level of education attained by program parents and...

[Anonymous]

Any of you parents artists, or blue collar workers? Own a bar or anything?

Yes,why?

Are you describing yourself? Are you an artist?

I am curious about the sort of lifestyle and environment program parents habituate. I wonder if there is a continuity  of profession an what implications that has on the program parents psychological make-up.

I'm not explaining this well cause i was up all night. But that's basically it

I fucking HATE people who stay up all night only to attempt to conduct some STUPID survey about program parents. You should kill yourself.

[Anonymous]

Any of you parents artists, or blue collar workers? Own a bar or anything?

Yes,why?

Are you describing yourself? Are you an artist?

I am curious about the sort of lifestyle and environment program parents habituate. I wonder if there is a continuity  of profession an what implications that has on the program parents psychological make-up.

I'm not explaining this well cause i was up all night. But that's basically it

I was talking about my parents. I am from a blue collar family.  My mom is assistant manager at a national restaurant chain and my dad is a truck driver.

[Anonymous]

I forgot to mention that in about a quarter of the cases at hidden lake, the parents were divorced, and one of the parents had serious drug or alchohol issues and/or had a debilitating disease and/or was just selfish and manipulative, wishing to get the kid out of the house only to see them pop up again for a short while as a good kid, then go off to college.

there were also a few cases where one of the biological parents were one of the parents died as a result of drug abuse, crack and alchohol are common culprits; while the other parent remained straight and affluent.

although the suburban middle class and upper class make up a large part of hidden lake's clientele, there are other sectors of society present. I knew a girl who's father was a well-known but not famous music producer. there was another girl who's dad operated grow houses, and her divorced mother sent her away against his will. there were doctors, teachers, and lawyers among parents too. one kid's mother was a wiccan priestess. i knew another who's dad owned a small tobacco farm and processing plant.

there is alot of variety in parents in regards to education, occupation and lifestyle. the only common factors (to me at least) seem to be some form of family history of either abuse, death, disease, or serious drug abuse, along with parents who would rather spend more time at work and going out than with their kids.

[Anonymous]

Single parent, handicapped sibling, small business owner (other parent killed in a car accident) kid with serious criminal charges, program offered mental health treatment and family counselling.

Parent no longer in program, kid still in program (court ordered)

[Anonymous]

from what I saw, parents were shellshocked but caring. (go ahead and fire away)...

There were doctors, wealthy stock brokers, a Mormon, a high tech accountant, some single parents who had lost their spouses to cancer. A lot of older parents (we were the youngest) who adopted kids later and a handful of entertainer's kids who I won't name to respect their kids' privacy. The common denominator seemed to be wealth and being able to afford the cost of this industry. I did talk to most and like us, the sheer fear was palpable. I do believe (and again, fire away) those parents in that TBS loved their kids and were desperate in trying to help them. I am not bitter at those parents there as much as I am towards the ed cons and this whole shyster industry.

from a parent of daughter who ran from program after four months and I STRONGLY support her decision.

Thank you for all of your insight b/c without it, Not sure what would of happened when she ran.

[Oz girl]

After now having spoken to many kids and parents, I am actually surprised at the diversity. While more have been financially comfortable than not there have been plenty who are not especially well off. This indicates to me that obviously while there are many kids who do go due to uncaring or even abusive homes  there are also many whose families are willing to sacrifice a lot. I can only assume this means they really do see it as putting the kid first.

I have also been surprised at the amount of kids who have said their parents have been academics of some kind. One thing this industry has opened my eyes to is my own snobbery. I had previously imagined academics or more educated non "nuovo riche" types would be too concerned with the lack of quality education in this system to send their kids.

[Anonymous]

While most of the families are fairly affluent, this type of expense is seldom considered small.  Also, I was more concerned about the level of academics than most parents, but since my son was blowing off his academics at home, what difference did it make?  He had been kicked out of a top school for behavior and was not attending much school at the time he went to program.  

I saw a number of divorced parents and a huge number of adopted kids. Affluence level of the parents ranged from owner of a professional sports team (one of wealthiest people in country) to people who sold or mortgaged homes to be able to afford the program.
I did not see one family that I would consider uncaring or who just wanted to "warehouse" their kid.  Whether or not the choice of program might have been wrong, ALL of these families cared deeply.

[Oz girl]

I did not see one family that I would consider uncaring or who just wanted to "warehouse" their kid.  Whether or not the choice of program might have been wrong, ALL of these families cared deeply.

 I am sure you didn't. However it stands to reason that those parents who were either a little on the lazy or hysterical side or giving into the demands of a stepparent who never signed on for an obnoxious kid are not likely to admit it to a room full of other parents. If brat camp and books like What it takes to pull me through are any kind of case study there is some evidence that some kids are being sent for being a bit of a handful but not for exhibiting any truly life threatening problems. Many kids also claim that they were offensive to their families sensibilities but not addicted to anything or a danger to others or themselves. This indicates to me that there are 2 sides to every story but that no program will listen to the kid's side fully because it would then be out of business.
It also does not help that programs are a logical extension of
western consumer culture. In a world where kids and adults alike are as a matter of course used to being able to throw money at a problem to make it go away it is in some ways unsurprising that somebody came upon this idea. It stands to reason that if the natural way of coping with things is to buy a fix and it feels like you cant "fix" your kid you can call someone who will. Randal Hinton's Pizza delivery analogy was alarmingly apt

[AuntieEm2]

Oz girl wrote:

This indicates to me that there are 2 sides to every story but that no program will listen to the kid's side fully because it would then be out of business.

As soon as the label "troubled teen" is slapped on a child, the child's credibility is diminished or wiped out, and the parents' credibility is increased. I was astonished to see how quickly and effectively this worked in my own family. A normal teenager with good reason to be angry with her father and the world (my niece) got labeled as being "not normal" and now some in the family talk about how she was always an emotionally unbalanced child, though they can never cite any examples for me of abnormal behavior they themselves witnessed. They repeat the story told by her parents about times when she raged at them, or embarassed them in public (gawdfabid!).

This credibility gap would perhaps be less of a problem if we had a system in which the child had a process for legal appeal. For example, if you file to have someone declared mentally disabled and therefore unfit to make decision for themselves, the court is required to appoint legal counsel to represent the person, and an independent representative of the court (like a nurse or social worker) is required to meet with the person and make an independent determination/report for the court as to his or her mental capacity. The burden of proof is high. If that type of process were required for programs, I believe far more children would escape being sent to programs.

Auntie Em

[TheWho]

Oz girl wrote:

This indicates to me that there are 2 sides to every story but that no program will listen to the kid's side fully because it would then be out of business.

As soon as the label "troubled teen" is slapped on a child, the child's credibility is diminished or wiped out, and the parents' credibility is increased. I was astonished to see how quickly and effectively this worked in my own family. A normal teenager with good reason to be angry with her father and the world (my niece) got labeled as being "not normal" and now some in the family talk about how she was always an emotionally unbalanced child, though they can never cite any examples for me of abnormal behavior they themselves witnessed. They repeat the story told by her parents about times when she raged at them, or embarassed them in public (gawdfabid!).

This credibility gap would perhaps be less of a problem if we had a system in which the child had a process for legal appeal. For example, if you file to have someone declared mentally disabled and therefore unfit to make decision for themselves, the court is required to appoint legal counsel to represent the person, and an independent representative of the court (like a nurse or social worker) is required to meet with the person and make an independent determination/report for the court as to his or her mental capacity. The burden of proof is high. If that type of process were required for programs, I believe far more children would escape being sent to programs.

Auntie Em

That’s a good suggestion.  My daughters' TBS required testing to be done by an independent psychologist prior to her being accepted.  She was also tested while she attended SUWS but I don’t remember the name of the test.  I have a family member who is a child psychologist and he handled the communication with the test results from SUWS and Mcleans where she was evaluated prior to acceptance.

I think if there was a standard evaluation form, which had the approval of  the courts or child advocacy programs, which was mandatory prior to attending a TBS this would help prevent kids who didn’t need to go from going.  Maybe as a minimum the children needs to be seen by a therapist who is trained in this area and the therapist makes the recommendation.



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[Anonymous]

Really. ASR did not do that with any of the kids in What it takes to pull me through (the book you recommended as a positive example of TBS) One of the kids they took was according to the author dangerously underweight and drug addicted but they sent her on a wilderness course which marcus described as limiting food intake and involving strenuous exercise. I wonder what kind of doctor or mental health professional would advise such a program was the right thing for that kid?

Alot of other kids that have posted here have also reflected that no independent evaluation was done and that an ed con recommended ASR. While you have said that many of these kids are just bitter you also sung the  praises of Dave marcus

Oz girl

[Anonymous]

I have a family member who is a child psychologist and he handled the communication with the test results from SUWS and Mcleans where she was evaluated prior to acceptance.

Sounds kinda like the whole family facilitated her being shipped off..

[Che Gookin]

The whole family with the exception of the daughter I'm sure.

[Anonymous]

Where is this kids MOM?  TheWHO never mentions her.  Or is TheWHO actually her MOM?
 ::seg::

[TheWho]

Really. ASR did not do that with any of the kids in What it takes to pull me through (the book you recommended as a positive example of TBS) One of the kids they took was according to the author dangerously underweight and drug addicted but they sent her on a wilderness course which marcus described as limiting food intake and involving strenuous exercise. I wonder what kind of doctor or mental health professional would advise such a program was the right thing for that kid?

Alot of other kids that have posted here have also reflected that no independent evaluation was done and that an ed con recommended ASR. While you have said that many of these kids are just bitter you also sung the  praises of Dave marcus

Oz girl

I don’t believe I said the book was all positive.  It was an honest independent account of what goes on inside a program.  Dave Marcus is a Pulitzer prize winning author who spent a year and a half inside a program and wrote a book about what he saw.  There was also a study done at ASR by a university student going working towards her doctorate.  She presented her results in a paper.
 
This shows that these programs are not shrouded in secrecy and their methods and doors are open to whoever is interested.  There are many people who post here on fornits who ask for this transparency yet when it is provided no one references it… I haven’t seen the book show up as one of the list of books for recommended reading by fornits.  You would think it would be one of the top books since it deals specifically with the goings on inside a program….. since the book was written the school continues to evolve and has softened some of its harder edges mostly due to feedback from parents…ASR has since moved towards a more clinical approach in its methods……

Each year that passes the schools improve, evolve and move forward but fornits seems to still rely on stories from 30 years ago to describe the workings of programs.



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