Author Topic: StrugglingTeens changes their tune  (Read 6750 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2008, 10:48:44 PM »
sorry who- you are the person touting the industry.  YOu need to provide the list whioch will necessarily exclude any facility that does not require a letter from a local therapist approving of the treatment at the facility.  I think your list will be short.
 moving along who-remember we want to be specific and not speak in generalities

what evidence or study or statistic can you refer me to that supports the notion that what you call wilderness therapy is helpful for any of the diagnosis contained within the dsm 4?  If your answer is going to be something other then a study or statistic or evidence then don't botehr because I will just answer the question again?

If you can give me the name of the facilities that limit admissions to adolescemts whose threapists have prescribed what the facility offer and any  evidence, study or statistics that support the efficacy of wilderness programs for dsm diagnoses we can go on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #91 on: February 17, 2008, 11:35:06 PM »
Quote from: "make it simple"
sorry who- you are the person touting the industry.  YOu need to provide the list whioch will necessarily exclude any facility that does not require a letter from a local therapist approving of the treatment at the facility.  I think your list will be short.
 moving along who-remember we want to be specific and not speak in generalities

what evidence or study or statistic can you refer me to that supports the notion that what you call wilderness therapy is helpful for any of the diagnosis contained within the dsm 4?  If your answer is going to be something other then a study or statistic or evidence then don't botehr because I will just answer the question again?

If you can give me the name of the facilities that limit admissions to adolescemts whose threapists have prescribed what the facility offer and any  evidence, study or statistics that support the efficacy of wilderness programs for dsm diagnoses we can go on.

Unless someone can provide me with the procedures I dont think we will be able to do that.  Too bad you are bailing out so soon.  I think the first 5 points were good ones.
I think I will continue on without you, though.  This has proven to be a good start to defining an ideal TBS...



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dr Fucktard

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #92 on: February 17, 2008, 11:39:56 PM »
You want the ideal TBS?

Well look no further!!

http://fornits.com/SIBS

SIBS: The wave of the future in drug treatment.™
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2008, 11:40:42 PM »
Moving on --

#6-The ability for the children to earn high school diplomas and take the PSAT and SAT's.

These are not in any specific order, but I think once the child is stabilized they should get back on track with their studies and the school should be able to offer a well rounded education.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2008, 11:57:45 PM »
who
why are you quitting?

 I am  not going anywhere.  I amjust going to keep asking the same question.

Name faciliities that meets the first five and we can go on.

Provide a reference to any evidence statistic or study that suggests that wilderness programs help with any illness in the dsm.

It should be easy

Otherwise you are defending something that appears to be a figment of your imagination.  In teh absence of specifics you are making statements that are the equivalent of telling us that it is better to be rich and healthy then it is to be poor ans sick.

This is simple who-
You go-don't quit now.
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Offline Dr Fucktard

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #95 on: February 18, 2008, 12:14:20 AM »
I've asked TheWho to stop making an ass out of himself on this forum, but to no avail. He insists on spouting his generalities and making us all look bad with his incessant jibber-jabber.

Who, isn't it past your bedtime?
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Offline ZenAgent

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #96 on: February 18, 2008, 02:00:24 AM »
Quote from: "Oz girl"
Ive come to this discussion kind of late and as usual it has been derailed. But in response to Zen's original post, ST had always in theory been opposed to boot camps. (in spite of letting them advertise)
 When Michelle Sutton died he did an editorial stating that what she went to was not "wilderness therapy" but a boot camp and that this was why some other kids of the era like Kirsten Chase also suffered similar fates. i dont know how he defined it as such as it did not according to Mrs Sutton have any paramilitary aspect. The trouble is that since those days so may kids have died in the industry so it has become harder for him to try and explain the difference. Here is the article Zen if you are interested
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews02.html


Thanks, Oz girl.  Definitions in the TTI are nebulous, and if Lon limits his definition of "boot camps" to programs with a paramilitary style, he's got blinders on.  Sorry to always cite PV, but experience dictates...Peninsula Village advertised on StrugglingTeens under the categories "Wilderness Therapy" and "Boarding School", with the two in my mind being far-removed from one another.  PV does business as Peninsula Village School, Peninsula Village Treatment Center, Peninsula Village Behavioral Health(the name applied to the complex of mental health facilities PV is part of) and Peninsula Village, a division of Parkwest Medical Center(used when they want to appear "clinical" or they need to establish the source of their JCAHO certification).

The Special Treatment Unit at PV isn't a boot camp, it's worse.  It's a level five lockdown facility, where the patients are told to sit and think about the manipulations that brought them there.  All the kids go through STU, regardless of what brought them there - STU is "one size fits all" treatment.  So, what "manipulations" brought victims of sexual abuse, traumatic experience, depression, or eating disorders to the near-constant restraints they witness (or experience)?  What's the purpose in placing a traumatized kid in seclusion?  It's to "warehouse" them.  Here's PV's admission criteria, and the program has been very flexible in the past with the "exclusionary criteria":

 Admission Criteria
Patients come to Peninsula Village with a wide range of problems, diagnoses and symptoms including, but not limited to the following:

    * Depression, Anxiety, and other Mood Disorders
    * Alcohol and/or drug abuse/dependency
    * Disordered conduct and oppositional behavior
    * ADD/ADHD
    * Effects of traumatic experience
    * Disrespect of adult authority
    * Inability to tolerate frustration or boredom
    * Unhealthy self-centeredness
    * Unwillingness to adhere to conventional values/standards
    * Inability to behave independently and autonomously
    * Self-mutilation and/or other self-harming behaviors
    * Pattern of excessive passivity and clinging dependency in relationships
    * Eating disorders that are medically stable

Exclusionary Criteria
Peninsula Village is unable to help every adolescent. Some problems that we cannot treat are:

    * Intelligence below the average range (Full Scale IQ below 90)
    * History of fire setting and pyromania
    * Sexual Offenders / Sexual Disorders
    * History of chronic/severe physical aggression including use of weapons
    * Physical or medical condition that would hinder participation in vigorous, outdoor activities (diabetes, epilepsy)
    * Homicidal intent at time of admission
    * Psychotic Disorders
    * Pregnancy (females)
    * Impairment resulting from traumatic brain injury / Neuro-psychiatric issues
    * Eating disorders that are not medically stable


We've seen PV take sexual offenders and kids convicted of conspiring to commit mass murder. The identities of these teenage "exceptions" are public knowledge, because they were convicted as adults.  PV admitted a young man who walked into a Knoxville-area high school with a bomb, and his placement there stopped any criminal charges from being filed, PV was his "sentence".  There's been one common link between these exceptions to PV's admissions policy:  all of these kids were from wealthy families who paid out-of-pocket for their troubled teens to go to PV, shielding them from the fate kids with lesser resources committing the same crimes would face - prison, or the juvenile justice system, with neither being an "easy fit" for rich White kids.  PV provides an expensive but viable alternative, with a much quicker return to the community for the offenders.  Once the heat dies down and the media has moved on, a family therapist declares the kid "fit" and sends them home, sometimes in less than six months.  Six months beats fifteen years in "grown-up" jail...

So what is Peninsula Village?  A "last ditch effort" for the treatment resistant?  No, I know first-hand PV will take kids who profit from outpatient treatment.  Is PV a teen prison?  Their exclusion list should rule that definition out, but... Is it a school?  Only if you're putting the program on the spot concerning their clinical methods, and since the GAO became involved PV is leaning heavily toward the "school" title and away from "treatment center", at least in their press releases.

Peninsula Village is whatever it needs to be to get a parent to sign the admission papers.  Once PV admissions staff hear the troubles a parent is having, they paint a picture of PV as the solution to those troubles. It's a Summer Camp, it's a caring place for the traumatized, a lockdown rehab for the addicts, a penal camp for violent offenders, "warm and fuzzy" treatment for kids with eating disorders, sensitive therapy for cutters.

In reality, violent offenders and the victims of violence, the sexually abused and sexual abusers, depressed, passive kids and nascent psychopaths, are all thrown into the same milieu. To make matters worse, PV uses "peer on peer" as part of their treatment.  How can a depressed rape victim be considered a "peer" of a sexual offender or a kid with homicidal impulses?  What are the chances the traumatized patients will be victimized by their more aggressive "peers", and see the tormentors rewarded for cruelty by the staff for helping the withdrawn kids "get real", get "honest"

Right now, I have no doubt a kid is in PV who's terrified, has no business being there, and has no way to get help - absolutely none.  Their parents have been warned by PV not to believe their kids if they claim they're being abused or their peers are "psycho".  If a kid says the wrong thing during phone therapy, the family therapist ends the call immediately and the kid receives "care methods" for manipulation.

PV's not a boot camp, wilderness treatment, hospital or school, it's hell.  Trying to pin a definition on programs is impossible. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline wdtony

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #97 on: February 18, 2008, 02:48:57 AM »
As scattered as the so-called answers may be, I would like to thank "the who" for answering my questions.

I have also noticed some similarities between "the who's" writing and the writing of "make it simple". I am not implying they are the same person but if it is the same person, I would advise being more careful when writing proper grammar and spacing. I suppose it could be possible for one to adopt habits from the other.


To Oz-girl:  Derailing a thead?  There isn't a rail to derail.

To the best of my knowledge, I conclude there are no "good programs". I will keep an open mind but without proof, I cannot, in good conscience, accept what I have read here on fornits, or anywhere else, to be anything symbolizing evidence of such a program.

I will continue to be a part of the campaign to shut down all behavior modification programs.

I would like to thank everyone for the interesting conversation.

Tony
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Pathway Family Center Truth = http://www.pfctruth.com

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2008, 04:06:48 AM »
I just keep noticing their agreement that they need a therapist's note for a kid to be in a program. Nice way of side stepping the constitutional rights of children in my book by relying on therapists and such. Considering how many of these "therapists" have turned out to be shills for the industry its not surprise that this little clause has been bandied about.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2008, 07:35:33 AM »
MIS, we sort of side stepped the original direction of this thread lets continue someplace else and let the others continue... click on new thread below:

New Thread



...
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Offline ZenAgent

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2008, 02:11:19 AM »
Like everyone else in the industry, Lon Woodbury only points an accusatory finger at a firetrap after the place is engulfed in flames:



New Perspectives - August, 2001 Issue #84

HIGH IMPACT BOOT CAMP
Baja California, Mexico
Dwayne Lee, Admissions Coordinator –
Parent Resources Hotline
Hurricane, Utah
800-793-5156

[I called their web site number to ask some questions about the Parent Resources Hotline, identifying myself as an educational consultant. The person answering the phone informed me he was only authorized to send a packet of information and did not answer any of my questions. The packet I received included a photocopy of a letter from Dwayne Lee of Parent Resources Hotline, a Sample Daily Schedule for WWASP Programs, a brochure for High Impact, a Video Tape and a brochure for the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs: Casa by the Sea, Carolina Springs Academy, Cross Creek Academy, Spring Creek Lodge and Tranquility Bay. Apparently Parent Resources Hotline exclusively markets High Impact and WWASP programs.-Lon]

High Impact describes itself as a 28 day+ boot camp for defiant teens “that is well defined and well structured. This experience is designed to help teens replace destructive attitudes and behaviors with new perspectives and direction in their lives. This is accomplished by focusing on the three R’s of Reality, Respect, and Responsibility.” One of their stated goals “is to help participants gain an appreciation for home and family by learning to take total and complete responsibility for themselves.” They use a ranch setting “along with the rigors of an authentic military type schedule….” The typical schedule presented starts with “Wakeup” at 6:00 AM, and “Shutdown” at 8:00 PM, including four hours of “Marching” and six hours of “Worksheets.” The remaining time is devoted to Hygiene, Inspection and meals. “Staff members maintain 24-hour ‘round the clock’ supervision and interaction with participants. They teach values, acceptable behavioral norms and proper respect for authority….Our ‘gender separated’ compound” is designed to create an environment with “minimal distraction.”

The program describes its short-term program as a “wake-up” call for the teen, that parents can use to buy some time while deciding whether to enroll their child in their long-term program. The audiotape sent with the promotional packet consisted of a number of testimonials by parents and ex-students, mostly, however, apparently referring to the long-term WWASP programs rather than High Impact. A price list was included for the various WWASP programs, but none for High Impact.



Lon, you've claimed to be against boot camps for twenty years, yet that opinion doesn't seem clear as I scan the ST archives. The rather nebulous report on High Impact might have looked like an endorsement to a desperate parent.  A trip down to Mexico could have enabled you to give an informed opinion, and it would have been worth it.  High Impact shocked the Mexican government with their over-the-top child abuse, causing the Federales to document the torture and shut High Impact down.  Mexico apparently values human rights and child safety more than the desensitized U.S.

So often, though, EdCons pay a visit to a program and get paid via the "golden handshake" to see no evil.  No implication toward ST-only a broad, who-like generality.

No one bats a thousand, Lon, and you're looking like the strike-out king.  You must have been thrown a curve ball by DeSisto School, considering how you praised their program and wrote about Michael DeSisto like he was the Second Coming.

Not good EdConning on that call, Lon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Oz girl

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Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2008, 03:36:04 AM »
there is a quite quite list of glowing reports from st for schools and programs that closed down for being shithouse. Cascade got 2 thumbs up reports. Also 2 positive reviews of Tranquility Bay one of which dismisses negative rumors as lies. Crater lake school was also a struggling teens review classic. Not a word about Bobbi Cristensen running a previous school that drowned 3 kids before closing

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit04.html
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /np01.html
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen