I'm headed off to get my daughter from sage walk

[TheWho]

Show of hands, who else is just scrolling past his bullshit at this point?

I am, for one.... this is all opinion and the argument wont result in any type of consensus.  But I think it was good for the readers to see some of the perspectives of the posters here and it shows how everyone’s self esteem is effected differently.



...

[Anonymous]

Show of hands, who else is just scrolling past his bullshit at this point?

 World class cellists are in their "comfort zone" when they give a televised recital, Why would they have "their self esteem raised" more by cooking a gourmet meal at 5 star Michelin restaurant? Achieving your goals is rewarding in a way that doing something that you are not interested in, but is outside your comfort zone, isn’t


On the other hand, being abducted and kept prisoner on the basis that you are not worthy of life outside an institution, prima facie, is something that will, undoubtedly, destroy your self esteem (and yes, you can have an institution outdoors….Many prisons, world wide are , tent cities)

And it’s interesting he says that conditions like depression mean you can’t have your “self esteem raised.â€

[TheWho]

Show of hands, who else is just scrolling past his bullshit at this point?

 World class cellists are in their "comfort zone" when they give a televised recital, Why would they have "their self esteem raised" more by cooking a gourmet meal at 5 star Michelin restaurant? Achieving your goals is rewarding in a way that doing something that you are not interested in, but is outside your comfort zone, isn’t


On the other hand, being abducted and kept prisoner on the basis that you are not worthy of life outside an institution, prima facie, is something that will, undoubtedly, destroy your self esteem (and yes, you can have an institution outdoors….Many prisons, world wide are , tent cities)

And it’s interesting he says that conditions like depression mean you can’t have your “self esteem raised.â€

[Anonymous]

I am not a troll. I just got back tonight and it WAS wonderful.  She was NOT Tortured in any way.  Her self esteem has improved Significantly.  I am not into consumerism at all.  I buy everything I can at thrift stores and reuse and recycle as much as I can.   I am not a bad parent.  Sage Walk was a place of significant integrety.  I met one other family and their child was doing excellent also.

Of course we understand the honeymoon part.  We've all worked hard to improve every aspect of our family.  I couldn't do this at home because if you had kids you'd understand.  My child wasn't "bad"  She has friends (unlike you hahahah), It's just a tough world and is certainly better off to handle it now.  She LOVED it there.  I'd be happy to answer any specific questions, but don't give me the lines of logic.  Your logic is twisted, therefor I don't want to hear it.

Thanks Who for standing up for me.  I just wanted to put others minds at ease if they were thinking about the program or had a kid there.  This site certainly scared me a little.  I got over it.  I also didn't have her kidnapped and she wasn't tortured.  You just like that stuff don't you.

Sunshine daydream
(I just keep adding a number because I can't find the e-mail that is supposed to activate my account)

[Covergaard]

I have two. I understand the dangers.

Some kids are not content with the number of bagsparties and they get access to alcohol from older buddies and then they party in a park outside my home, so I have off-course notified the night owls that there are a new unofficial party place, so they can monitor the activities from distance.

I will join the night owls myself once my oldest daughter has been confirmed in church and have been blessed to drink alcohol by God according with our traditions and culture. There will always be a period of dialogue and setting up boundaries in this difficult time until they can buy all the alcohol they wish to, once they have reached the age of 16 and can apply for their alcohol license down at the city hall.

I hope that you understand that the work is ahead of you and not behind you. It has just started and if I have to find a single good thing about what you did, it is the fact that you state that you brought her to the program on your own. That can the little factor that could result in one of the few success-stories over time.

[Anonymous]

I am not a troll. I just got back tonight and it WAS wonderful.  She was NOT Tortured in any way.  Her self esteem has improved Significantly.  I am not into consumerism at all.  I buy everything I can at thrift stores and reuse and recycle as much as I can.   I am not a bad parent.  Sage Walk was a place of significant integrety.  I met one other family and their child was doing excellent also.

Of course we understand the honeymoon part.  We've all worked hard to improve every aspect of our family.  I couldn't do this at home because if you had kids you'd understand.  My child wasn't "bad"  She has friends (unlike you hahahah), It's just a tough world and is certainly better off to handle it now.  She LOVED it there.  I'd be happy to answer any specific questions, but don't give me the lines of logic.  Your logic is twisted, therefor I don't want to hear it.

Thanks Who for standing up for me.  I just wanted to put others minds at ease if they were thinking about the program or had a kid there.  This site certainly scared me a little.  I got over it.  I also didn't have her kidnapped and she wasn't tortured.  You just like that stuff don't you.

Sunshine daydream
(I just keep adding a number because I can't find the e-mail that is supposed to activate my account)

I think parents can spell at a second grade level, put across thoughts in a fashion that isn’t completely convoluted, and don't mock teen girls for not having friends   "She has friends (unlike you hahahah)"

Like I said, a troll

[Anonymous]

I have a few genuine questions assuming that this is not a troll post.

If it was not for misbehavior why did you send your daughter to Sagewalk?

Were you aware that Sagewalk at one stage employed the Henry family from Northstar (the program that killed Aaron Bacon) If so did this have any effect on your decision?  

How did you come across sagewalk?

[TheWho]

I am not a troll. I just got back tonight and it WAS wonderful.  She was NOT Tortured in any way.  Her self esteem has improved Significantly.  I am not into consumerism at all.  I buy everything I can at thrift stores and reuse and recycle as much as I can.   I am not a bad parent.  Sage Walk was a place of significant integrety.  I met one other family and their child was doing excellent also.

Of course we understand the honeymoon part.  We've all worked hard to improve every aspect of our family.  I couldn't do this at home because if you had kids you'd understand.  My child wasn't "bad"  She has friends (unlike you hahahah), It's just a tough world and is certainly better off to handle it now.  She LOVED it there.  I'd be happy to answer any specific questions, but don't give me the lines of logic.  Your logic is twisted, therefor I don't want to hear it.

Thanks Who for standing up for me.  I just wanted to put others minds at ease if they were thinking about the program or had a kid there.  This site certainly scared me a little.  I got over it.  I also didn't have her kidnapped and she wasn't tortured.  You just like that stuff don't you.

Sunshine daydream
(I just keep adding a number because I can't find the e-mail that is supposed to activate my account)

Happy to hear you all are home again.   I tell parents not to get swayed by all the definitions used here, they are mostly kids who didnt do well in a program and/or angry at their parents.

Kidnapping, torture, abuse, incarceration, imprisonment etc.

The definitions have all been watered down to the point where they don’t really mean much anymore here.  I have traveled extensively throughout Eastern Europe and South Central Asia and have seen children being abused and hearing accounts of torture that would make you sick.  Children (little girls and boys) who are handicapped, disfigured or have subpar IQ’s are locked in asylums with adults to fend for themselves from age 5 and up when they are forced to leave the Baby houses because no one wanted to adopt them.  A large percentage of these children fail to thrive due to lack of social contact or malnutrition because the adults take the food from them for themselves and they are not strong enough to fight back.

To experience all this and then to listen to people here on fornits write how they consider not having access to a phone 24/7 or no salt on the table during meal time as abusive and living in a boarding school setting as being imprisoned or incarcerated, defining having to clean their rooms and common areas as torture really does an injustice to those who truly are in need of rescue.

Someday some poor child is going to actually be abused in one of these places, call the police and no one will believe them because of the stories that are told here on fornits.



...

[Anonymous]

Someday some poor child is going to actually be abused in one of these places, call the police and no one will believe them because of the stories that are told here on fornits.
..

Fornits is not needed for that.

It happened before Fornits existed, it happens every weeks and unfortunately it will continue to happen without heavy federal regulation of the industry.

[Anonymous]

I have traveled extensively throughout Eastern Europe

Bullshit. You haven't been out of North America, SunshineDaydream is really obviously another one of your imaginary friends (you *can't* mask your writing style, seriously- you're just too insane to imitate a normal person), and Sagewalk is a torture pit that's failing so miserably you feel it necessary to post crap on Fornits to try to stem the damage (like putting a band-aid on a massive concrete dam crack).

As for Eastern Europe, that idea is exceptionally easy to destroy: Remember when WWASPS thought they could keep a shithole open in the Czech Republic? The Czechs closed the fucking place down because WWASPS reminded them so strongly of Soviet torture camps. So no, it's not accepted there, despite how badly you want child torture to be accepted everywhere.

[Anonymous]

According to TheWho, the following is "just stories" and/or not abuse.

J
He had two major depressions by the time he was 14; he was a ?different? and musically gifted child who was bullied. As a defense, he started dressing like a Goth and hanging out with Goths?he had a lot of suicidal ideation. The public high school would not keep him because of his suicidal talk and when he got to the ER, he denied suicidal ideation. It was a mess and I wanted him supervised 24/7 BUT not in a hospital short term because he had long-term problems that he needed time to address. Someone in the posts above suggested a ?regular? boarding school?none would have taken a Goth who talked about the desirability of dying ASAP. He only actually made one weak suicidal gesture, but I take this risk VERY seriously in a teen with major depression.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60

There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term)

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?

2) Describe this Escorting more please?

3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?


A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans

Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.

I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30

I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at [email protected] i bet i can help you get her out of there


I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60

I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.

HINT: YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP

[TheWho]

I have traveled extensively throughout Eastern Europe

Bullshit. You haven't been out of North America, SunshineDaydream is really obviously another one of your imaginary friends (you *can't* mask your writing style, seriously- you're just too insane to imitate a normal person), and Sagewalk is a torture pit that's failing so miserably you feel it necessary to post crap on Fornits to try to stem the damage (like putting a band-aid on a massive concrete dam crack).

As for Eastern Europe, that idea is exceptionally easy to destroy: Remember when WWASPS thought they could keep a shithole open in the Czech Republic? The Czechs closed the fucking place down because WWASPS reminded them so strongly of Soviet torture camps. So no, it's not accepted there, despite how badly you want child torture to be accepted everywhere.

Your wrong as psy, he has been there also, the kids are locked up if they are crippled or just turned out into the streets.  People treat them worse then dogs if they dont have a family.

[TheWho]

HINT: YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP

Yes we can, because we already did!! :lol:

[Anonymous]

First, I don't know who you think i am and I certainly am not going to tell you, but i don't know anyone here.  Thankfully.

Second, I wouldn't have put the spelling at a 2nd grade level.  Have you been in a school lately?  I just had to respond, though I had just spent 18 hours traveling home.  5 hours alone at O'Hare, just to take a bus home.  I still have no luggage.  I'll tell you though, her and I navigated the fatigue, disappointment of not having a home coming and basically an airport in a whole new way.  

Third,  Sage Walk, like anything else, has evolved and become better.  Much better.  NONE of the things you have been referring me to have happened to my daughter or her group.

Sorry about the friend thing, but why are you so dense to think that everyone is the same and your view of things is the right one?  When she spends 5 weeks practicing this fire, and finally gets it?  It's not about the fire any more.  Have you been in a school lately?  Those kids do nothing but pick on each other.  

This isn't even worth my time right now.

[Anonymous]

No, Who, you aren't worth our time.

Go on, keep posting. Maybe someone will eventually believe this is real if you just keep trying hard enough!