Author Topic: KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update  (Read 4619 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 11:22:55 PM »
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.
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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 11:49:18 PM »
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.


Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deprogrammed

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Your time
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2007, 12:01:15 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.

Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.



Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Your time
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2007, 12:12:24 AM »
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.

I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Your time
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2007, 12:16:35 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.


ummm...ok...lol
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Your time
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2007, 01:15:17 AM »
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.

Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.


Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP


I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.

But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.

I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.

But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.

I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.
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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2007, 01:38:54 AM »
And one more thing. I suppose my tendency to minimize the KHK experience stems from my frustration at the lack of former KHK people posting here and elsewhere. One theory for this keeps coming back to me. Perhaps the vocal unhappy Straightlings are legion and we are not because of the physical torture. And because it did occur more frequently in Straight, this is the reason why Fornits hears from many more of them than us. It's the only plausible reason I've ever been able to come up with, because, again, KHK was identical in every other way. After my final escape, I met former inmates who were just as unhappy and disgusted with the experience as I was. And that was only from my time, my group. But where are they now? I met only one in 2006, and he expressed the same frustration.
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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2007, 01:40:42 AM »
Guest wrote:
Deprogrammed wrote:
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.

I refuse to minimize the damage of frosted flakes.


ummm...ok...lol


yeah, what about roofintar n' nails? THAT's damage!  :rofl: earth is calling, best get on the horn  :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2007, 07:50:19 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
yeah, what about roofintar n' nails? THAT's damage!  :rofl: earth is calling, best get on the horn  :rofl:

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
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Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Your time
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2007, 12:17:16 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.

Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.


Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP

I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.

But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.

I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.

But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.

I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.


Well, hello again Richard.
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Your time
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2007, 12:48:31 AM »
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.

Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.


Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP

I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.

But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.

I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.

But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.

I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.

Well, hello again Richard.
-DP


Yes. Fornits is a cult. Why else would I keep coming back? But beautiful job on 11/30!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: Your time
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2007, 02:01:51 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Razor Totin' Jim""
Interesting...and yes, I think that's most likely how it actually went. What you just described bears a striking similarity to the sort of thing that went on in Straight. Well said.

Straight and KHK were identical in my time, only an administrative decision was made to scale down the physical abuse. The physical violence against teens in Milford was common knowledge when I was in Hebron, KY. The staff and head psycholgist used it as a weapon against noncompliance, a threat: "Motivate or go to Straight, where they'll bloody your faces."

Otherwise, as far as I can tell, there are no differences between the KHK and Straight experience. Identical methods of coercive persuasion in every way. And there was some physical abuse in my time, just not of the large-scale lawsuit variety that the Sembler-mills practiced over the years.


Your time in Khk must have been better than mine , then.
I saw arms broken, parents lied to about how, sexual abuse happened etc.....
Sounds the same to me as a Sembler Mill.
I refuse to minimize the damage of khk.
-DP

I did not say that I saw no physical abuse. But your point is well taken. I've read so much about the abuse in Straight, however, and am certain that many people there had it much worse than in Hebron. But you are right. Any amount of physical violence is too much in these places, and none of it should be condoned or minimized. It's hard for me to even imagine how much worse my experience would have been if intense physical abuse had been added to the routine, if I had been subjected to actual physical pain for refusing to motivate. The thought haunts me immensely.

But remember that an administrative decision was made somewhere along the line. Somebody must have elected to scale down the violence, for it was significantly less visible than in Straight. In my opinion, this makes them just as guilty--kinder, gentler officials of mind control.

I also believe that in KHK the abuse came and went. In 1983, I remember hearing about how insane things used to be, how groups of newcomers would charge the doors en masse and acutally fight--a cozy thought in my head then--and how pile-ons and harsh force were used much more frequently. Perhaps I and my fellow prisoners were not doing our duty.

But I saw blood, daily pile-ons. I experienced a good dose of solitary confinement myself. I watched a staff member repeatedly slam a newcomer against a wall in the intake room. I saw a kid forced to sit in his own urine. I saw another kid slam his broken arm, in a cast, on one of the church pews, over and over again, as staff continued to egg him on, tears pouring down his face. I watched them throw us the last of the Southern Frontier cuisine unto the grimy floors--fish cakes, usually--as a competition to see who could get to it first. Who was hungry enough to eat off the floor. And much, much more.

I'm not diminishing any of this. But the things you and I saw and experienced are bad enough, and you and I both know that things were much, much worse in Straight. And that says a lot, for the degree of abuse in KHK was refined and overwhelming. It's inconceivable for the average person to understand how much worse it could get. And it did. In Milford and many other places.

Well, hello again Richard.
-DP

Yes. Fornits is a cult. Why else would I keep coming back? But beautiful job on 11/30!



I definitely don't feel that it is a cult but ok I get the joke.
-DP
and thanks about 11/30 I try hard, suffered frost bite on my right big toe and am still repairing tissue damage on it as we speak.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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KHK Protest November 30th, 2007- Update
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2007, 10:38:46 AM »
Quote
A voice from nowhere     
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:38 am    Post subject:
And one more thing. I suppose my tendency to minimize the KHK experience stems from my frustration at the lack of former KHK people posting here and elsewhere. One theory for this keeps coming back to me. Perhaps the vocal unhappy Straightlings are legion and we are not because of the physical torture. And because it did occur more frequently in Straight, this is the reason why Fornits hears from many more of them than us. It's the only plausible reason I've ever been able to come up with, because, again, KHK was identical in every other way. After my final escape, I met former inmates who were just as unhappy and disgusted with the experience as I was. And that was only from my time, my group. But where are they now? I met only one in 2006, and he expressed the same frustration.


I agree completely.  There was definitely an element of abuse in KHK, but it was noting compared to what I have read about straight.  Also, the abuse was not as outright or physical.  When I was there, restraints happened almost daily.  Kids sat in time out rooms for hours and hours on end, without being allowed to use the restroom.  I didn't see staff bang anyones head against a wall though, no one getting punched in the face.  So I think that I shouldn't say anything, because, hey, it could have been so much worse.  Also, how do you explain the psychological damage that is done?  Just describing the program doesn't do it, that just gets you crazy looks.  So, I agree with you, that is why not as many KHK people post.  I have talked to several graduates who are struggling with the same issues as myself.  But in the end, we sum it up as something that was really shitty, but what could we do about it?  The conversation usually ends with, "that was a long time ago, it's probably better to move one from it"  So they bury those memories, and march on with their lives.  I wonder if they have it right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »