Author Topic: When did you "wake up"?  (Read 9102 times)

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Offline AuntieEm2

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When did you "wake up"?
« on: January 10, 2008, 04:12:01 PM »
AuntieEm2 wrote:
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I have made contact with several really, really sharp adolescent mental health doctors and therapists, though I am trying to find someone with experience with cults.
alia wrote:
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i would honestly be less concerned with finding someone sharp, and more concerned with someone very warm. someone kind. tenderness is very important because it is the most lacking thing in these environments.
Yes, poor choice of words on my part, I agree warmth, tenderness, patience, kindness, understanding, and healing are all needed.

I found those characteristics in these two therapists (I talked with at least half a dozen). By "sharp" I mean other stuff like they are knowledgeable about dysfunctional family dynamics, they understand the traumatic nature of the programs, they approach teen behavior issues with a completely open lens (including looking at the family as a whole, exploring possibilities like exposure to toxins or whether medications are the issue, etc.), they don't see things in black and white, and they would be advocates for my niece's needs alone--not mine, not her parents', only hers.  

You know, all these respected experts I've talked to agree: the therapeutic boarding school programs do not comport with any professional standard of care that is taught or practiced in the U.S.

alia wrote:
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imagine being raped daily for 2 and a half years by a family friend and then suddenly returned home where no one knows anything about it and trust the family friend far more than they trust you.
Yikes, scary but helpful analogy. My situation is chicken feed by comparision, but I, too, feel that many of my family members choose to trust the secretive and manipulative parents rather than (loyal and trustworthy) me, when I am doing detailed research and offering mountains of credible documentation. I know how much that hurts me, and my niece's experience must be a hundred times as hurtful.
 
alia wrote:
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so she is going to need a lot of patience and expressions of her worth. she will be completely convinced of her worthlessness, and be actively projecting that worthlessness onto you regularly, and my become enraged, and expose your deepest secrets, the ones you are in denial about, we all have them, and she will sniff them out and shove your face in them because she beleives thats the right thing to do.
Yes, not sure what I will be getting myself into, but I love her.

alia wrote:
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and unfortunately dont expect her to want any sort of counseling.
I'm prepared to accept that she may reject me and the friendship I want to give her; she may not be interested in any advice or help from anyone.  

You suggest going there, and you offer to go with if you could  because "the most healing thing she could experience is a clear condemnation of what they are doing." I'm working on it. I really am wrestling with what comes next.  

Thanks, Alia.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 04:10:11 AM »
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well i think it would have helped me a lot if ANYONE in my family, as soon as i got out, really sat me down and told me 'look, i am so sorry i could not get you out of there, but i know it was wrong what they did, and if you ever want to talk about what they did to you, what they made you do, you can talk to me about it."

i think that would have helped me a lot, cause i knew it was wrong, but i thought everyone in the universe agreed with them, cause thats how they made it out


I've been thinking about this Alia, like Auntie, who's niece is in a program, I have a child in a treatment center RIGHT NOW. Many months since I've  spoken to my child.

What you said above is exactly what I intended to say, however I am worried that my child will disagree, that I'M the one who will appear wrong, after so much convincing the program's ideals are the correct ones.

The graduates of the programs are PRETTY convinced the program is great, saved their life etc., seems anything contradictory is strongly opposed by the graduates.

Would I be seen as anything but the enemy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

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When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 04:21:02 AM »
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Would I be seen as anything but the enemy?


Probably not, but she will remember you and what you said when she *does* come around.

Those things very much need to be said right when she gets out of the grinder, but best to formulate it in a question and answer kind of thing. One thing that she is going to be adverse to is being lectured, since she has had her fill of that already. Best to just ask her what it was like, listen to her answers, then ask her things that question the validity and logic of the program, but in a gentle way. "Don't you think that is kind of extreme?" "No." "Why not?" That kinda stuff. Let her have the conversation, she hasn't in a while. She will probably interrupt you a lot. Every program survivor I have talked to has terrible conversation manners (including myself) We constantly step over each other's sentences.


All it takes is to plant a seed...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2008, 03:18:24 AM »
Thanks Castle, We were already having the conversational manners problem prior to treatment!

He'll be 18 in a few months, but court ordered to the program, I sure hope he contacts me when he gets out.
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Offline try another castle

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When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 06:15:11 PM »
Oh sorry. For some reason I thought "she". Probably because Auntie Em was talking about her neice.
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Offline Anonymous

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Auntie Em/ Parent of son
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2008, 06:33:29 PM »
I know that many, possibly most, recent graduates are too Koolaid riddled to have perspective on the damaging cultic aspects on the program.  I split and I still --I'm ashamed to admit-- held onto the false perception that CEDU was ultimately beneficial.   Even though the evidence to the contrary was mountainous.

I gave up so much of myself, put in such arduous emotional work, that I had to believe that it was well meaning and purposeful.  When I left, I had no one to discuss it with... in fact, most people now can't wrap their minds around it.  They have a hard time believing this happens in the US.  Thus, I held onto false beliefs for a long time, while simultaneously feeling enormously conflicted... There was an inner disconnect with the idea that I tried to self promote,that CEDU had its uses.  

If it did, why did I have so any nightmares about it, ten, fifteen, years later?  Why couldn't I specify exactly what was beneficial? Why did I still grapple with the same core issues that were never resolved because CEDU wasn't equipped to do so? Why did I feel a disconnect from "civilian" society that I never previously experienced?

In my graduate and child development studies, I began to realize that CEDU's practices were antithetical to any type of true social/emotional development.

But at the time I left, I don't know if I could have accepted consciously what I knew at my core: that CEDU was emotionally, spiritually, and socially stunting.  

I just invested and divested too much of myself to accept it was not only all for naught, but inherently damaging.  I couldn't also deal with the attendant anger toward my parents and referring therapists, as well as the certainty that people who were entrusted to help me, hurt me. That there were whole industries created to do this.

So, I don't know where Auntie Em's niece and Treatment Mom's child will be; but I do know to tread lovingly, but carefully.  Because a lot of the time, it is too mindblowing to accept reality all at once... and when you do, you also feel a great sense of loss. A loss of innocence, trust, and self.  You now have to deal with primary issues that preceded CEDU, dismantling the Stepford model you have become, and uncovering the muck to find out who you really are.
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Offline Che Gookin

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When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 06:48:32 PM »
8.07 this morning and it is cold.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline alia23

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 07:41:13 PM »
auntie em, 

i am so there for you.  i have not been online cause my boyfriend and i just moved into a new home, but we are getting settled now.  just let me know what i can do and i am there.  it would be my pleasure to assist in exposing anyone who is still doing this to kids, or adults for that matter.  :)

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
well i think it would have helped me a lot if ANYONE in my family, as soon as i got out, really sat me down and told me 'look, i am so sorry i could not get you out of there, but i know it was wrong what they did, and if you ever want to talk about what they did to you, what they made you do, you can talk to me about it."

i think that would have helped me a lot, cause i knew it was wrong, but i thought everyone in the universe agreed with them, cause thats how they made it out

I've been thinking about this Alia, like Auntie, who's niece is in a program, I have a child in a treatment center RIGHT NOW. Many months since I've  spoken to my child.

What you said above is exactly what I intended to say, however I am worried that my child will disagree, that I'M the one who will appear wrong, after so much convincing the program's ideals are the correct ones.

The graduates of the programs are PRETTY convinced the program is great, saved their life etc., seems anything contradictory is strongly opposed by the graduates.

Would I be seen as anything but the enemy?


hi :)  i dont really know your situation, but if this is your child, why dont you just take her out of the program immediately??

the people who say it is worse to leave in the middle than to see it thru are dead wrong.  no no no no no.  no need to 'stick it out' or 'see it thru'  its like any other sort of abuse, the less the better.
so why is your child still in the program?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
lia
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Offline seamus

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 12:50:58 PM »
I Was A staff trainee at straight inc,during the beginning of the newton regime,group had moved from mogan yacht to the "new" bldg I was being trained as a staff member for sarasota,miller had some poor bastard,time outed,and it got out of hand,I said to myself,wtf ,how is this help?I made jr staff at the next open mtg.I quit the next day. I knew I was fucked.I knew the system was eating its self .     Have you ever seen an animal caught in a leg trap? It chews and chews at its own leg,fucking horrrific,I couldnt go on,I had to go I thought it would hang over me it did.people wouldnt talk to me ,I wasnt kicked out of 7 step society but aways felt like persona non grata,so,I said fuck this ,only really talked to Chuck Cannon after that.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 05:09:09 PM »
For a first-hand account from a former "student" at one of these cultish "theraputic" prisons, Cascade ( formed by former CEDU "staff") read Alison Weaver's "Gone to the Crazies".  Any parent who can read that and still have any kind of trust or faith in these places is nuts. If you want a taste of what it is really like to be held prisoner there read it. And I don't believe the "courts" practise much oversight when they order kids to be there either.

The evil of it is that the "staff", most of whom are uneducated, unqualified former drug addicts with a multitude of personal problems , have taken some good theraputic and philosophical ideas polluted and twisted them with their own narcissism and puked up quasi-"therapy" that does a great deal of harm.  Like all good cult members, say for instance the Manson family, they truly believe in what they are selling.  And many students get some benefit much in the same way an abused person does get some love after all of the beatings.  The sad thing is these "benefits" can be had with a really good trust-worthy therapist, a supportive network of loving family and friends and sometimes just by going to the library or bookstore and reading through the literature to gain insight.  The one thing these places do not do, which is the most important step to accomplishing any kind of theraputic benefit to the student is to hold the parents accountable for their role.  The whole focus, the shame, the blaming, the hard work is all put on the kid.  
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 01:03:24 PM »
Very well said.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2008, 08:19:51 AM »
Fortunately, I never fell asleep...
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Offline da voice from nowhere

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2008, 05:52:04 PM »
Quote from: "alia23"
auntie em, 

i am so there for you.  i have not been online cause my boyfriend and i just moved into a new home, but we are getting settled now.  just let me know what i can do and i am there.  it would be my pleasure to assist in exposing anyone who is still doing this to kids, or adults for that matter.  :)

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
well i think it would have helped me a lot if ANYONE in my family, as soon as i got out, really sat me down and told me 'look, i am so sorry i could not get you out of there, but i know it was wrong what they did, and if you ever want to talk about what they did to you, what they made you do, you can talk to me about it."

i think that would have helped me a lot, cause i knew it was wrong, but i thought everyone in the universe agreed with them, cause thats how they made it out

I've been thinking about this Alia, like Auntie, who's niece is in a program, I have a child in a treatment center RIGHT NOW. Many months since I've  spoken to my child.

What you said above is exactly what I intended to say, however I am worried that my child will disagree, that I'M the one who will appear wrong, after so much convincing the program's ideals are the correct ones.

The graduates of the programs are PRETTY convinced the program is great, saved their life etc., seems anything contradictory is strongly opposed by the graduates.

Would I be seen as anything but the enemy?


hi :)  i dont really know your situation, but if this is your child, why dont you just take her out of the program immediately??

the people who say it is worse to leave in the middle than to see it thru are dead wrong.  no no no no no.  no need to 'stick it out' or 'see it thru'  its like any other sort of abuse, the less the better.
so why is your child still in the program?

the mindfucking is still somewhat mellow midway through the program...remember, it takes about this long to get the mind nice and ready to integrate with the kool-aid...get your kid out while you still know who he/she is...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2008, 06:04:55 PM »
Thanks for the comments.

If I had any control over the decision, I would never have sent her in the first place. No one in the family had a clue what my niece's parents were up to, and if they had only asked, we would certainly have asked her to come live with us. By the time we knew, it was a done deal. She's been there a long time now, almost 2 years, and everybody seems determined to break her spirit, poor dear. You know, like that's a good thing--what are they thinking??

How can you restore a lost childhood? In addition to all the injustices of sending her to BCA, there is no retriving the lost years, and she won't get another chance at a decent high school education. 

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
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Offline Awake

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 12:49:38 AM »
Hey Auntiem2.  You may remember me having posted here recently. Well, looks like fornits crashed or something so the last 3 months of posts were wiped out... which happened to be right as I got involved here. So as of now this is my first appearance --AGAIN-- so I figured this was as good a place to start seeing as it inspired my handle "Awake".  When did I wake up?

It really began 3-4 months ago for me after having a very unusual compulsion to write b/c a Samuel Beckett novel I was reading inspired me too. For some reason the content of my writing just directed itself to CEDU. I really don't know why. For a few weeks I just drank excessively and wrote sort of unconsciously. Eventually I just hit a point where I couldn't remember enough detail about CEDU and it was kind of driving me nuts. But I would have flashes of memory return and I remembered how messed up some of those experiences were. I ended up needing to find out more about CEDU on the intrnet and found the HEAL website and found out CEDU was closed down in '04 ( damn... 4 yrs later...wish I knew sooner... anyways). I didn't sleep for the next two days. I kept remembering things and really, at points, felt like I was back there. Like remembering the first night you spent after being forcefully removed from your home at 3 a.m. that morning when you swore to yourself that you'd run... but just laid there frozen and awake the whole night. Or some moment in raps. Smooshing? ummm.  But for the life of me I couldn't remember the propheets... or much anyway. Well, to make an already long story a little shorter, I EVENTUALLY found this site and the plethera of information was... overwhelming. By the time I read your thead here I guess I chose the name to acknowledge that my awareness of CEDU's straight up brainwashing did not occur to me until I finally saw that I wasn't the only one who felt that way about that place. Seriously... I tried hanging out with a BUNCH of CEDU friend after getting out and ( although it was weird for several reasons) no one really said  "Hey ...anyone else think that shit was really fucked up... like REALLY fucked up?"

So yea. Since then I've kind of obsessively researched CEDU and gotten alot of good answers from others here.... but the last 3mo. of fornits is gone so that stuffs gone too. Hopefully we can re-hash some of those topics.
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