wrong, wrong, you are outright lying. Are you serious about me googling Zen Agent? I would never in a million years have done anything of the such! Vic Leathers?!! Huh? WHUT? I don't know what the hell you are talking about? Me attacking your family? I didn't even know before yesterday that you were a man! Notice that in the last emails I never even use the words he/she. I didn't even know you had a wife, and a daughter till I saw you posting on the shout box that she has even asked you to drop this whole thing. I have to got to work very early this morning which sucks because it Saturday, but whatever! Point being, my husband just came into the office, and I literally for the first time had to explain to him what was going on here. This was something I have kept from him because I didn't want him involved. He doesn't understand what I went through, and sometimes it's too damn hard to explain to someone why after 20 years you are still dealing with things. Even though I've come a long ways. So, I just had to explain to him about the threat of our information being released. So, now I have him trippin because now he wants to take action which is the whole fucking thing I wanted to avoid. This really sucks. Dammit.

As far as The Who giving you all that information, or him coming to you for my personal information. I think people are smart enough to know that's not The Who's agenda getting program survivors names, and addresses. I know you hate the Who Zen. But, nobody is going to believe you. I don't care what emails you create, or whatever. You lack credibility.

So, you all have a great weekend. Mine now is totally screwed since I get to go to work then start dealing with all this crap when I get home. That's great.

For your own well being, CCM, I suggest you learn that anything you post anywhere is easily retrievable with the right context and the ability to use boolean strings with "Google". You need to learn how to not let things slip.

I'll gladly help you in any way I can if you just ask.

Thanks Niles, I will postpone my computer class, lol!!!! Look Niles, the problem I have is that you all figured out who I was by doing some investigating. Investigating with the information I gave to fornits. Not you, or Zen, or anyone else when I signed up. I didn't throw it out here on this board for everyone to see, as a survivor of the programs, I shared some personal information, which I never wanted traced back to me. Even after you got my name, you yourself then googled my name somehow getting you to classmates.com which is where those two pictures of me were posted. The ones that you ended up posting on here. That made me feel uncomfortable since I pretty much look the same, and I am sure my stories that I shared here rang bells even after all those years.

Then having my name posted. Then being threatened that all my personal information, along with my husbands name, my families names, and where we all live, that that information was going to be posted for all to see??? Someone actually went as far as to do a criminal background check on me? God, talk about a great bed time story. That would've put even the worst insomniac to sleep in a nano second.

So, yeah. I have a problem with that. Let the fuckers out there that are raking in millions do the dirty work. Not you guys here! But let me tell you, that is now too late. You have a problem with me? I recommend you be a real man, or woman, and come to me with it. Don't be an asshole, and take my information that wasn't personally given to you, or Zen, and blab it all over this board, and post my pictures for all to see That's wrong. I've forgiven you Niles, but we talked for what??? About two hours?!!!! And by the way, that wasn't off peak minutes baby, lol!!!! I let you say everything you wanted to say to me. Why you disagreed with me. Then, I was able to clarify things with you that you had misunderstood. That's the only reason that you are halfway okay with me here, is you know, I am not a horrible person. We had a real conversation.

As for Zen, I have zero respect for you. You've proven yourself to be a compulsive liar. Half the stuff you have been saying here are all lies, lies, and more lies. I have never lied EVER on this board. I have had somethings I had to retract because of getting outed. So as for you, there is no way I would even waste my time with you. I did put a $100 bounty on your head to get your name. For me to know. Not to broadcast it here, or on the internet. It makes me a little sick to my stomach that you have basically been acting like a sadistic freak towards me ever since Niles posted my picture. I have to tell you, I see red flashing signs saying DANGER!

On a side note nobody should ever be banned from this board. But I also think that only the responsible, and mature people should be able to have access to all our information. That has not been happening. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to be dealing with this crap.

[Anonymous]

Just can't keep the ole trap shut can you?

[CCM girl 1989]

Zen's first name is "Kevin".

Considering that's all he posted about you, CCM, that makes you two even.

Now shut the fuck up, CCM.  You get into more than disagreements, and you go anonymous to take shitty shots at people you develop unreasonable hatreds for.  I guess you go anon because your own faults are well known to all and easily pointed out.

I've never been in a program.  I'm not the parent of a kid from a program.  And I'll post as much as I want.

Then what the hell brings you to this board? I don't get it? I am not out there joining the Knitters of America board? Whatever floats your boat though. People who actually have control of this board are NOT backing up your claims, or Zens claims of me posting anon because it's a lie. I am not responding to anymore of these accusations of me posting anon. It's so ridiculous.

[ZenAgent]

Thank God for the ignore user feature!

[CCM girl 1989]

Just can't keep the ole trap shut can you?

Okay, all I can say is someone needs to post that picture of Jack Nicholsen from a Few Good Men saying.................."YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!"

[CCM girl 1989]

Thank God for the ignore user feature!

You told people on the shout board that your wife wanted you to let this all go? Do me a favor, and listen to your wife.

[Anonymous]

Zen's first name is "Kevin".

Considering that's all he posted about you, CCM, that makes you two even.

Now shut the fuck up, CCM.  You get into more than disagreements, and you go anonymous to take shitty shots at people you develop unreasonable hatreds for.  I guess you go anon because your own faults are well known to all and easily pointed out.

I've never been in a program.  I'm not the parent of a kid from a program.  And I'll post as much as I want.

Then what the hell brings you to this board? I don't get it? I am not out there joining the Knitters of America board? Whatever floats your boat though. People who actually have control of this board are NOT backing up your claims, or Zens claims of me posting anon because it's a lie. I am not responding to anymore of these accusations of me posting anon. It's so ridiculous.

Personal disgust at the industry.

Sen. George Miller wasn't in a program.

Philip Elberg wasn't in a program.

Niles wasn't in a program - and props to him for dealing with your B.S.  He's offended by something he knows to be truly wrong and wants to change it.

By trying to keep people from no experience from learning about the industry here, you're doing the WHO's work.  It's a difficult subject for those with no experience to understand, I KNOW.  If the outside world doesn't learn about these programs, then nothing can change. 

But I guess that's what you want. 

By the way, there's a big, big difference between what a knitting group discusses and what Fornits discusses.  Get a clue from somewhere.

[CCM girl 1989]

A poster accused Zenagent of sexual abuse, being an alcoholic, and failure, upsetting him. He demanded the poster’s IP. It wasn’t revealed, but it’s repulsive that an accused abuser, who demanded the ID of their complainant- as if they had the right to that info- is now a moderator. Moderating powers should not be given to people who do not recognize ethical boundaries concerning privacy. Only people who don’t use their powers to obtain IPs as a method of handling detractors triggering personal insecurities, should be moderators. Zen’s powers should be strictly limited, or removed.

Mike having an ip collection is creepy, as is che “abusing his powers to check on ips.” This issue should be addressed. Moderators should have no more right to check ips for personal aims than regular posters

There needs to be mechanical limitations on moderator powers and these should publicly posted.

Okay, talk about freaky! This is a post a guest wrote way, way back in this thread that I just finally fully read, and comprehended. I know that takes a while for me folks, lol!!!! But, I find it interesting that I am getting the same vibes from this ZEN guy. Can we make sure at least people like this don't have access to our information? Please pretty please! Can we be more responsible about that? I beg of you!!!!!!!!!

[CCM girl 1989]

Zen's first name is "Kevin".

Considering that's all he posted about you, CCM, that makes you two even.

Now shut the fuck up, CCM.  You get into more than disagreements, and you go anonymous to take shitty shots at people you develop unreasonable hatreds for.  I guess you go anon because your own faults are well known to all and easily pointed out.

I've never been in a program.  I'm not the parent of a kid from a program.  And I'll post as much as I want.

Then what the hell brings you to this board? I don't get it? I am not out there joining the Knitters of America board? Whatever floats your boat though. People who actually have control of this board are NOT backing up your claims, or Zens claims of me posting anon because it's a lie. I am not responding to anymore of these accusations of me posting anon. It's so ridiculous.

Personal disgust at the industry.

Sen. George Miller wasn't in a program.

Philip Elberg wasn't in a program.

Niles wasn't in a program - and props to him for dealing with your B.S.  He's offended by something he knows to be truly wrong and wants to change it.

By trying to keep people from no experience from learning about the industry here, you're doing the WHO's work.  It's a difficult subject for those with no experience to understand, I KNOW.  If the outside world doesn't learn about these programs, then nothing can change. 

But I guess that's what you want. 

By the way, there's a big, big difference between what a knitting group discusses and what Fornits discusses.  Get a clue from somewhere.

Sen. George Miller got involved because he holds a public office, and it's his JOB to address these issues, and concerns of the people. There were issues that were brought to his attention about the TTI, and the abuses that were going on there. What? You think he woke up one day, and went......"oh, I think I am going to spend some time, and investigate the Troubled Teen Industry???"


As far as Niles goes.......for a long time I had nooooooooooo clue why the hell he was here. He later told me that he had a very good friend who went through all this B.S.

As far as Philip Elberg goes? I have no clue who this guy is?


NEXT!

[Anonymous]

CCM, Phil Elberg is a lawyer who has won some big settlements against the industry  (google "lulu corter").  

[Anonymous]

I would like to add - shut up, Miranda.  You're a troll, everyone knows it.  If you're going to act like an asshole, people have a right to address your bullshit.  But you hide.

Psy, can the ignore feature be set to block the IP of the person being ignored, so I don't have to read her shit when she "slips under the radar"?

Does CCM really stand for "Crack Craving Miranda"? 

Yeah...she's a survivor, alright.  Against WWASP, but pro-program, just like Sue Scheff.  Makes anonymous, false allegations so she doesn't have to back them up, and allies herself closely with the who.  I got enough PM's with background on "CCM" to know she's as believable as thewho.

How did I "out" somebody?  If it's posted openly on the internet, it's fair game.  Dude.   By the way, I can't see anyone's IP.  There's a good reason for that, because I would abuse that privilege to "out" you.  Just being honest.

Once again, the ignore feature is useless as long as the ignored slip by as anons.  Block their IP's so they're truly ignored.  Thewho and CCM are so desperate to be noticed, they'll do anything to get attention.  That's truly pathetic, trollish activity.

I am so desperate to be noticed that in the last 6 months I have posted maybe a total of 10 times? I love the fact you have access to my PM's too, and are threatening to post them. The things is, I could give 2 shits less, so be my guest. I haven't used that feature in 4 months, and before that rarely. Just do me a favor, and don't alter all my PM's. Because we all now people were altering my posts. Doesn't give you a lot of credibility. BTW, you have some nerve comparing me to Sue Scheff. BTW, The Who, and I exchanged a few P.M.'s about all the crap I was receiving because I didn't agree with the majority here that all programs were bad. But that was over 4 months ago, and very briefly. It's not like we are buddy buddy! Come on re-read my PM's Zen. They are still sitting there, I don't bother to erase those things, because I have nothing to hide. But, keep in mind if you do decide to be a prick, and post them. It just reflects badly on fornits for allowing you to have access to such private information.

Also, it wasn't just 1 WWASP program I went through. I went through a total of 4 different programs. If you don't consider me a survivor having to endure being away from my family for 4 1/2 years going through everything I did, then what is your definition of being a "program survivor"? I'd be real curious to hear that one! Also, you obtained my name from fornits when I signed up. Either that or when I listed myself on classmates.com trying to find some of my long lost friends that met the same unfortunate fate that I did, to catch up on old times. I didn't sign up to have some fucking loser like yourself that likes to talk the talk, then can't walk the walk, then threaten to spread my name all over this board. How truly pathetic you are. Get a life buddy!

BTW, having my name listed, and having my picture put up on here (thanks to Niles, oh well someone posted yours too), at first it kinda pissed me off, I'll be honest, I wasn't real comfortable having that information just hanging out here. But, I figure if there hasn't been anyone murdered by an angry fornits poster yet, and I am talking about all Ed-Con's to Program Owners to random prickish staff that taunted some of us, and made our lives a living hell, then the chances of someone coming after me, are slim, to none.

If someone does decide to, then hey, when it's your time, it's your time! But, don't think for one second I am not aware of my surroundings. I also have a few family members that are in law enforcement, also some detectives that are undercover in the narcotics division, and it really is not a big deal to have my phones tapped, calls traced, or whatever it takes to find out who you are, and press charges. So, if you like stuff like that on your record, enjoy spending time in court, or love being behind bars, then go for it. I just pick up the phone and make one call, and that starts the ball in motion. So, please make sure this is really what you want to do. If you decide to show up at my house, first of all you would have to make it through security. If you did that, then my dogs would alert me, which then I would proceed to grab my husbands gun, and then I would have to blow your brains out all over my pretty house. Sorry, I am not nice like some people who might aim for a leg to disable you. I aim with the intent to kill.

I really like the majority of the people on here even though we have are disagreements. There are just a few of you that no matter what I say, or do, I will always be on their shit list! Oh well, that's the way it goes.

That's the saddest thing I've read of late. No one had the right to put you through that. Any bullshit justifications for doing so because of your opinions on programs are grunts from bullies with conveniently emergent senses of morality.

But, can I ask you something?
Did you post what Zen says you did?
Did Zen post info which made it possible to identify you to fornits posters?
What exactly did he post, as he has altered it from the original?
What did he say to you when he posted it—what was he trying to get you to do?
How did he track you down?
What is your side of the story?

Not everyone gets a kick out of hurting you, and rather think the people who do so are no better than raging kids in group who use you for emotional and, frankly, sexual kicks.

And the insanity of reporting you to the police for "stalking"! He'd be laughed away from the station, of course, but how grotesque to attempt to manipulate the the legal system to crucify an innocent?...Not to mention, his lunacy makes survivors look unreliable when associated with one is so delusional and involved with scheming, dishonest orchestrations.

"Let others speak ill of me, let others spite me;
Those who try to burn the sky with a torch end in tiring themselves out;
I listen to them and taste their evil-speaking as nectar;
All melts away and I find myself suddenly within the Unthinkable itself."

Yoka Daishi

"Song of Enlightenment"

"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing" - The Qur'an

What I cannot STAND is the double standard here. I cannot STAND the group-think involved in defending a PROGRAM PARENT’S decision to "out" a survivor for sadistic “satisfaction” and dominance. I am repulsed by the sexual and spiritual dehumanization of this young lady to where this survivor is "fair game" for abuse; like a “bad” program-kid.

I ask people to look beyond their personal relationships and into what is right and what is wrong. This eternal standard does not disappear when the person is a degraded, scapegoated survivor, and the assailant an acquaintance. No, giving what is supposedly his first name of his own free will does not make it even. Make it possible for the general public to completely identify him - which is what he did- and his complete name so ccm girl can get full entrée into his psyche for full domination/intimidation effect.

As for you Zen, you write graphic sexually degrading ballads of "crack craving miranda's" rape of her husband, of her whorish, worthless, stupidity, and of all kinds of slander direct from your ass, for shits and giggles; don't produce a quote to imply it’s bad it is to be mean to YOU, with self-pitying righteousness. It's obscene. I am dumbfounded by the hypocrisy and tone deafness to the ethical reality of the situation.

It's true; the biggest bullies have the thinnest skins. And more frighteningly, a sociopathic ability to rationalize evil, their “right” to commit it, while maintaining an unyielding, sensitive code governing how people have the “right” to treat them.

CCM girl, answer my numerated questions when you get a chance. Post the link to the thread where this crap transpired, Check your pms. Not everyone thinks it’s ok to rape you for lulz ,and is contemptuous when you cry, and protest afterwards.



This is why I always post anon. I always figured it would be the cult leaders that would do the dirty dealings, not a program parent supposedly on the right side.

[Anonymous]

You know I'm coming to wreck your life.

[Anonymous]

You know I'm coming to wreck your life.

Wake up, time to die!

[Anonymous]

A poster accused Zenagent of sexual abuse, being an alcoholic, and failure, upsetting him. He demanded the poster’s IP. It wasn’t revealed, but it’s repulsive that an accused abuser, who demanded the ID of their complainant- as if they had the right to that info- is now a moderator. Moderating powers should not be given to people who do not recognize ethical boundaries concerning privacy. Only people who don’t use their powers to obtain IPs as a method of handling detractors triggering personal insecurities, should be moderators. Zen’s powers should be strictly limited, or removed.

Mike having an ip collection is creepy, as is che “abusing his powers to check on ips.” This issue should be addressed. Moderators should have no more right to check ips for personal aims than regular posters

There needs to be mechanical limitations on moderator powers and these should publicly posted.

Okay, talk about freaky! This is a post a guest wrote way, way back in this thread that I just finally fully read, and comprehended. I know that takes a while for me folks, lol!!!! But, I find it interesting that I am getting the same vibes from this ZEN guy. Can we make sure at least people like this don't have access to our information? Please pretty please! Can we be more responsible about that? I beg of you!!!!!!!!!

You're accusing the guy of sexual abuse, alcoholism and failure based on "vibes"?  At least what he posted about you was accurate and came from your own lack of discretion on the internet.  It certainly didn't defame you.  If he were truly malicious, he would have posted your info in full.  Get over yourself.  You threatened him once that you were going to be "in his neck of the woods" and wanted to confront him, implying you knew where he lived.  Don't cry "foul" - you've done far, far worse, logged in and anonymously.

"Freaky"?  I'd say.  Now you think every anon poster is Zen.  How ironic.