bury this rotting carcass, it's starting to stink.

[Anonymous]

Where is the post that declares THE WHO is banned?
Which person made this decision?

[TheWho]

Program vets once again demonstrating why we get more or less absolutely nothing accomplished. It comes as no surprise to me that parents, outsiders, and a variety of vets themselves no longer bother posting here. This place has long since slid into a shit hole.

Nothin new, we never got anything done either just bitched about shit and tried to recall what happened to us.  Dont beat yourself up. years ago we would never post another vets name and family information on the web like that especially a moderator.  This guy Zen also said she had family that were cops WTF what is the purpose of that?  That really puts her in a situation was he ever ina program?,  I think I remember CCM89girl.  I dont remember her real name being maranda.  Is Zen running the forum now?  He sounds like he has control or anger issues

[Ursus]

I dunno, Wayward (Who?)... In the past I have usually defended on behalf of free speech and anti-censorship. I posted against the "anti-Who" notice on a forum door. I have complained about his not being able to post on the Ban-Box. I am guessing that maybe TheWho did not follow "the rules of the forum." I am guessing that perhaps his actions undercut some critical and inherent philosophy here that is part and parcel of its nature of being.

you think like we did in the old days only we didnt have the philosophy then.  I would defend anyone who would be pushed out the door, just the way it was the rest of them too.  I read from the beginning and dont see why thewho was banned does this happen all the time?  How do you decide which people can stay?  When you say "rules of the forum" which ones do you mean, hell we never had rules except that survivors stuck together and no one could defeat us.  We never let anyone leave without knowing what we stood for or went threw.
I dont see why the guy had to be put out even if he was a hooligan.
After reading threw this I wonder why this Zen guy needs to post here so much if he is a moderator in another forum.  Mods were always there to help out as I remember not to argue or confront people.

I put the phrase in quotes for a reason... but, spam is spam. Trying to filter fish a forum for gullible parents and less-than-critical thinkers in order to make money off of them is a form of spamming. Is TheWho a confidence man, selling parents the dream of a "good, safe program" for errant, rebellious little Jimmer Johnny? Does he set the stage by plying on the general rhetoric via his/her posting persona, and "suggest" more specifics in private PMs and emails?

You decide. Your guess as as good as mine. I honestly don't know. But I am guessing that Ginger has her reasons, and this was her call, from what I understand...

I personally would feel a lot better about it if we were furnished some proof.

[Froderik]

You might well ask: what about the anti-program survivors here, don't some of them also put in analogous amounts of time, sweat, etc., sometimes over the course of many years? Well, hell YES!! It was their butts (or their relatives' or loved ones' butts) that went through the wringer, their hearts and minds twisted by those bastards!! Think that doesn't serve to fuel some passion into the posting?

It is understandable for those of us who actually went through a personal hell by these means to be a little obsessed by this. It is far less understandable for someone more removed from the scene to put this kind of effort in. Does Sue Scheff post here on the order that TheWho does? Nah, she puts her two cents in from time to time, but mostly she's out making money. What is TheWho doing here?

Well said, and some good questions, Ursus.

[TheWho]

Life is happening for me later today. but I will say if you are banning people all the time then so be it fornits has changed.  But if this is the first person as someone has said then everyone needs to be sure it is the right thing and not hid behind one pwesons feelings or idelas.  Everyone needs to live with this decision if fornits is to stay united and grow stronger, there is no going back the second banning will be easier and I gaurentee you will feel down about it, seems in many ways the people in Britian are pulling ahead of the US in free speech, go figure, that one of the reasons we pulled away from them to begin with.

gatta scoot I'll catch up.

[ZenAgent]

Program vets once again demonstrating why we get more or less absolutely nothing accomplished. It comes as no surprise to me that parents, outsiders, and a variety of vets themselves no longer bother posting here. This place has long since slid into a shit hole.

Nothin new, we never got anything done either just bitched about shit and tried to recall what happened to us.  Dont beat yourself up. years ago we would never post another vets name and family information on the web like that especially a moderator.  This guy Zen also said she had family that were cops WTF what is the purpose of that?  That really puts her in a situation was he ever ina program?,  I think I remember CCM89girl.  I dont remember her real name being maranda.  Is Zen running the forum now?  He sounds like he has control or anger issues

You're doing to me what Fornits is accused of doing to the who.  You don't know me, yet you're saying he "sounds like he has control or anger issues", and making judgments.  I have no idea who you are, except you're suddenly a frequent poster here, too.  You also don't have the facts right:  Where did you get the idea I said there were cops in that person's family?  Where did you get that first name from?  It's not on the forum, not anywhere.  That's a little odd, don't you think?

I didn't post her name and family information.  You keep saying that, but where is it on the forum.  Again, where did you get that first name?  It's creepy.

Considering the controversy not posting this "survivor's" info has created, and the anger and misinformed opinions coming from the knee-jerk reactions of some very fresh posters, would it have been any worse to post her full info? 

Let me answer some of your questions:

My step daughter was in a program, we got her out a little over a year ago, and my anger is still fresh and close to the surface.  Everybody suffered.

I don't run this forum or any other.  I'm the moderator of the PV YLF forum, spared dealing with IP addresses because I'm not an admin.  If you have a problem with me being a moderator on a sub forum, you need to learn more about how limited "power-wise" that position is.  If you still have a problem, PM Ginger.  She's already addressed the matter once.

So, freedom of speech is an issue, but I can't post what I found on another website?  Why are you infringing on my right to free speech?  As far as CCM posting her full name on another forum - we're all accountable for our own actions.  I cut her some slack and didn't post her info.  She, however:

Accused me of being a sexual predator and abuser, insulted my wife and step daughter, who is a program survivor.  And CCM doesn't even know my name.  She offered a hundred dollars for it this morning.  Do you think she'll post it with my last name blanked?  Considering her history so far, I imagine she'll splash it all over the place.

She tried to guess my info a while back and posted I was "Vic Leathers", something she found Googling Zen Agent.  TheWho confirmed that, too.

She was right on the money.  I'm Vic Leathers, I deal in Western wear in Butte, Montana.  I got sheep here and a Big Sky.

That's it.  I don't know why CCM has hounded me anonymously for so long - she's a friend of the who's, I guess, and wanted to help him out.

She certainly doesn't seem to have any regard for my family, she would have trashed all three of us for...what?

Anger and control issues... I controlled myself, does it sound like CCM did?  You won't find CCM's name on this forum, unless the one you "don't remember it being" is hers.  I won't confirm it.  Where did you get that name from again?

Take care.

Vic Leathers   

[Anonymous]

Well, it appears the reason I have not been able to log-in (The last day or so) was that I was in the process of being Banned.  Got this message this morning.  So I am using someone elses computer.

.....you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Commercial Spamming, intentional disruption of the forum


so I guess "Free speech ala fornits"  will be rewritten in favor of anti-program posts and propaganda....there is a new sheriff (and Deputies) in town, careful what you post everyone.

THEWHO...

Wow...you don't get it, boy...You're a billboard for an entire industry, and even by your standards, that includes the abusive ones.  You won't name the "good" ones...you won't name the "bad".  You're doing referral binnis off this forum, and that's no good, no good at all.  This is a referral free zone, boy.  The "sherif"f is putting an end to your advertising, and I hear no voices in the wilderness crying out in despair.  You're a liar and a pig, and all you contribute is disruption and advertising for your company's interests.  Free speech is one thing...Your speech is paid.  Now beat it, boy.

Yup.  Commercial activity.  He's using the forum to manually spam and generate business... and spamming isn't allowed.  That's not even to mention his intentional disruption of the forum.  If people attempt ignore him, he logs out and posts as a guest so he can irritate others.

Free speech is one thing.  Plugging your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALALALALA at the top of your lungs to disrupt conversations, spread propoganda, and advertise for Aspen is entierly another.  Good bye Whooter.  Dont' expect a single tear to be shed here.

nuthin new. same shit he was doin when he got banned before? 'cept he did exponentially more damage this time. guess you weren't payin attention, or hadn't experienced it directly.

maybe he just liked to chat? maybe he was just bored at work? maybe he was a survivor who liked to play devils advocate? maybe he was telling the truth, and really had a daughter in a program and she is doing well and grateful. The point is who cares, it's not like he was posting links to his referral website. Psy went into ST and played devils advocate, followed the rules and got banned.. then publicized this as proof of ST's censorship policy. Why is the situation with thewho any different? he followed the rules of this forum, voiced his contrary and got banned for it. maybe it was just some survivors experiment to test the boundaries of free speech. bottom line - fornits failed miserably. they even included their  new orwellian term to delude themselves.. 'manual spam'.

clearly he hasn't been effectively banned.
and if it ain't the who... are you worried bout gettin banned for doin some advertising and spamming yourself? if not, stfu.

[Froderik]

I am guessing that perhaps his actions undercut some critical and inherent philosophy here that is part and parcel of its nature of being.

I think what you're saying here is that he was being a pain in the ass.

[Ursus]

Where is the post that declares THE WHO is banned?
Which person made this decision?

TheWho airs his/her discontent on reply #207 of this here thread:
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 33#p309833

Reply #209: psy introduction
Reply #210: The Word
Reply #211: psy elaboration
Reply #212: The Word parting shots
Reply #213: Anne Bonney's mewing cat pic

It all went down at the end of p14 - begin of p15.

[Froderik]

Program vets once again demonstrating why we get more or less absolutely nothing accomplished. It comes as no surprise to me that parents, outsiders, and a variety of vets themselves no longer bother posting here. This place has long since slid into a shit hole.

Whatever... shit, he's even more of a pain now that he's banned..maybe we should un-ban him so he'll shut the hell up and go back to his usual "spamming" or whatever. I honestly don't give a flyin' fuck either way... just make it stop...please... make it STOP!!

[Ursus]

I am guessing that perhaps his actions undercut some critical and inherent philosophy here that is part and parcel of its nature of being.

I think what you're saying here is that he was being a pain in the ass.

LOL. If that was a sin you'd all have hung MY pelt out to be tanned a long time ago.

Nah... Somewhere in all of that I was trying to say that the freedom of free speech is not the same thing as the freedom to spam. In fact, spamming undercuts... undermines... denigrates... blah blah blah... free speech (part and parcel of fornits).

Prolly serves me right for trying to get too philosophical. Let's all go back and look at Anne Bonney's cat pic, that just about says it all much better than I can, haha!

[Anonymous]

I've always held The Who’s a professional poster or someone really, really pitiful—I don’t mean “pitiful” as insult. I mean he deserves pity if he’s so lost that he’s possessed with “teen-program” promotion in this “teen-program-abuse” forum, or such a cult-annex that he to promotes it without rest, abstractly, with his “not all programs are bad” refrain.

If u read carefully you’ll see psy revealed why Who got banned (didn’t see it either): Who deliberately disrupted the forum by logging in “oh whet” when people “ignored” him, and manually spamming (commercial posts.) But basically, whatever technical reason he got ditched, the arithmetic was his omnipresent, eternal disruption. It’s blessed he’s past-tense. Though his presence is still here; he’s clearly posting as guests, Dracula rematerializing as hundreds of rats.

The thing I’m less comfortable with is Zen using his moderating privileges to get info on a survivor and post it here. Or using his knowledge of her to intimidate and control her. I don’t know the full story surrounding that, or what to believe, but even at best it’s seven layers of fucked up with a creamy coco filling of cuckoo-sadist. He shouldn’t moderate a vegetable sandwich, let alone a place he’s access to identifying info. Anyways, that's my last word on it.

Frod, did you say that mods can’t see ips? I’ve gotten conflicting info on that.

[ZenAgent]

I didn't post her info.  Why do you keep saying I did?

Was it sadistic for her to attack my entire family, Isa?

[Anonymous]

In a lot of ways, this banning of who is no different than Bush's mandate to invade Iraq under the pretext of defending democracy.

[ZenAgent]

I've always held The Who’s a professional poster or someone really, really pitiful—I don’t mean “pitiful” as insult. I mean he deserves pity if he’s so lost that he’s possessed with “teen-program” promotion in this “teen-program-abuse” forum, or such a cult-annex that he to promotes it without rest, abstractly, with his “not all programs are bad” refrain.

If u read carefully you’ll see psy revealed why Who got banned (didn’t see it either): Who deliberately disrupted the forum by logging in “oh whet” when people “ignored” him, and manually spamming (commercial posts.) But basically, whatever technical reason he got ditched, the arithmetic was his omnipresent, eternal disruption. It’s blessed he’s past-tense. Though his presence is still here; he’s clearly posting as guests, Dracula rematerializing as hundreds of rats.

The thing I’m less comfortable with is Zen using his moderating privileges to get info on a survivor and post it here. Or using his knowledge of her to intimidate and control her. I don’t know the full story surrounding that, or what to believe, but even at best it’s seven layers of fucked up with a creamy coco filling of cuckoo-sadist. He shouldn’t moderate a vegetable sandwich, let alone a place he’s access to identifying info. Anyways, that's my last word on it.

Frod, did you say that mods can’t see ips? I’ve gotten conflicting info on that.

Didn't you read what I posted, or do you not want to know?

Why are you trashing me when you admit you don't even know "the full story"?  That's...who-ish.  Enough.  You're trollin'.  Have fun picking at the carcass thread, buzzard.