Sociopaths and Thought reform in China---- any of it sound familiar?

[Woof-a-Doof]

Of late a few words have jumped the synaptic breaches in my brain. They are not words that we are unfamiliar with, but they are words non-the less have struck cords recently in my psyche. Having less and less time on my hands I am finding more time making the research and having an application read them to me…lazy, yeah I know. But for me it covers more territory than simply reading.

Sociopath Personalities; yeah I have professional experience with them on a clinical level. I got the Sociopath and the psychopathic individuals confussed constantly…I never really thought of them as separate pathologies…but that is all subject to debate. For the purpose of this post I wish to avoid that and focus on the Sociopath.

Snooping around the internet in an effort to define the Sociopath for ones that are clear and concise was challenging, I found a bullet list that kinda sums up the general characteristic of the sociopath. It can be found here http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_kn ... _sociopath

And it lists as follows:
·   Glibness/Superficial Charm
·   Manipulative and Conning
·   Grandiose Sense of Self
·   Pathological Lying
·   Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
·   Shallow Emotions
·   Incapacity for Love
·   Need for Stimulation
·   Callousness/Lack of Empathy
·   Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
·   Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
·   Irresponsibility/Unreliability
·   Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
·   Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
·   Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
·   Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
·   Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
·   Authoritarian
·   Secretive
·   Paranoid
·   Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
·   Conventional appearance
·   Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
·   Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
·   Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
·   Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
·   Incapable of real human attachment to another
·   Unable to feel remorse or guilt
·   Narcissism, grandiosity (self-importance not based on achievements)
·   May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

How interesting it is to think of former staff members and have this list in front of me. Each bullet speaks volumes!

The DSM-IV defines the Sociopath as:

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
    A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
    B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
    C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
    D. Repeated assaults on others.
    E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
    F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.
    G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder

On first read the DSM-IV seems a bit restrictive, but then again…. we are not privy to the medical histories of our perpetrators. Yet we were subjected to their whims. And expected to do so willingly….which most of us did.

For years I looked at most if not all staff as pathetic pieces of shit, to be despised. I had little if any compassion for them. This is still true to this day. But the sociopathic personality has begun to explain more and more. The sociopath minions we are all familiar with answered to other “superior” sociopath's.who answered to still yet other sociopaths.

The term “7th Step Society also speaks volumes. Was the goal to create or to further establish a society of sociopaths? Didn't Hitler have a similar dream with his lil Brown shirts?…A perfect  society of Straightlings seems hauntingly familiar. To me, it is becoming more and more clear we were under the sociopathic guidance…to what end, I Am not sure. But it seems clear to me that methodologies utilized in Straight Inc. at best were corrupt. But also consider information I found from a book on the “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China” by Robert Jay Lifton.

I had always heard of Korean Camps as the source of our treatment's . I could never find validation of that idea. However finding information of other methods proved most informative. An excerpt of the book can be found here http://www.factnet.org/Purchase_Books/T ... talism.htm It’s a bit lengthy, but the comparison is uncanny.

Just few things to consider.

Namaste
woof

[seamus]

Wicked post ! Good to hear from you . Hope UR ok

[Froderik]

Thanks for starting this thread.... The original post begs the question: how much of that sociopathic behavior rubbed off on us (from Straight and/or parental illness)? A few of those general characteristics on that list hit a little close to home, if you know what I mean....

[psy]

another copy of that book's chapter can be found here:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing19.html

A great book that covers just about all the things program related is "cults in our midst" by Margaret Thaler Singer.  Try and get the 1995 edition if you can (before certain cults brought out the lawyers and cut the balls off her book).

[Anonymous]

And it lists as follows:
·   Glibness/Superficial Charm
·   Manipulative and Conning
·   Grandiose Sense of Self
·   Pathological Lying
·   Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
·   Shallow Emotions
·   Incapacity for Love
·   Need for Stimulation
·   Callousness/Lack of Empathy
·   Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
·   Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
·   Irresponsibility/Unreliability
·   Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
·   Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
·   Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
·   Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
·   Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
·   Authoritarian
·   Secretive
·   Paranoid
·   Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
·   Conventional appearance
·   Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
·   Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
·   Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
·   Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
·   Incapable of real human attachment to another
·   Unable to feel remorse or guilt
·   Narcissism, grandiosity (self-importance not based on achievements)
·   May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

Sounds like my high school principal.

[Woof-a-Doof]

Seamus: Eh…things are a lil ruff right now. I AM, ok…but my mom, not so much. She was diag. with Pancreatic Cancer. Oddly enuff, she is at peace with it, my pops on the other hand I think is coming unglued. He has been married to her for 62 years…she is just probably relieved to get away from the ole bastard!

Froderik: In your response you asked a valuable question and an equally powerful statement. Without sounding like a smart ass, we were the targets of  “the program”. Daily we were bombarded with this insanity/abuse. How could we walk away un-affected? Literally, we were their captive audience. How many times did people run, only to have the cops return them back to Straight? How many articles were written in the St. Pete Times in regard to Straight, long before they closed the doors? As far back as January 21st 1978 the Times wrote articles…it was because of one of them I was incarcerated. MY dad read that they “kicked ass” and he honestly felt I needed an ass beating.

That brings up the second part of your question…”parental illness”. I can only speak for my dad and his shenanigans. Long before Straight, he had an opportunity to become involve with a cat named David Wilkerson, who wrote a book called the “Cross and the Switch Blade”  This guys claim to fame was a “youth ministry” geared towards getting trouble youth back on track. I recall attending a massive meeting or display at a coliseum in Savannah Ga. Once. I saw scores of “junkies” lining up to literally throw their rigs and dope up on the stage. This was back in the late 60’s…I was mesmerized by the hippie movement and my Dad despised them. In short he came real close to accepting a job with this guy.

Another example was my Dad having an opportunity to work with the Billy Graham foundation. My dad was never one to be up front…. about anything…so he was almost always in the background, quietly supporting people, movements, including Straight Inc.

So, I would venture to say that although not a sociopath, he certainly was not above supporting them with blind abandon. I would also say that he felt completely justified fuelling the mayhem. Historically, he had always wanted to be a part of something grand and with purpose…so Straight was his chance to do so. Yet I wonder what makes one susceptible to being duped.

Sure, at the time there was lotsa hype and hub-bub about Straight Inc. But his susceptibility existed long before Straight….Military Training perhaps? He was a pilot and once bragged to me that he could drop an apple into a barrel from 25000 feet. I remember asking him if it bothered him that he was dropping bombs that killed civilians, women and innocent children….His response….”I was trained to do just that”

Clearly the US military is filled with sociopaths and training a normal kid to kill, takes weeks…but it can be done. Few sociopaths training hundreds of other sociopaths…if only during war time….as if! My own military training thru testing and such had me at one time fully trained to sit idly by when we went to “BATTLE STATIONS BATTLE STATIONS…The Ship IS PREPAIRED TO LAUNCH A NUCLEAR WEAPON. How fucked up is that?

PSY: Yup same snippets as from the pages I found it. If I am not mistaken it is almost word for word the same. My hunch is that you are much younger than I am, which is to your advantage, clearly. I was locked up over 30 years ago for 3 1/2 years. Most of my fight is fading, cept for the occasional knucklehead. I visited your web site and am deeply impressed with your efforts! They are to be applauded.

Nancy Reagan who after visiting Straight Inc. was quoted for saying infamously…. “JUST SAY NO”… We all know what a ridiculous statement this is. But what if we say “NO” to the sociopaths….the ones in our government, the ones in our courthouses, the ones in our military. Could we? Do we have the balls? Do we have the tenacity? Can we suffer the ridicule? Could we go to jail for it? You betcha!

Read this article written in 1976….just two years before I was incarcerated….It’s on Concentration Camps for US Citizens by William R.Pabst It can be found here http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/us-con ... .htm#intro It has a article on the Mental Health System and Drug Propaganda that is uncanny!

The government is fully prepared for suppression of it’s own citizens…. examine the Patriot Act. Enacted quickly after September the 11th 2001. It’s a horrible thought to think our own government is capable of doing such a thing…..and I will probably catch shit… However, in the early 1960 a paper was drafted that drew together the plans for a mock invasion from Cuba. Cities were to be destroyed, thousands to be killed. Say it can’t be done? It was. It was drawn as an effort to create a national panic where our government would step in and take control of the situation. A nemesis was to be made of Castro and his regime. Sound familiar yet? We would lead the world in the dissolution of Cuba’s government…. Because of what was done… our own national pride and honor would demand revenge. Sociopaths at the helm…Oy!

Fortunately it didn’t happen, but now the freedom of information act makes this information known. If it was ok back then, who’s to say that it wasn’t ok, on Sept 10th 2001?

I digress

If the URL I listed earlier, regarding the Concentration Camps is to be trusted. Would it be any surprise that as children we were abused in such a manner? The studies had already been completed and all the little minions in place. All the sociopaths of any caliber were/are in place…doing what sociopaths do!

I sometimes think that the rational for the talismanic jargon was to keep the “healthy” separate from the sociopath. If not to flat out confuse and control with the self talk we all kinda inherited. I attribute this directly to the Staff….members of the BOD…. And I think they were minions to “greater” authority (sociopaths higher up on the food chain).

To say we were pawns, is a gross understatement. The question becomes, pawns to whom and for what purpose. Most of that have an aim for blame…usually aim at Mel Sember ultimately. But I wonder if any one would post the BOD, who and where are they now? Taking it further yet, who do/did they “answer” to. Come on, Straight Inc. went on for a long time (and it aint like people didn’t know). We had the Royals attention, Princess Di and our own First Lady… And the sociopaths danced to be sure!

As survivors, we are still pawns…misfit toys…damaged goods….

Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D., and Richard Ofshe, Ph. D. said : “The person feels like an immigrant or refugee who enters a new culture. However, the person is reentering his or her former culture, bringing along a series of experiences and beliefs from the group with which he or she had affiliated that conflict with norms and expectations. Unlike the immigrant confronting merely novel situations, the returnee is confronting a rejected society. Thus, most people leaving a thought reform program have a period in which they need to put together the split or doubled self they maintained while they were in the group and come to terms with their pre-group sense of self.”

I always remember Betty Sembler saying in regard to “Life after Straight”…a request for an apology to which she replied….”You folks just need to get over it!”. Perhaps the best retort would be for her to “Get over her Holocaust Museum!” …. Hmmm… a post with both Mel and Betty Semblers name in a post with the words “sociopath” and “minion” at the same time….funny how that turned out

Nuff said for now
In Peace
woof

[Ursus]

Oh, I think BODs tell loads about a place. Sometimes the biggest ideological zealot is at the obvious helm, but sometimes there are even bigger ones hiding in the BODs.

But I also do think that you will certainly find the ones with the eyes hardest on the financial aspects hiding in the BOD, not at the helm. They have that slight distance that inhibits their getting too carried away by the histrionics.

[Froderik]

Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D., and Richard Ofshe, Ph. D. said : “The person feels like an immigrant or refugee who enters a new culture. However, the person is reentering his or her former culture, bringing along a series of experiences and beliefs from the group with which he or she had affiliated that conflict with norms and expectations. Unlike the immigrant confronting merely novel situations, the returnee is confronting a rejected society. Thus, most people leaving a thought reform program have a period in which they need to put together the split or doubled self they maintained while they were in the group and come to terms with their pre-group sense of self.”

People who have been subjected to a cult (like Straight) are the only folks who can fully understand this.

[Woof-a-Doof]

It’s early Wed. and I have to ready myself for the day…so I will be forced to be brief (oh gawd)

Ursus: ya said “But I also do think that you will certainly find the ones with the eyes hardest on the financial aspects hiding in the BOD, not at the helm. They have that slight distance that inhibits their getting too carried away by the histrionics. But I also do think that you will certainly find the ones with the eyes hardest on the financial aspects hiding in the BOD, not at the helm. They have that slight distance that inhibits their getting too carried away by the histrionics.”

Exactly, these are the sociopaths that are higher up on the food chain as it were. Yet I gather they also answer to others who actually fund the atrocities. These folks expect results and their minions supply them.

Froderik: Quote from: woof
Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D., and Richard Ofshe, Ph. D. said : “The person feels like an immigrant or refugee who enters a new culture. However, the person is reentering his or her former culture, bringing along a series of experiences and beliefs from the group with which he or she had affiliated that conflict with norms and expectations. Unlike the immigrant confronting merely novel situations, the returnee is confronting a rejected society. Thus, most people leaving a thought reform program have a period in which they need to put together the split or doubled self they maintained while they were in the group and come to terms with their pre-group sense of self.”

”People who have been subjected to a cult (like Straight) are the only folks who can fully understand this.”

Without a doubt!


In Peace
woof

[seamus]

ditto,pm me

[Anonymous]

See, what I think about is micro and macro cults. I'll just dive in because I know some people have already discussed this generally, as in "Straight is the whole society". I want to think about this really and I'm not sure where to start. But one of the first things I think is that once again here we are pointing fingers. It is not that I think that is wrong. But to isolate "them" from "us" precludes some other possibilities. I'm not talking about "logs vs. splinters in eyes". I'm talking about opening the topic a little bit more. Like how it feels to live in a cult. One phenomenon of the completely coerced and constantly watched cult member, like we were as minors, is "talking in code". That is, from survivor stories, I have heard that people wishing to cop out with "host brothers" or whatever would break a few rules to let the other guy know "in code" he wanted to cop out and there was safe space between them for violation of rules. Sort of a subtopic here is what this kind of constant hiddenness of what you really think and want does to a person psychologically, to their voice and mind. To live like that for a period of months or years in one's teenage years, think about it. Even years after Straight I would get confused talking to people, as though they were trying to communicate things they weren't saying, or I was saying things I was not supposed to say, but didn't know the rule that I wasn't supposed to say it. I am not sure what that is all about and how to get over it. I think I can't be the only survivor to understand Mrs. Nash when she says to John, "this is real." ~ that is, her love and gesture of love.

Back to pointing fingers, what I really mean is that a cult operates by all the members in it. It is a Total Torture Institution. Well I just coined that, but let me try to explain or give some examples. We all get that the cult operated by our parents' agreement, by staff and B.O.D. and judge and police, etc. But hey, it also operated by those misbehavers on the floor and the "example" the cult made out of them to the rest of us who at that time did not have the foresight to look back and see how that was just as fine and damaging a choice as was participation, but who were instead rejecting the role of the misbehaver. Although I will concede that I can feel in my memories an admiration, actually, for them, I didn't want to be them. I didn't want to get stuck back on "frozen in your days", just wanted to try every day to play the game right, guessing and guessing, trying and still getting abused until by some magical whatever I did whatever to get respos then 2nd phase, etc. Having not secured a lawyer, any of us who were falserumoredly imprisoned by threat of jail-term or Straight, "our choice", this seemed the only choice.

The myth of choice in the torture victim! The myth of personal power! I don't have my references with me, but it goes like this: the torturer makes the victim stand, say, with arms stretched out. Hold that position. The victim complies or faces other punishment. And yet, the position is impossible. Sooner or later the muscles fatigue. The arms will fall. The victim has engaged his own will in the drama and by that is also tortured, see, complicit in the struggle to keep the arms up. The body fights the demand. The will produces the pain.

So I really think we suffered something truly, truly awful. And I know there is great solidarity out there with us, against Them that Did It To Us. But if Straight is in the bigger society, then I want to understand what it is, how it is, and be able to speak about it intelligently.

I'm just trying to say there are different ways to delineate some of what we want to talk about here. I am glad for the cold and lonely internet comfort of people who somewhere inside really do understand even if we present with some other facade outwardly. I am glad for that, at least. I am not glad for the fact that I feel frightened. I am not glad for the facts of why I feel frightened. I am tired of being bullied, whether actually or by mirage of my own trauma.

And to my frightened feelings I say this: They All Know We Are Talking About A Revolution. I'm just not sure we are talking about the same revolution. I'm not sure we know how. I'm not sure we (survivors) are the best people for it. It might be fair to say "we're too affected by trauma". On the other hand, who can speak more rightly about all the facets of the kind of torture that leaves few or no visible scars? To say that Straight is in the bigger society means that we see things other people wouldn't necessarily notice, or we know the effects. Like, you don't have to restrain everyone, you just have to knock a few of them down hard enough. You just have to teach people that their medical and private and hygiene and emotional needs don't matter. Stuff like that. On the other other hand, non-survivors definitely are not the best people for it. They much more easily participate in it, not really getting it. So think about what it means to be a survivor. I think some ways it means accepting simply that you are very, very alone in a very crazy world.

It's not that I like fornits, it's just that I had to say some things here to let some people know that I am not happy with their ideas of the way I should be treated and what I should do and have to do and should be terrorized into doing. I don't agree because I can't. I had to say some things to say some things.

I do truly thank the brave people who have taken the time, risk and trouble to look into things with the motivation of securing for people the right to freedom from harassment and violations of human rights.

As there is a lot of reverberation for myself, I ask the gentle to bless my words, bless the readers of these words, increase understanding and peace.



Even by your rage and spit you make me human, misbehaver, when you look into my eyes.

[Froderik]

Sort of a subtopic here is what this kind of constant hiddenness of what you really think and want does to a person psychologically, to their voice and mind. To live like that for a period of months or years in one's teenage years, think about it. Even years after Straight I would get confused talking to people, as though they were trying to communicate things they weren't saying, or I was saying things I was not supposed to say, but didn't know the rule that I wasn't supposed to say it. I am not sure what that is all about and how to get over it.

Fuck if I don't know exactly what you are talking about here! Goddamn, it makes me think of bad trips where I thought people were speaking in 'code' around me, which ultimately would end with me trying to run from the situation, or try and call out the people who I felt were putting my sanity under attack. Sure, maybe we could chalk it up to the potentially ill effects of the acid, but perhaps there really was more to it than just that; maybe the acid helped magnify things that would normally just weird me out a little... I know I wouldn't be the first person to state that I was socially awkward when I got out of the Straight cult. I didn't know what to make of things that I probably should have just shrugged off.

I like your entire post. It raises some interesting questions. I'll have to leave it at that for now...

[seamus]

socially ackward dont begin to cover it ,I spent 21mos in state school ,moved to Fl then10 mos later wind up in the morgan yacht bld,any hoo these days I just do what I do,like a viking, or an animal, dont pass 2 much judgement on myself,like Popeye said"I am What I am"

[seamus]

Oh yeah, I forgot,FUCK EM