Author Topic: When did you "wake up"?  (Read 9107 times)

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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2008, 12:37:46 PM »
Indeed, I do remember you, Awake. Hope you are doing okay as you process these difficult memories.

As I understand it, part of what you all were taught was not to question whether the "therapy" and the CEDU way of life was messed up. It makes perfect sense to me that you would need time and space to even begin reflecting on what happened. Our brains protect us, actually, by filtering our memories and blocking out painful ones, in theory until we are better able to cope with them. Or sometimes memories are triggered--you are no doubt aware of how this happens for many survivors of child sexual abuse--and many people here have been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) which is basically the same thing, the disruptive trauma of triggered memories.

Since we are trying to rebuild lost postings, I will again list the Hemingway quote here:
Quote
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are stronger in the broken places. But those it will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially." --Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929
Being "stronger at the broken places" is the part I wish for you.

I can never get used to the stories about being taken from one's bed in the middle of the night by the escort services...anyone who does not understand how utterly and completely and unforgiveably traumatic that would be is just heartless. This is the stuff of nightmares.

Awake, have you found anyone you can talk to about all this? Significant other, trustworthy therapist or understanding friend?

AuntieEm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
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Offline psy

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2008, 03:38:42 PM »
Quote from: "Awake"
but the last 3mo. of fornits is gone so that stuffs gone too. Hopefully we can re-hash some of those topics.


Check this out.

Chances are, you can find most, if not all, of the last three months in Google's cache.  It's nothing like the original, I know, but if and until we can get ahold of a more recent backup, it'll have to do.  I apologize for the trouble this has caused and we really should have been more frequent with the off-site backups.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Awake

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2008, 11:17:01 PM »
The most shocking part of "waking up" happened for me once I realized I really had changed how I had lived my life after CEDU.  I hated Cedu but never denounced it. I'm sure that, for awhile, I still defended their philosophies. I actually remember telling my story to a couple of non-cedu friends .... just the way I was taught and left out no disclosures. Why I did not realize that was not socially appropriate I can only say is because that was Cedu. Whether telling OR hearing anothers story, it was a daily activity. Initially I thought that the people I had shallow friendships with were not really of value and could be disregareded. Eventually though, you realize NO ONE is open and honest and transparent... like at CEDU. B/C Cedu you were picked apart every day and everyone knew each others inner intimate details. If that wasn't enough social distortion to confuse me there was also the "look good" factor.

If I learned anything at Cedu it was to "play the game".  We all did, whether we knew it or not. Despite all the confusion of trying to understand how to fit in at Cedu I knew what to do in about a week. Sure, everyone sat alone during their first Last Light where the whole school all laid down and smooshed on command. But a week later I was smooshing too. For awhile I was just playin the game. When a school is entirely maintaned by the students you learn to follow the rules quick. Not just the rules though, the survival method necessary to get through daily life. Not only do you analyze your own behavior obsesively for things that could be thrown in your face in raps, but you analyze others that way too. We were encouraged to attack others behaviors. After Cedu that never left. The extreme analysis of myself and others, though I learned not to voice it.  Even after Cedu part of me was still "playin the game", learning how to find a niche within groups and then disconnecting abruplty once things started getting deep.

Years later I had already disconnected from any Cedu connections I had AND had begun to think that relationships were just bullshit in general. If my Cedu friendships weren't deep and real then I was just incapable of having friendships, I blamed myself. But eventually I just believed that was the way the world was. People were all just calous and indifferent and "playin the game" at the expense of others. Once I realized that this worldview was one I adopted as a result of CEDU.... that was when I really woke up. It wasn't just the time I spent there, but all the time since too.
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Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2008, 11:24:47 PM »
You took the words right out of my mouth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2008, 08:10:56 AM »
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
You took the words right out of my mouth.
ditto,

What really woke me up was realizing I had adopted an entirely new version of "real" and "at cause" (reality and causality).  I realized that everybody around me on the outside wasn't actually "fake"... they just had a more appropriate sense of when to say how much.  I stopped expecting everybody to tell their life story in intimate details at a first or second meeting.  I realized that trust was earned, not an expectation of disclosure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 09:40:20 PM »
Just got out of the car as 'best of you'came on.


I've got another confession to make
I'm your fool

(Cedu student)

Everyone's got their chains to break
Holdin' you

(valid concept ruined by cedu kool aid overdosage)

Were you born to resist or be abused?
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?

(the omnipresent million dollar question while at CEDU and the following 15 years)

Are you gone and onto someone new?
I needed somewhere to hang my head
Without your noose
You gave me something that I didn't have
But had no use
I was too weak to give in
Too strong to lose
My heart is under arrest again
But I break loose


My head is giving me life or death
But I can't choose

(Holy shit it's the  I & Me meets 'I want to live')

I swear I'll never give in
I refuse

(Mindset until you realize that not capitulating to the program is a terrible decision)

Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Has someone taken your faith?

(Uh, yes, in fact Mel took it in spades - he took it and charged me a $150 a day)

Its real, the pain you feel
You trust, you must
Confess

(AKA Get out your dirt lists and your kool aid courage for disclosures)

Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Oh...

Oh...Oh...Oh...Oh...


Has someone taken your faith?
Its real, the pain you feel
The life, the love
You die to heal

(Die to heal, yes that concept feels very familiar. We had to completely destroy our self concept in order to 'get' the program)

The hope that starts
The broken hearts
You trust, you must
Confess

Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?


I've got another confession my friend
I'm no fool
I'm getting tired of starting again
Somewhere new

(The voice in the back of our head we wish we would have listened to)

Were you born to resist or be abused?
I swear I'll never give in
I refuse

Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Has someone taken your faith?
Its real, the pain you feel
You trust, you must
Confess
Is someone getting the best, the best, the best, the best of you?
Oh...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DKXGpMGY_o

Psy anway to insert just a hyperlink ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Awake

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2008, 12:23:17 AM »
I must say this whole business of waking up has been continuous. Does anyone else have that strange sensation that you're not out of the woods yet? In a strange way, since you've endured the expeience, do you feel like you have a broader awareness in the world around you yet can't put your finger on it? Even in defiance of cedu I still view "civilians" as not having the ability to percieve how guided their lives are for the reason that they haven't experienced being subjected to intensive psychologically manipulative tactics. Initially my reaction was to believe that Cedu was all just a crock of shit (rightly so). But does anyone else look around and wonder where the cult begins and where it ends? That feeling creeps up on me and I don't know whether I'm being paranoid or if I'm verging on a deeper understanding. I don't know. I just feel like it's  not enough to know Cedu was wrong. I need to know how it's wrong and why. Otherwise I'm unable to trust any social structure. Know what I mean?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2008, 03:38:16 PM »
Awake: I've heard more on this topic from Straight than CEDU survivors... I think many Straight survivors were further radicalized by the experience because their cults existed in open space. On Main Street so to speak.  Because it was more straightforwardly dubbed a drug treatment center, mainstream society criminalized these kids and enabled their institutionalization in a program that relied on degrading them to the point of dehumanization.

AT CEDU, we were more closeted away in a system labeled "emotional growth" rather than drug treatment. In fact, in my era, you had to detox before you were admitted--it was emphatically NOT a drug program. In any event, once again, once you are labeled "trouble teen" society WILL unite in an effort to conform you to its expectations. Many of the kids I knew at CEDU were aggressively intelligent with an inherent "buck the system" tendency.  The system, however, does not want to be bucked.

The reality is we buy and sell lies every day in order to make peace with our role in the system with its arbitrary moral and ethical values.   Living in the mainstream basically necessitates a certain level of conformity and institutionalized thought processes.... You don't always have to play the game, but you need to know the game is being played.

It's not as intense and Big Brother as CEDU was (although we are devolving) in larger society as we aren't under the microscope... also, as long as you give something society values, you can tweak the rules in your favor.

I guess the difference is that in my daily life, I feel less constrained, uncomfortable, and frankly, scared shitless than I did at CEDU.  I also feel more free to express my real thoughts and feelings, as well as freer to live according to my natural inclination. BUT-- this is RELATIVE comparative to CEDU. I still feel like I live amongst sheep who would rather be blind than aware.  (And often, yeah, I play the sheep role, too.) I still feel like I'd be straitjacketed if I were too free with my real sentiments on societal values.  A lot of it has to do with having kids and feeling required to conform on some level, for their benefit. 

I don't know if you can have a society of men that is totally free of social control and manipulation. CEDU was just a ramped up tweaked up hypersurreal version of our institutionalized lives.  Adhering to societal mores can chip away at your soul; CEDU's impact is decidely more implosive.
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Offline Awake

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2008, 05:51:22 PM »
Shanlea, I’ve attempted a couple responses to your post but I wasn’t adding much to what you already said.  But here’s a few thoughts.  I still have this nagging in the back of my head that I just can’t believe I “drank the kool aid” so to speak. That I played the game until I couldn’t tell where reality was anymore. (mind you I would NOT have endorsed Cedu during my entire stay). But I have these flashing memories where I can remember so vividly being the person I was there at specific times. It’s like I’m having a memory of myself when I was in a trance. Even more I remember leaving Cedu and to some degree that trance continued, I guess I still felt like I was under the microscope. Well I read some interesting stuff on trance theory.

Most people slip in and out of various kinds of trance states hundreds of times during what is called the "normal waking state." Gurdjieff taught that to become aware that you are asleep is the first step in waking up.

trance is a specific dissociated state which will always come into existence whenever a set of cognitive objects repeat in a loop. The trance always implies that some cognitive functions are disabled.

So what is a trance? To many psychologists a trance is a state of limited awareness. Some psychologists would also characterize trance as a form of sleep, or dreamlike awareness or a kind of altered state of consciousness. Certainly trance has long been associated with hypnotic states, and with the altered states of consciousness of dervishes, shamans and yogis. Meditation does produce strong trance states. However, in my opinion, trance states are much more common than is normally believed.

So how can you tell if you are in one of these ordinary, unconscious trances? You are in a trance when your attention is limited and there is a certain repetition of thoughts. In an extreme case, your attention is so limited that it feels like "tunnel vision." The repetition of thoughts might be mantras, songs, repeating fantasies, or even the math calculations of balancing your checkbook. That song you can't get out of your head indicates a trance. Concentration, when the mind is focused on a specific problem or thought, is also a form of trance. You could characterize trance cybernetically as an awareness loop, or a circular flow of consciousness


Repetition of mantras, the whirling of dervishes, the chanting and drumming of shamans, the repetition of TV commercials all induce trance by limiting your attention and overloading your mind with repeated thoughts. The purposes may be different, the results may be different, but in my opinion the difference in trance is mainly of degree.

Proselytizing religions often use methods that will induce trance. Peer pressure, confessional types of testimonials, sense deprivation, lack of contradicting testimony, hysteria, hyper-emotionalism all contribute to constrain awareness and to increase suggestibility. Suggestibility continued over time will give rise to hallucinatory trance states. When combined with the rewards of stress release, the trances become pathological and addictive.


http://www.trance.edu/drupal/node/30

….. Reading these ideas on trance made me think about all the ways Cedu used entrancing methods to keep the cognative functions of our brains limited. Recurring states of fear, shock and confusion for various reasons such as upcoming raps or propheets etc.. Work assignments focused on repettetive activity. Exhaustion and even hyperventilation were present in propheets or running your anger (I particularly remember how spacey I was in the I Want to Live when we were given honey to sooth our throats from yelling). Propheet music played over and over and repeated readings of passages in “the Prophet”.  Even sleep is considered a form of trance in this theory and there is no shortage of survivors attesting to having nightmares years later.  As well various survivors talk about not being able to let go like the memory just continues to haunt them. I just find the idea interesting. Are we still in a trance to some degree? Was that their intent? Even their “tools” seem to be more effective in inducing trance than actually directing you toward a moral conclusion. Just the opposite, the tools just give you more to think about, or more to occupy your mental energy. Every decision you made suddenly involved a muriad of ways to process that decision. (Am I living my lie or my truth, What is my little kid saying, am I being my brothers keeper, Am I choosing life or death, my dream or my nightmare? Etc. etc.).  I feel that in general their teachings may have molded our brains in such a way as to sabotage itself by bombarding it with too much information hence limiting our brains functions, or leaving us in a suggestible state of trance. You were too busy thinking about yourself to think about what they were doing.  Seeing that so many people come to fornits to talk about things that happened so long ago seems do indicate a long term trance.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: When did you "wake up"?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2008, 11:21:25 AM »
Quote
...all the ways Cedu used entrancing methods to keep the cognative functions of our brains limited. Recurring states of fear, shock and confusion for various reasons such as upcoming raps or propheets etc.. Work assignments focused on repettetive activity. Exhaustion and even hyperventilation were present in propheets or running your anger (I particularly remember how spacey I was in the I Want to Live when we were given honey to sooth our throats from yelling). Propheet music played over and over and repeated readings of passages in “the Prophet”.

 :(  This shouldn't happen to anyone. This is not a normal or effective way to raise a child or help a troubled teen. I just think that needs to be said, loudly and clearly and often.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Tough love is a hate group.
"I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson.

Offline try another castle

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"hit the cherry pit falls, go back 3 spaces"
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2008, 06:25:42 PM »
Not sure if anyone else had experienced this, but I certainly did.

I found that once I got my head on *relatively* straight after CEDU, I picked up developmentally right where I had left off *before* I went to CEDU, so I had all of the wonderful pathology of my 16 year old nutty, out-there manic self, plus the cedu pathology on top of it in a 19-20 year old body.

It was almost like cedu was a detour through the Okefenokee swamp or something. I was identical to how I came in, just a lot muddier.

Let's just say that my 20s were uh, colorful... and my friends were really tolerant people.  Must have been my effervescent personality that kept them around.  :rasta:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: When did you
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2008, 11:57:51 PM »
Again, I'm really, really sorry about the lost data. I guess we all got a little cocky and lost sight of the fact that that could happen. Hopefully we'll do a better job from here on out.

Now, back to the original question and in the same vein. I surely wish somebody had tipped me off that that can happen to one's mind as well.  When I got out, hell well before I went in, I knew that my life was significantly altered. But I also know I was young and resilient and damned well determined to overcome. When I got out I started to find out that my life was a lot more fubar than I had expected. It really is very difficult, not just a little, to make it on one's own w/o a hs diploma or the social training you get being a part of the typical, or even nearly typical, life. I hadn't realized how completely alone I would be. That bit earlier about having been abused by the trusted family friend is a pretty good analogy for folks who have started to realize that they were, in fact, abused. But even those who don't quite get that yet will notice pretty quick that they've been seriously slandered as door after door is slammed in their faces. I think it's even worse somehow when doors are gently, 'politely' closed.... cause you know how frail ____ is and we wouldn't want to upset them and damage their 'recovery'... You hear that from every damned person you encounter and it makes it very difficult to remember or discover that you weren't really messed up to begin with or that you're strong enough to deal with whatever damage you have to deal with after the fact.

I didn't really start to understand that I was fucked in the head for a couple of years. Just like any critter will adapt and compensate for any kind of damage--broken leg means stronger arms, limited eye sight causes better hearing development, etc. And it's more complicated than that. In some ways I was damaged. So that's not a huge worry so long as the kid has some good support. And it's the little things. Don't try to elicit a sob story or confession. Ask them how the food was, ordinary things. It's just so comforting and healthy to have normal company. That might make him feel comfortable to talk to you about the dark stuff if he feels the need. You don't have to state it explicitly.

But the other thing, that which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. I never needed to be this strong (shouts to Scott W. for that turn of a phrase) but here I am. The Therapeutic Community method is neither therapeutic nor conducive to community building, but it is very very effective. Whether you ever reflect upon and disassemble how it works so as to put it into words and explain it to another or not, you still learn how to disassemble a human being or at least the fact that it can and is done all the damned time in various ways. This is useful information. The best thing you can do about that is to respect it just love and nurture him in whatever ways he most seeks from you so that he'll use his powers for good instead of evil.

Remember, everything comes back around three times.
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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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Re: When did you I wrote this for Ginger and Harold Pinter.
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2009, 02:34:42 PM »
I ran. I was jarred awake.
I stopped running and turned around. The metaphor of a dragon that was real uncoiled,
a ferocious roar, like being scorned by god,
the breath smells of sour vomit, broken dreams, and abandonment.
I roar back, because I always wake up here.
Sound feel like rubber being stretched around my body...it smells like anesthesia,
I did not wake up and I'm beside myself screaming.
Perplexed, not calm- I witness the mauling. Flesh is torn, blood is mingled with it and clumps spray the area. I can taste my demise and while I expect it to be slimy and wet on me, it instead turns to ash...

The world trade center is gone and I'm in Brooklyn because I can't get across to assist...gape really.
People flood over the Billyburg bridge and are covered in pulverized IBM.
I coped nicely with the world crumbling around me and revenge on everyones mind...I was, I admit, quite comfy with the notion of wrongness.
This path lead me back to all the things that brought me into the building where I had watched the collapse...the marathon to run from what I new was wrong...so fucking wrong. Don't try to make me doubt it, because in my case, false imprisonment and forced compliance- including four weeks without honest FOOD CLOTHES or SHELTER, to make that poisoned and 'resistant' kid that was ME, suck down that mumbo jumbo that was one deluded mans thought on another deluded man named MEL or Charles thought- pisses me off! If I hadn't gotten pissed first, I wouldn't have "woken up". And it's pretty obvious and completely oblique blaming the obvious and oblique involved parties.

I evaded this whole topic because for me it is really dramatic. I drove myself crazy with self loathing in Idaho...it set the pattern for a long time.

That's why I've not been posting and why I still think they're a bunch of dirty pig fuckers...

("We're not gonna take it! NO! We're not gonna take it...ANYMORE) Twisted Sister plays loudly in my head...It's the alarm. I feed the cats. They hate me. Life is good. It's a new year, and I've still got my rage and the support of the universe against me and for me. One way or another some components of my dream are still with me...It's gone. I think about the shrink interrupting me in 2002 while I was raging about Opium production in Afghanistan. He's right. I'm going to misinterpret him, but he surprises me with the simplicity of the sentiment I was not expecting:
"...You said the guy with the axe got paid to make you listen to him tell you about having sex with animals"?
"I told you that last week". I replied simply.
"Go on, you're check cleared"
"What about the fucking pipeline and china and iraq and blackboxes we've been talking about this morning"?
"What about it"?
"Don't be evasive, Dr. Nezzier!"
That's when I knew I was crazy.

I knew the story hadn't ended correctly but everyone in the bar was looking at me. I had just lit the wrong end of a cigarette. rancid. I pretended not to notice but just then I noticed my shoes. They were on. I wasn't wearing pants. OH MY GOD! How could this happen? How embarrassing! Again, I think to myself: THIS IS WHEN I WAKE UP...what was I just talking about, anyway... I back out of the bar after a curt bow. There is applause, but I am awake and stink and have been missing an important garment. I know my name, but for the life of me, I no longer know what I do for a living.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
     \'That I will not have, \' I said, \'nor can understand at all. What you\'ve been doing is to make me feel very very ill.\'
                         -Anthony Burgess
                      A Clockwork Orange

Offline Antigen

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Re: When did you
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2009, 03:28:05 PM »
Thank you.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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Re: When did you
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »
When did I wake up? That's funny. I was never asleep.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »