Author Topic: StrugglingTeens changes their tune  (Read 8166 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2008, 07:16:06 PM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"

Right..... And we survivors were just born yesterday.

Again more propaganda and sales pitches.

I don’t think anyone is trying to take away what you have experienced personally, Botched, but we do realize that it is sometimes difficult for some to believe that improvements are ongoing. 
I am always a little skeptical myself, so you are not alone.  It is up to all us to hold their feet to the fire to insure changes are implemented and sustained.  The proof is in the pudding, as they say, so we will just have to wait and see.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline wdtony

  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.pfctruth.com
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2008, 05:03:24 AM »
The proof is in the pudding, as they say, so we will just have to wait and see.




[/quote]

When I was in KHK being tortured and brainwashed, noone from the outside could see what was happening to me and the other kids in the group. Everyone on the outside was told lies about what went on inside the building. I remember the executive staff claiming to be a better, different program now. I also remember them stating that they had adjusted or eliminated some of their methods to improve the quality of treatment for us. That was in 1986 and it was a complete fabrication. The people that run behavior modification programs presently are stating the same apologetic phrases as others have stated in the past.

This "wait and see" approach is futile. If we cannot see the day to day operations or have access to conduct surprise interviews with kids and staff, we will not be able to know the truth. I will never trust any behavior modification program to regulate themselves. I have been through one of these programs and have seen what evils can be allowed to foster within groups run by mentally ill program staff. This loosely regulated industry is a magnet for these sick, perverted individuals. The "troubled teen" industry is one that needs to be abolished. Being a "troubled teen" is a normal occurence and it is only worsened by irresponsible parents and/or a society that has lost focus on being healthy. Naturally, kids will experiment and go through troubled times and most will grow to become healthy adolescents and adults regardless of their many stumbles. A small percentage of kids will die regardless of what treatment options are available. This is life.

Behavior modification programs serve no productive purpose, they can only harm our society. I am hoping I can be a part of shutting them down completely. I do not need proof when there is no pudding, especially tainted pudding.

This deputy has exhibited behavior consistent with a serious mental illness. An illness I seem to be reading more about as time goes by associated with staff at behavior modification programs. I recognize this widespread behavior across the United States as the same I experienced 20 years ago. This is not an issue about treating "troubled teens" or "drug addiction", this is an issue about child abuse in behavior modification programs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Pathway Family Center Truth = http://www.pfctruth.com

Offline wdtony

  • Posts: 852
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.pfctruth.com
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 05:05:07 AM »
Quote from: "Covergaard"
Sometime the changes are forced. Look at Aspens Excel Academy.

They have always issued orange jumpsuits to newcomers and they have always taken them down to the local jail for a little scare.

Suddenly they state that they no longer want to treat conduct problems, but addicts alone. Why?

Answer: There is a new sheriff in town.

A boy had been through the mandatory jailtrip where the inmates were allowed to put a little Vaseline on his backside after he had been ordered to strip. Suddenly the new sheriff arrested one of the staffmembers and ordered this practice to stop.

They had no choice to alter their program, because the new sheriff had removed the key-elements in it.

Here is the press release: The new Excel academy from the Fornits wiki page. and here is something about the incident: Deputy Charged Over Alleged Discipline

Some critics may say that it was a political stunt on the behalf of the sheriff, but I think he hit the target very well.



Thanks for the info Covergaard!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Pathway Family Center Truth = http://www.pfctruth.com

Offline ZenAgent

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1720
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 09:47:58 AM »
Yeah, it's a blood pudding, isn't it? 

Lon Woodbury promoted boot camps and military-style programs until the GAO started investigating these "schools" - now Lon backs away from them and wants to offer alternatives?  All that tells me is the guy never did his homework about the places he allowed to advertise on ST, or he knew all along the places were vile but paying customers.

And why is it every time StrugglingTeens is mentioned on TT, the Spew appears like a nasty rash?  We had been spewless until ST appeared.  Odd, huh? 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2008, 10:17:19 AM »
Quote from: wdtony link=topic=25306.msg308610#msg308610 date=1203069804

[quote

When I was in KHK being tortured and brainwashed, noone from the outside could see what was happening to me and the other kids in the group. Everyone on the outside was told lies about what went on inside the building. I remember the executive staff claiming to be a better, different program now. I also remember them stating that they had adjusted or eliminated some of their methods to improve the quality of treatment for us. That was in 1986 and it was a complete fabrication. The people that run behavior modification programs presently are stating the same apologetic phrases as others have stated in the past.

This "wait and see" approach is futile. If we cannot see the day to day operations or have access to conduct surprise interviews with kids and staff, we will not be able to know the truth. I will never trust any behavior modification program to regulate themselves. I have been through one of these programs and have seen what evils can be allowed to foster within groups run by mentally ill program staff. This loosely regulated industry is a magnet for these sick, perverted individuals. The "troubled teen" industry is one that needs to be abolished. Being a "troubled teen" is a normal occurence and it is only worsened by irresponsible parents and/or a society that has lost focus on being healthy. Naturally, kids will experiment and go through troubled times and most will grow to become healthy adolescents and adults regardless of their many stumbles. A small percentage of kids will die regardless of what treatment options are available. This is life.

Behavior modification programs serve no productive purpose, they can only harm our society. I am hoping I can be a part of shutting them down completely. I do not need proof when there is no pudding, especially tainted pudding.

This deputy has exhibited behavior consistent with a serious mental illness. An illness I seem to be reading more about as time goes by associated with staff at behavior modification programs. I recognize this widespread behavior across the United States as the same I experienced 20 years ago. This is not an issue about treating "troubled teens" or "drug addiction", this is an issue about child abuse in behavior modification programs.






I think one thing that many struggle with is thinking that all programs are the same, all staff members are the same.  You don’t need to know the industry very long to know this is simply not true.  There is not a prevalent mental illness that runs thru all of them, Although, I can see that this could be the perception of some who have had bad experiences with a school like yourself.

I can agree with you that we always should be striving for more and more transparency within the industry.  Regulation I am on the fence with.  I really don’t think regulation is going to solve anything (look at our public school system).  The licensing and regulation may help to weed out and close down the abusive programs but may actually drag down some of the better ones if not implemented correctly.

As far as accepting the fact that some kids will die anyway (with or with out help) I just cannot accept that and cant agree with you.  I don’t think any parent should just give up on their kids and allow them to head down a destructive path.  The parents need to step in and take control and do whatever it takes to keep their children safe.

Behavior modification is an intrical part of our society, we all start using it on our children (and each other) from the very beginning to help them build healthy self esteem, starting from simple phrases like "Good job"!!

The towns deputy who placed this child in the prison was wrong in allowing the inmates to take over on their own with the child, but I am not sure we can state that the deputy is mentally ill or going thru some type of break down.  Most sheriffs would step in and get the deputy the help he needed if they felt mental illness was a factor, but based on the fact that the deputy was fired is a strong indication that he just over stepped his bounds and used poor judgement in placing the child at-risk.   Short of turning the child over to the inmates the practice of exposing kids to prison life is a common procedure in many communities throughout the US.

I think the one thing you cannot see that I have witnessed over the years is the evolution of the TBS industry.  The schools are not the same ones that many here experienced in the 1970 or 80s or 90 or even a few years ago.  The better schools listen to their alumni and parents and make changes to improve the models that they are working to.  I was part of this process and saw the changes implemented that myself and other parents suggested. 



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ZenAgent

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1720
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2008, 11:46:21 AM »
"This user is currently ignored" ;D

Spew, I have no idea why you feel compelled to keep beleaguering this, or if your comments are a response to what I wrote.  Like everything you write, it's sound and fury, signifying nothing.  That's why I have you blocked.

No one cares what you say.  You're the industry's full-time troll assigned to Fornits.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 11:56:09 AM by ZenAgent »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2008, 11:58:21 AM »
This is nothing new.  That's what Straight did every time they were caught or suspected of various abuses.  These people are adept businessmen and they watch the trends.  Every single program seems to hold itself up as being the 'kinder, gentler' version, or the 'new and improved' or they're using a 'completely different approach'.  Yeah, right.  All they're really doing is tailoring their marketing approaches to swing with the times.  When the climate calls for the 'get tough' policies, you see the boot camps rise.  When the pendulum swings back the other way, you start to see the 'alternative' "schools", or the "faith based" indoctrination camps.

Same shit, different wrapper.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline ZenAgent

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1720
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.freepowerboards.com/strugglingppl/index.php
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2008, 12:04:38 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
This is nothing new.  That's what Straight did every time they were caught or suspected of various abuses.  These people are adept businessmen and they watch the trends.  Every single program seems to hold itself up as being the 'kinder, gentler' version, or the 'new and improved' or they're using a 'completely different approach'.  Yeah, right.  All they're really doing is tailoring their marketing approaches to swing with the times.  When the climate calls for the 'get tough' policies, you see the boot camps rise.  When the pendulum swings back the other way, you start to see the 'alternative' "schools", or the "faith based" indoctrination camps.

Same shit, different wrapper.

Which is exactly what PV is trying to pull at the moment - heat's on, they sack every member of the clinical team with a doctorate.  They've done this in the past, and kids who were in the program at various times over a decade describe the same abusive program.  The only person who's been the mainstay is Bob Pegler, a guy with no degree (not a real one, despite claiming to have a degree in psychiatry on the website for a year) who must be the keeper of the abusive tradition.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2008, 12:06:35 PM »
Quote from: "ZenAgent"
"This user is currently ignored" ;D

Spew, I have no idea why you feel compelled to keep beleaguering this, or if your comments are a response to what I wrote.  Like everything you write, it's sound and fury, signifying nothing.  That's why I have you blocked.

No one cares what you say.  You're the industry's full-time troll assigned to Fornits.

Zen,  my posts were not in response to your posts.  We are trying to have a conversation.  The reason we suggested the ignore feature was to reduce the amount of trolling and flame wars that were occurring.  This has been working very well, if you have noticed, over the past month.  If you would like to join in the conversation then feel free but don’t pretend to ignore people and then respond to their posts with the purpose of derailing the thread.
 
Try to follow along and contribute on Topic "please" or keep the ignore feature “on” that’s what it is there for.


...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2008, 12:12:24 PM »
Quote from: "ZenAgent"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
This is nothing new.  That's what Straight did every time they were caught or suspected of various abuses.  These people are adept businessmen and they watch the trends.  Every single program seems to hold itself up as being the 'kinder, gentler' version, or the 'new and improved' or they're using a 'completely different approach'.  Yeah, right.  All they're really doing is tailoring their marketing approaches to swing with the times.  When the climate calls for the 'get tough' policies, you see the boot camps rise.  When the pendulum swings back the other way, you start to see the 'alternative' "schools", or the "faith based" indoctrination camps.

Same shit, different wrapper.

Which is exactly what PV is trying to pull at the moment - heat's on, they sack every member of the clinical team with a doctorate.  They've done this in the past, and kids who were in the program at various times over a decade describe the same abusive program.  The only person who's been the mainstay is Bob Pegler, a guy with no degree (not a real one, despite claiming to have a degree in psychiatry on the website for a year) who must be the keeper of the abusive tradition.


Yep.  That's what really blows me away about all of it.  This is precisely what they've done for the past 40 - 50 years and they continue to do so.  The stories don't really change, just a few of the incidentals.  The same systematic abusive techniques are still being used, they're just tweaked a little to make the parents feel better about what they've done.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2008, 12:15:53 PM »
And I think this is at the root of most of it.......

http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 20#p308620

Two ways of subduing defiance are to criminalize it and to pathologize it, and U.S. history is replete with examples of both. In the same era that John Adams' Sedition Act criminalized criticism of U.S. governmental policy, Dr. Benjamin Rush, the father of American psychiatry (his image adorns the APA seal), pathologized anti-authoritarianism. Rush diagnosed those rebelling against a centralized federal authority as having an "excess of the passion for liberty" that "constituted a form of insanity." He labeled this illness "anarchia."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline TheWho

  • Posts: 7256
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2008, 12:28:57 PM »
Good info!! 
Cleaning house is a standard technique throughout every successful business.  Sometimes people get so set in their ways or saddled with bad habits that the only way for the business to take a new direction is to “clean house”.  I think we need to be more leery of those places which never seem to promote or grow their own people.  Good people typically don’t want to stay in the same job for very long.  Most people want to grow and be promoted and many times this means seeking jobs outside their present employer… and on the other hand companies don’t want to keep people who become stuck in their position for too long so they need to give them a little push.
So it is good to hear that the industry has been doing this for so long, the change and growth from this seems to have paid off.  The programs that refuse to grow have closed and will continue to do so and the better ones will continue to get better.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2008, 12:35:38 PM »
The difficulty with the who's generalities about the industry is that it ignores the awful pain and suffereng experienced by all of the adolescents that were horribly harmed over the years as the industry became more sophisticated and the families that were promised they would be helped and were actually ripped asunder by an industry that said it was about kids and families but was actually about money and junk science using kids as guinea pigs and the kids and families being hurt today in theindustry's most recent incarnation.  If you and your industry are serious about doing what is right let's talk about some general rules based on the law and what we know and you seem to acknowledge about adolescent development and the lack of support for facilities that abuse kids and call the abuse- therapy.
Can we agree on these fundamental principles.

    
1)   All facilities, however they describe themselves, will provide the minimum education required in the state in which each adolescent resided before arriving at the facility.  The right and obligation of adolescents to an education will be acknowledged and not treated as a privilege which must be earned.

2)   Facilities, whatever they call themselves, will not seek to have health insurance pay any portions of tuition in the absence of a report for a psychiatrist who is unaffiliated with the facility, that the child has an illness that is recognized in the DSM 4 and that the facility treats in a manner consistent with the standard of care for that illness.

3)   efore using the word therapy to describe any of what they do the child who is to receive the therapy will be diagnosed with a condition or an illness and the facility will represent that the therapy is appropriate for the condition or illness.

4)   No facility, however they describe themselves, will accept adolescents who are picked up by transport services in the middle of the night recognizing that the use of such services is destructive to the relationship between children and their parents and is an act of cowardice and immaturity on the part of the parents.

5)   Recognizing that the relationship of children with their parents is important, no  facility will accept a child whose parents are divorced  where the placement will impact on the non custodial parents visitation rights without first being provided with a court order permitting the placement.

6)   All facilities will include in their promotional material specific details on the educational levels and certifications of all employees providing professional services. The distinction between services being provided by licensed professional and services being provided by others will be made clear.

7)   All facilities will make available information about the number of adolescents  admitted to the program in the past five years and the number that successfully “graduated” from the program..

8)   All facilities will make it clear that it does not approve or tolerate physical abuse of adolescents, the use of exercise as punishment, the withholding of food or sleep as therapy or punishment, and the humiliation of adolescents as therapy.  

9)   All facilities will permit adolescents regular and unmonitored contact with their parents after an initial blackout period not to exceed two weeks.

10)   No adolescent will be admitted to a facility based on a diagnosis contained within the DSM 4 unless they have first been treated for the condition that the facility diagnosed on an out patient basis in the community in which they live and if the diagnosis includes a disorder premised on an inability to get along with their parents the family has had a course of family therapy with a licensed therapist.

       I suspect this would not work for the industry because if they followed them an industry, based on junk science, would seek to exist.
















     I suspect that many of these principles would not be acceptable because if they were the industry could not exist.
    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5006
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2008, 12:45:04 PM »
I get what you're saying, and you're right....the industry couldn't function under those circumstances.  But, if you've got a legit diagnosis then shouldn't a kid be receiving actual medical help, in an actual medical facility rather than quack 'therapies'?  Programmies definitions of 'success' and a normal person's are vastly different, in my experience.  Ask them for any proof that any of their techniques work and all they can come up with is "well, it worked for Suzy".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: StrugglingTeens changes their tune
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2008, 12:55:39 PM »
I prepared the list only to respond to who's generalities.  These are simple principles based on the law and being honest.
Either you think education is a right or you don't.  Either you think that preventing communication in an unmonitored way with parents is ok or its not.  Either you think facilities should be transparent or you don't.  I am just asking that we get beyond the generalities.  That seems fair to me.  We can argue about what constitutes success.  That will be different for different folks but we should be clear about what transparency means and what is acceptable and what is not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »