Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools

Re: HAPA

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Anne Bonney:

--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---I think this topic is absolutely relevant to the TTI in general as they seem to use a lot of the same methods that the TTI does (some form of LGATs mainly). It's pretty much the same wannabe guru, newage bullshit, wrapped up in a different package.
--- End quote ---
Well... as far as Hyde School is concerned, it's not only absolutely but directly relevant. A number of faculty and/or administrators, as well as a number of former parents and alumni, have been involved in the Mankind Project.

In fact, the former National Hyde Alumni and Parent Association (HAPA) Coordinator (along with his wife) was/is very much involved in MKP. Lee Mortenson and his wife, Carol Kirkland, have also previously provided couples and family therapy for folk in association with Hyde's FLC weekends (ya gotta pay extra), in addition to same at their Potomac, Maryland, location.

From Lee Mortenson's brief bio, emphasis added:

...While his professional career was externally rewarding, his personal life lead him to deeper introspection and on an entirely different journey. By the early 1990's, Lee had been married and divorced three times. While he had all of the standard signs of "success", he was depressed and recognized that he was a party to all of the "failures" of his marriages. His successes didn't seem to "feed" him in any meaningful way.

At first, Lee sought professional help, then was involved in a number of local and national Men's groups, attending the New Warriors weekend initiation adventure in 1992 and, in the late 1980's and early 1990's, managed several regional gatherings of men at Buffalo Gap, West Virginia. Each of these experiences helped him to understand a little more about his inner issues, and when he began a new relationship with Carol, he decided it was time to dig deeper. This lead to a decade long involvement with Doug and Naomi Moseley, two teachers who focus on relationships to others and to yourself. Over the past decade, Lee moved from an occasional workshop attendee to an interest in assisting in Intimacy Training. In 2003 he began a four-year apprenticeship with the Moseleys, working with clients and groups. In 2008, he and Carol join the Moseley training staff, assisting with some of the week-long trainings in Taos, NM, in addition to their practice in Maryland.[/list][/size]
This 'Intimacy Training' (aka 'The Moseley Method') appears to be the basis of the relationship workshops that Mortenson and Kirkland offer to HAPA members via Hyde School. It also, incidentally, appears to be connected in some way with the Mankind Project. All of the men involved in the "web ring" of partners/affiliates that are noted on Mortenson/Kirkland's website ... have been involved in some way or another with the Mankind Project.
--- End quote ---



That's exactly what I'm talking about.  Someone attends some fucking "workshop" run by some wannabe guru, then they think they've got the qualifications to open up their very own teen version of that moronic bullshit.  It's sickening.  ::puke::

Ursus:
I'm gonna try to finish up on the comments left for the Michael Scinto article which, believe it or not, are still being left on the Houston Press site...

Fwiw, the most recent (previous) post with said comments is here.

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Comments left for the above article, "Naked Men: The ManKind Project and Michael Scinto" (by Chris Vogel, Oct 4 2007, Houston Press), #s 41-60:


Vincent · 10/11/2007 2:36:54 PM
Having done the Warrior weekend in Aug. of 2005, I can say that our weekend ABSOLUTELY did not include many things mentioned in this article. The organization asked many questions in my application and they were always concerned with everyone's well being. Before any strenuous events, everyone was asked if they felt they could handle the task at hand. This is not for everyone, but what is? The weekend was very challenging for me...mentally and emotionally. However, I always felt they were there for me. I got more from the MKP than my $185/hr therapist ever offered. And I bet my therapist would not be there for me if I needed real help. My brothers would, and have without a question. I would bet my life that NO therapist has had the learning experiences had by the staff with men opening up like they did at MKP. I would never feel comfortable sharing my darkest with my therapist. That takes TRUST. The staff and members of MKP give much of their time beyond normal meetings. It is a very giving and strong group. I owe them alot. My hope is that the family that lost a child can focus its energy on a way to make a positive difference. This is not the way.Vincent · 10/11/2007 2:44:28 PM
I wanted to add the most important part to my last ramble #41: My heart goes out to the family and my prayers are with them. With this exposure, if anything needs to be changed at MKP...I bet it will.Craw F. · 10/11/2007 8:12:39 PM
All these comments from different men about their experiences on their Weekend. Then what they each believe to be the truth in this story. Was it the drugs and alcohol ? Was it the trauma he uncovered during the Weekend ? Was this young man mentally unstable ? Maybe the lack of training on the part of the Weekend's staff. No one will ever know. The real tragedy of this story is that this suicide was a well known secrete inside certain MKP circles. It was known to a lesser extent outside MKP. Inside, some questions were asked about a death rumour involving a member. Do you think the truth was told ? What does MKP say about Accountability ? I put some distance between myself and MKP because of the increasing demands on my time away from my family. It was also getting expensive. I maintain contact with a few men from my I-Group. I've learned that I can see the forest now and not just the trees. Today I believe that the tragedy (crime ?) was in their denial (cover-up ?). This seems to be today's acceptable response by others in positions of power. Just ask Scooter Libby and the former C.E.O. of Tyco. What got them in the slammer was not their actions or crimes, but their denials and cover-ups. There is a lesson to be learned here. Is MKP listening ?Rich M · 10/11/2007 8:20:53 PM
Dear anonymous, After reading the sum total wisdom of your comments, you would do well to listen to a man like Joey. Of course, listening is much harder for a real man.Dianne Hammonds · 10/14/2007 5:38:58 PM
I read with interest the article in the Houston Press regarding Michael Scinto and the Mankind Project. I have known the Scinto family for 30 years and am still very close friends with Michael's mother, Kathy. The article was very well written and having known Michael and his family, know that Michael was definitely a changed person after having attending the weekend with the Mankind Project. It is very sad indeed that Michael's life ended so abruptly and that his family will have to live with his absence for the rest of their lives. My children and the Scinto children grew up together in Katy, Texas. They swam on swim team together. Kathy Scinto was my daughter's Brownie Leader. My heart continues to feel the grief and heartache the Scintos are going through. Kudos to Chris for writing such a factual article detailing the horrible experience Michael was put through prior to his untimely death.Matt · 10/15/2007 7:24:40 AM
Chris, My heartfelt condolences go out to the family of Michael Scinto. While it is very unfortunate to read of this tragedy you have to wonder how many men’s lives MKP has helped save. Mine is one and I know I am not alone. This situation reminds me to consider a hospital setting where thousands of lives are saved or improved but that is certainly not always the case. It reminds me of cases where school districts are involved in lawsuits because they are put in a position of parent in the absence thereof. My point is that we should not throw the baby out with the bath water by implying that MKP or hospitals or schools are inherently bad because they are not perfect. Life is not perfect, and MKP is trying to save men that have gone astray in an imperfect life. We can shoot arrows at anything I suppose, but why focus on organizations that are about trying to improve the world one person at a time? MattUniversal Brother · 10/15/2007 7:35:48 PM
My Heart goes out to the family of this young man who took his own life. There have been times when I have felt quite depressed and after giving in to drugs and alcohol, was somehow glad to awaken in a painful stupor the next day with the sobering perspective knowing that if I had owned a gun, I would have blown my head off to end the previous night's round of painful self-reflections. I have been an active member of MKP over the years and am presently inactive. I have seen the MKP weekend and Integration Groups help many men in their respective communities become better brothers, fathers and husbands in the community at large. I had a positive experience during my MKP weekend and felt safe, never threatened; one man left our weekend prematurely and I felt it was under safe circumstances too. Afterwards, as I integrated the training in my community, I experienced personal issues of mistrust with some MKP brothers and had some shifting integrity issues to deal with in regard to some of my stuff, and some judgements I had towards others. After awhile, I felt I did not wish to be active with the group and was a bit diappointed by the potential of the journey we could have shared together, but did not. Again, my judgements. I feel that overall, MKP is a positive force in the world, given so many unhealthy social alternatives our culture is flooded with.Korry · 10/17/2007 8:39:13 AM
I have been a proud member of MKP since 1999, and like Chris Vogel, I am also a journalist, but aside from what I see as poor research, a clear bias, and prose so sensationalistic that it would make Geraldo Rivera wince, one thing that strikes me is the curiously puritanical panic over nudity throughout the piece in what is supposed to be an alternative weekly. I mean, the title of the piece starts off with "Naked Men" as if we all supposed to be shocked, shocked! at the very idea of such, and the word "naked" then shows up eight more times, pejoratively. This, more than anything, shows up the depth of neuroticism in American culture over the human body, across the ideological spectrum, no matter how "progressive" such ostensibly alternative New Times franchises claim to be. That Vogel can not concieve of men getting naked together without imputing sexual transgressions is proof of that. Robert Bly's "Wild Man" is still too radical a notion for a people who are afraid of going through life by actually LIVING it.Rick · 10/18/2007 6:32:49 PM
Has anyone considered the following indisputable points: 1. According to the article, MKP has initiated 4,000 men since 1991. I think it is safe to assume that these are often troubled men looking for healing. Just reviewing the comments, many men self-report having found what they were looking for. Aside from the fact that it is highly questionable to suggest that the weekend event was the cause of a relapsing drug and alcohol dependent man's decision to commit suicide, one participant's suicide as compared to the experiences of 4,000 men over a 16 year period does not suggest a problem with the weekend to me. And while Vogel suggests that the weekend constitutes therapy, what is the suicide rate among the clientele of practicing psychologists? Just because someone chooses to commit the difficult to predict act of suicide should not be an indictment on a troubled individual's therapist or the weekend event. 2. I find great irony in the fact that Vogel effectively concludes that the weekend constitutes therapy, and then he chooses to "out" participants in the weekend BY NAME. What purpose was served by outing men participating in a purportedly therapeutic weekend other than to sensationalize the article at these men's expense? The story could have been told without using anyone's name and could have been told with reference only to their professions if Vogel thought that important. If Mr. Vogel found a therapist's client book wouldn't journalistic ethics dictate that he not publish a list of client names. If one of the men Vogel chose to "out" grows despondent because of the false suggestion that he either touched some other man's penis or was similarly touched on the weekend and takes his life, is Vogel responsible for that? Does anyone doubt that the Houston Press's argument would be that the individual was troubled anyway and that the Press is not at fault. I think it was truly shameful and unprofessional to use the names of participants on the weekend. It served no purpose whatsoever. I suggest Vogel reexamine his journalistic integrity.Korry · 10/19/2007 9:45:48 PM
"In the story 'Weekend Warriors,' we misidentified the executive director of The ManKind Project Houston. The current executive director is Greg Gondron. The Houston Press regrets the error." This begs the question then of how diligently did Chris Vogel do his research.Rory Bowman · 10/20/2007 9:27:32 AM
Oh, let's not be too hard on Mr. Vogel. A lot of very successful reporters basically function as stenographers for their most convenient source. Just look at various "financial reporters" or the White House press corps.Rory Bowman · 10/20/2007 9:27:59 AM
Oh, let's not be too hard on Mr. Vogel. A lot of very successful reporters basically function as stenographers for their most convenient source. Just look at various "financial reporters" or the White House press corps.Brian Davis · 10/25/2007 9:51:22 AM
Having done the Warrior Weekend and seen most every man there benefit greatly, as I did as well, it saddens me to see this misinformed attack piece on a group thats core focus--and accomplishment--is the improvement and often salvation of men's lives. While no group is perfect, by and large the intentions of this group as a whole, as well as the intentions of the men as individuals are benevolent to say the least. That said, it isn't for everyone! Some guys just aren't up for it and that's fine. While I am sad for the Scinto family, impugning the entire organization is very misguided. It has produced thousands of initiates who go about their lives in much better ways than they would have had they not attended the weekend. With respect to suicide, I believe the suicide count among those same men would be much much higher had they not had the weekend experience. The organization would do itself well to screen potential initiates better. Having been in a college fraternity I can attest that the initation challenges we went through were FAR SAFER and actually had a healing purpose and effect, rather than mere bonding. Also, for anyone who wishes to know, we were free to leave the premises anytime we wished. Finally, despite the numerous references to nakedness in the article, there was absolutely nothing sexual about the weekend. Very sad that the effect of this article will be to discourage men from attending when the simple fact is that most would benefit. But I suppose in a day and age when recess for children is viewed as exposing them to danger we shouldn't be surprised by the above.Nonya · 10/30/2007 11:31:13 AM
Let's not forget the men who come back from this weekend and become abusive, verbally or otherwise with their friends and family. This weekend helps men get in touch with anger and men who already have anger problems come back feeling as if this is a good thing. These men are not shown the difference between "aggressiveness" and "assertiveness". They are only shown aggressiveness and how "powerfull" this can make them feel. No one has mentioned this problem here, nor has it been mentioned the number of men who come back from this weekend who either A. End up leaving their spouses or B. Their spouses end up leaving them.Nonya · 10/30/2007 11:31:19 AM
Let's not forget the men who come back from this weekend and become abusive, verbally or otherwise with their friends and family. This weekend helps men get in touch with anger and men who already have anger problems come back feeling as if this is a good thing. These men are not shown the difference between "aggressiveness" and "assertiveness". They are only shown aggressiveness and how "powerfull" this can make them feel. No one has mentioned this problem here, nor has it been mentioned the number of men who come back from this weekend who either A. End up leaving their spouses or B. Their spouses end up leaving them.Korry · 10/31/2007 10:54:17 AM
The organization, MKP, goes out of its way to stress the difference between being assertive and being aggressive, so Nonya is either 1)uninformed or 2)lying. The marriages that do fall apart were already on the rocks, and it can be stressed that are many instances in which the experience of the weekend actually improved the quality of a marriage. Furthermore, considering the extremely high divorce rate in North America, it is ridiculous to blame it all on a three-day weekend.Nonya · 11/03/2007 8:39:56 AM
OR...... I am telling the truth and those who are MKP appologist just cannot see that as they "create their own reality". When MKP person's hear something from the "outside" that is not 100% supportive of MKP they either A. Call them liers. or B. Say they don't know what they are talking about.Korry · 11/08/2007 7:35:17 PM
If Nonya's claims had any basis in reality, then scores of wives, girlfriends, children, extended relatives, and neighbors would be coming forward and validating them -- in fact, this organization has been around long enough, with enough members, that by now there would be a mountain of negative evidence and testimonies. The reality is that the majority of the women whose men do this work support the organization. But who am I to second-guess Nonya, since she obviously went through the weekend as well, and attends the men's support groups on a regular basis, not to mention all the staff trainings she has signed up for, in which throughout none of all this do we EVER make the distinction between "assertion" and "aggression," according to Nonya.lonnie sweet · 11/12/2007 5:01:07 PM
Do a web search for "Mankind Project" there already is a mountian of negative feedback about these clowns. I know first hand what goes on on these weekends and agree they should be shutdown immediately. ALL the claims against them are true while the wishy-washy positives are all just the same comment paraphrased.Leo Tolstoy · 11/17/2007 7:06:50 AM
All happy families resemble one another, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

° ° °

Anne Bonney:

--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Dianne Hammonds · 10/14/2007 5:38:58 PM
I read with interest the article in the Houston Press regarding Michael Scinto and the Mankind Project. I have known the Scinto family for 30 years and am still very close friends with Michael's mother, Kathy. The article was very well written and having known Michael and his family, know that Michael was definitely a changed person after having attending the weekend with the Mankind Project. It is very sad indeed that Michael's life ended so abruptly and that his family will have to live with his absence for the rest of their lives. My children and the Scinto children grew up together in Katy, Texas. They swam on swim team together. Kathy Scinto was my daughter's Brownie Leader. My heart continues to feel the grief and heartache the Scintos are going through. Kudos to Chris for writing such a factual article detailing the horrible experience Michael was put through prior to his untimely death.
--- End quote ---


It really is sad.  I can't believe people fall for this bullshit.  Some wannabe guru attends some workshop and BING!!!  The lightbulb goes off and he realized he can accomplish two things by starting his own brand of the bullshit.  First, he gets what he really wants.....the worship of and control over other people.  Guys like James Ray crave the adoration of a group of people.  They view themselves as some sort of a spiritual leader and/or counselor, despite having zero credentials for such and the unfortunate lemmings follow him, sometimes right over the proverbial cliff.  The clinical term for it is Malignant Narcissism.  Virgil Miller Newton had it, Dean Vause had it.  Joe Gauld appears to have had it and James Ray certainly has it.  Second, he gets to cash in on his newfound guru status and charge the lost souls for his 'leadership'.  What a fucking crock of shit.

Ursus:

--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Commenter on the Michael Scinto article" ---Dianne Hammonds · 10/14/2007 5:38:58 PM
I read with interest the article in the Houston Press regarding Michael Scinto and the Mankind Project. I have known the Scinto family for 30 years and am still very close friends with Michael's mother, Kathy. The article was very well written and having known Michael and his family, know that Michael was definitely a changed person after having attending the weekend with the Mankind Project. It is very sad indeed that Michael's life ended so abruptly and that his family will have to live with his absence for the rest of their lives. My children and the Scinto children grew up together in Katy, Texas. They swam on swim team together. Kathy Scinto was my daughter's Brownie Leader. My heart continues to feel the grief and heartache the Scintos are going through. Kudos to Chris for writing such a factual article detailing the horrible experience Michael was put through prior to his untimely death.
--- End quote ---
It really is sad.  I can't believe people fall for this bullshit.  Some wannabe guru attends some workshop and BING!!!  The lightbulb goes off and he realized he can accomplish two things by starting his own brand of the bullshit.  First, he gets what he really wants.....the worship of and control over other people.  Guys like James Ray crave the adoration of a group of people.  They view themselves as some sort of a spiritual leader and/or counselor, despite having zero credentials for such and the unfortunate lemmings follow him, sometimes right over the proverbial cliff.  The clinical term for it is Malignant Narcissism.  Virgil Miller Newton had it, Dean Vause had it.  Joe Gauld appears to have had it and James Ray certainly has it.  Second, he gets to cash in on his newfound guru status and charge the lost souls for his 'leadership'.  What a fucking crock of shit.
--- End quote ---
That particular comment hit me in the craw as well. There's another one in the next set, by a friend of the family who got a message on her answering machine from Kathy Scinto right after they found Michael...

Joe Gauld's latest LGAT focus appears to be on the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (originally known as the Fischer-Hoffman Psychic Therapy in the late 1960s, before Dr. Siegfried Fischer's widow filed a lawsuit re. the bogus attribution). Modified protocols of the HQP have already been incorporated into the boarding school as well as the public charter school curricula. Hyde School faculty, parents and alumni are also "encouraged" to attend this 8-day seminar which, by special arrangement and for their convenience, is given right at Hyde School!

Interestingly enough, the conservative philanthropy the William H. Donner Foundation has been a benefactor to both the Hyde Schools and to the Hoffman Quadrinity Process, the latter indirectly by providing major funding for a "research study" exploring the alleged benefits of undergoing this LGAT and via its Canadian arm, the Donner Canadian Foundation. Journalist Krishna Rau has described DCF as "the new sugar daddy for the right.''

Fwiw, Hoffman Institute CEO Charles "Raz" Ingrasci has had a lifetime career of key executive and training positions in "self-improvement seminar companies," which include EST and Lifespring.

Anne Bonney:

--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---That particular comment hit me in the craw as well. There's another one in the next set, by a friend of the family who got a message on her answering machine from Kathy Scinto right after they found Michael...
--- End quote ---

Where's that?


--- Quote ---Joe Gauld's latest LGAT focus appears to be on the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (originally known as the Fischer-Hoffman Psychic Therapy in the late 1960s, before Dr. Siegfried Fischer's widow filed a lawsuit re. the bogus attribution). Modified protocols of the HQP have already been incorporated into the boarding school as well as the public charter school curricula. Hyde School faculty, parents and alumni are also "encouraged" to attend this 8-day seminar which, by special arrangement and for their convenience, is given right at Hyde School!

Interestingly enough, the conservative philanthropy the William H. Donner Foundation has been a benefactor to both the Hyde Schools and to the Hoffman Quadrinity Process, the latter indirectly by providing major funding for a "research study" exploring the alleged benefits of undergoing this LGAT and via its Canadian arm, the Donner Canadian Foundation. Journalist Krishna Rau has described DCF as "the new sugar daddy for the right.''

Fwiw, Hoffman Institute CEO Charles "Raz" Ingrasci has had a lifetime career of key executive and training positions in "self-improvement seminar companies," which include EST and Lifespring.
--- End quote ---


 ::puke::

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