Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CAN ~ Collective Action Network
Flier think tank for AA/NA/TC and etcs..
xEnderx:
While I support opposition to troubled teen gulags and such, I fail to see how the demonization of the 12 step modality is going to accomplish much of anything. Perhaps I am just not reading the thread closely enough? The purpose of these fliers is what exactly?
1. What message do you want to relay?
2. What positive ideology can you include to help facilitate communication?
Blasting an idea, or a modality, or a program simply by pointing out the negatives does nothing to truely address the situation. Offer an alternative.
In the case of 12 step opposition, I would personally suggest looking into "Smart Recovery" or "Life-Ring".
.02
Edit: Remember that 12 step communities are like any community. There are good ones and bad ones. Many 12 step groups are nothing but meat markets for folks with a damaged past, however MANY 12 step communities help both their members and the communities that they reside in.
Are you talking about adults or adolescents?
Many of the "cult" aspects of NA and AA involve psychological devices that replace habitual and ritualized perperation, lifestyle, and consumption of drugs with a lifestyle that is "addicted" to the concepts of sobriety and the concept of maintaining sobriety through reaching out to others.
Not that I support AA and NA, I personally find their bluntly christian overtones to be a turn off...but to deny that the modality has increased basic quality of life for many members is simply untrue.
try another castle:
Im not sure.. but I think that whole flier endeavor was shitcanned. Best to ask psy.
As far as Im concerned, adults who choose to join something is none of my business. Cult, AA, KKK, NAMBLA, NAACP. Whatever. Their choice. Biggest prob I have with 12 step is that courts force people to go.
Doesnt mean Im going to do anything about it. Just sayin.
xEnderx:
I'll let you in on a dirty secret.
Courts mandate AA/NA attendance because its a free treatment modality that has a track record of having a moderate success rate at increasing the quality of life for folks. On the flip side of the coin, statistically speaking, the pressure from court mandated recovery or pressure related to losing your job shows higher sustained sobriety rates than "walk ins".
Of course statistical studies of 12 Step "lifetime" sobriety also prove quite nicely how unobtainable the abstinence based models REALLY are, but hey....if it keeps the syringe out of your arm for 1 more day to say the Serinity Prayer, why knock it?
psy:
--- Quote from: "xEnderx" ---I'll let you in on a dirty secret.
Courts mandate AA/NA attendance because its a free treatment modality that has a track record of having a moderate success rate at increasing the quality of life for folks.
--- End quote ---
While that might be the public perception, that's just not true. See Brandsma et. al. That's hardly the only study finding that. The truth is AA is not only worse than no treatment at all, it's much much worse, actually causing harm.
What's really interesting on some other studies that have been done is that the people who do worst attribute their success to AA most emphatically. Just because somebody believes something is working does not mean it's actually objectively so.
And btw, AA is not christian at all. Many of their teachings are in stark opposition to those in the bible, such as the teaching that a human being has free will and actions are choices. A couple links on that:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-heresy.html
http://www.2ndccn.com/Twelve_Steps_to_Hell.html (warning, gospel tract)
The bible explicitly says that drunkenness (or anything in excess for that matter) is a sin, and not a disease a person cannot control. If most churches knew what AA actually taught, they probably wouldn't allow them to have meetings there. AA is more a religion in itself than a method of recovery.
xEnderx:
The important question Psy, is as follows....."How are you measuring the word success"
Now if you are talking about lifetime sobriety, you won't find a damn program on planet earth that has any meaningful success rate. However if you define it by giving people an increase (however slight) in their day to day quality of life, and the ability to participate in a community that supports the concept of sobriety SOME 12 step communities can be very efficacious.
This does not mean I personally support the modality. It does mean that I understand the applicability of a faith based self help program in regards to certain populations. If you are polling a client from a culture that has shame or obligation based traditional rules (like Asian), or a culture that does not support open group discussion of patriarchal weakness (Latino), then you will have a lower rate of compliance (in the clinical sense).
Am I making sense?
I'm familiar with the "cult" mentality of the 12 step community, like I said....its derived from a christian root organization called "The Oxford Group" so do you honestly think that it can shed those roots? No. The organization cannot, nor should they rid themselves of that which forms the basis of their ideology.
The axiom most pertinent to this topic is "Some things work for some people some of the time". Thats a truism in the behavioral health and recovery professions. 12 step works for many people to some degree or another.
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