BROTHER'S KEEPER Bullshit

[Anonymous]

Luke 6:41-44

41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.' ''

1Jesus went to the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought to him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the middle, 4 They say to him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what say you? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the oldest, even to the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said to her, Woman, where are those your accusers? has no man condemned you? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.

This is from John 8 which also contains:

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham's seed; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.

Go in peace my child

[Ursus]

Of potential interest to Father Tim:

I joined a ministry!!!!!!
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27217[/list]

 :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

Look at Brother’s Keeper played on a reality show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Uos2fzIJ0

[Ursus]

Look at Brother’s Keeper played on a reality show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Uos2fzIJ0

Lol. That poor chump. She did kinda spell it out though, that she had no intention of splitting the take. Is this self-interest vs. "the common good?"

[Anonymous]

The game is all about self-interested behavior and in its original formulation is called the Prisoner’s Dilemma. Two prisoners face these outcomes: they betray each other (each gets ten years), they stay silent (each gets five years), one betrays and the other stays silent (the betrayer walks and the silent partner gets ten years).

Joe teaches the Prisoner’s Dilemma in school meetings with the aim of convincing the kids that it’s always best to betray one’s peer (be a “brother’s keeper”). On the face of it, he’s right:

Betrayal = freedom or ten years (all or nothing).
Stay silent = five years or ten years (half or nothing).  

Obviously, playing all or nothing is better than playing half or nothing, when your chances of getting nothing are 50% in each case.  

The trouble with Joe’s analogy is that as the number of brother’s keeper increases, so do the odds of a double betrayal. If everyone is a brother’s keeper, everyone gets the maximum punishment of ten years. You are better off betraying only if there are few brother’s keepers around or if you are pretty sure your peer will not betray you. It’s a lesson in crass opportunism.

[Anonymous]

The funny thing is that crass opportunism at Hyde is called courage, curiosity, concern, leadership, and some fifth thing.

[Ursus]

Ah... I had forgotten about Prisoner's Dilemma. I've never been too good at those kinds of games, when they are cloaked with vestiges too analogous to real life. I prefer my games a bit more abstract.

There are a number of these "ethical dilemmas" that became popular, it would appear, in tandem with the Human Potential movement. Another is the "Lifeboat Dilemma," which, in fact, made it into the cult protocol at CEDU, with similar versions at WWASP and Daytop. Probably others as well. Did Hyde ever do it? I can't remember...

I believe these were once supposed to be philosophical exercises, perhaps a part of some motivational coaching endeavor or leadership training, or a means to foster greater cohesion amongst co-workers. I don't think they were originally meant to be foisted upon a vulnerable adolescent population, many of whom have some serious self-esteem issues, not to mention drug problems, psych histories, abusive home environments (which Hyde would not always deal with, at least back then), etc. etc.

The net result, IMO, is innately destructive. Maybe even lethal in certain kids' cases. Certainly, "emotional growth" is not assured and quite possibly, but incidental to some greater harm.

[Anonymous]

A recent Hyde grad, Billy Pro, said somewhere in this Hyde forum that Joe compared “Brother’s Keeper” to the Prisoner’s Dilemma. It’s reasonable to assume that Joe was arguing that if you inform on your peer, you’ll not only be doing him a favor (the Brother’s Keeper aspect), you’ll also be doing yourself a favor (the Prisoner’s Dilemma aspect). Well, that’s false, logically speaking; but you’ll definitely be doing Hyde a favor. Joe’s singular aim is to get the kids to carry out his normative prescriptions. A school in which the kids are part of the enforcement mechanism together with the staff is the most effective kind of behavior modification model.

[Anonymous]

A school in which the kids are part of the enforcement mechanism together with the staff is the most effective kind of behavior modification model.

Oh, I would call it a lot more than just your run of the mill "behavior modification." I would call it "thought reform." That place sought to supplant your entire value system and concept of good and evil with their own. And, I should add, their system has very little to do with good or evil, or whatever they call "character." It has everything to do with buying the company policy, body and soul, and to cease thinking for yourself, or anyone else for that matter. "Stop your stinkin' thinkin', boy!"

[Ursus]

LOL. Here's that Billy Procida post, plus the one immediately following. It was in the Happy Birthday Joe thread, from April 2007:

true story i got a good laugh over that pic...i gotta admit. he's a funny guy to watch during a meeting. there's def. a generation gap (or 2!), like when we had a meeting and he did the prisoner's dilemma and was saying, "now would you finger yourself? or would you finger the other guy?" the whole student body broke out laughing, not even the most ontrack senior could hold it in...haha that was 2 years ago...wow
- billy pro '07
38 days

Joe's using game theory to teach brother's keeper? It could be the ignoble start of a glorious career.

[Anonymous]

Attitude Adjustment Mobile, from the Youth Behavior Modification Experts:

[Inculcated]

Attitude Adjustment Mobile, from the Youth Behavior Modification Experts:

These people are saying that the additude adjustments of their local youths will start in the back of a tinted widowed creep mobile?

[Joseph W. Gauld]

Well, I'll be a characterless monkey's gol-darn uncle, har har har!! Them fancy wheels sure put my CONCERN and INTEGRITY banners to shame!!!