lon woodberrry- this is the enemy. And they're striking back

[Botched Programming]

I think we need to focus on all of them and not try to justify any of them as being acceptable, but lets be smart about it and put our countries resources [/color]to good use.

Please define resources...

[Anonymous]

Who do you work for  :question:  :question:  :question:

I am APALLED by that ... you have no decency  :exclaim:

NO CHILD keels over and dies in public school or anywhere  :exclaim: We as a society has NOTHING to do with the discussion ... the question is what are YOU doing to prevent kids from dying ... and the answer is NOTHING  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim: or otherwise you would have cared even a little bit.

I am VERY glad I found this site ... I cannot believe the lack of couth and caring you display ... I was going to enroll my son in Wilderness Therapy before someone gave me this link (THANK YOU SEAN TURTLEDOVE) ... but after reading what YOU wrote I definitely will not  :exclaim:

[TheWho]

I think we need to focus on all of them and not try to justify any of them as being acceptable, but lets be smart about it and put our countries resources [/color]to good use.

Please define resources...

I see resources as being, better trained people, hiring more people, better teacher child ratios, better child restraints in cars, faster reaction times for EMT's, more training for staff working with kids in wilderness.  More EMT training.

[Botched Programming]

I see resources as being, better trained people, hiring more people, better teacher child ratios, better child restraints in cars, faster reaction times for EMT's, more training for staff working with kids in wilderness. [/color] More EMT training.

And here again we have Pro-Program support..... And why throw all that other stuff in.... Just say what you mean..... Support for the Industry.[/color][/b][/i]

[Ursus]

Wherever someone dies unexpectedly, and where said death could easily have been prevented, one assesses the issue of accountability.

When a kid is enrolled in a wilderness program, and preventable harm and/or even death occurs to this child, one tends to hold -- barring unforeseen "acts of God" -- the operators of said wilderness program accountable.

Obfuscation of that fact, by citing deaths elsewhere that have nothing whatsoever to do with that fact and are hence irrelevant, is simply that:  OBFUSCATION.  Stick to the issue at hand if you want to argue the point.

[Anonymous]

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:

[Anonymous]

I see resources as being, better trained people, hiring more people, better teacher child ratios, better child restraints in cars, faster reaction times for EMT's, more training for staff working with kids in wilderness. More EMT training.

Most of these programs have the resources (the money to hire qualified and trained professionals) they just choose not to do so.  They chose to line their pockets with it instead of using it to help the kids.  Look at the latest ad for Richey's program, the ad for employment.  (It is posted in another thread).  It talks about being located in a low income setting.  I interpret that to mean, we ain't gonna pay you much to work for us....but then the cost of living isn't much, so come on down.  You don't have to have a high school diploma, all that is required is a GED.  

Don't ge me wrong, I am not knocking people who have only a GED or who are low income individuals.  The point I am trying to make is most of the people who prosper off of this industry have the resources, the tuition is high, they just don't use it for what it should be used for.  The industry is profit driven.  They are going to cut all costs, to make a "big" buck.

[TheWho]

I see resources as being, better trained people, hiring more people, better teacher child ratios, better child restraints in cars, faster reaction times for EMT's, more training for staff working with kids in wilderness. More EMT training.

Most of these programs have the resources (the money to hire qualified and trained professionals) they just choose not to do so.  They chose to line their pockets with it instead of using it to help the kids.  Look at the latest ad for Richey's program, the ad for employment.  (It is posted in another thread).  It talks about being located in a low income setting.  I interpret that to mean, we ain't gonna pay you much to work for us....but then the cost of living isn't much, so come on down.  You don't have to have a high school diploma, all that is required is a GED.  

Don't ge me wrong, I am not knocking people who have only a GED or who are low income individuals.  The point I am trying to make is most of the people who prosper off of this industry have the resources, the tuition is high, they just don't use it for what it should be used for.  The industry is profit driven.  They are going to cut all costs, to make a "big" buck.

Thats why it is a good idea for the parents to visit the schools and get to know who is going to be looking after their child and what training they have.

[Anonymous]

WHY ... so you can use HIGH PRESSURE SALES TACTICS PHYSICALLY :question:  :question:  :question:

[Che Gookin]

I see resources as being, better trained people, hiring more people, better teacher child ratios, better child restraints in cars, faster reaction times for EMT's, more training for staff working with kids in wilderness. More EMT training.

Most of these programs have the resources (the money to hire qualified and trained professionals) they just choose not to do so.  They chose to line their pockets with it instead of using it to help the kids.  Look at the latest ad for Richey's program, the ad for employment.  (It is posted in another thread).  It talks about being located in a low income setting.  I interpret that to mean, we ain't gonna pay you much to work for us....but then the cost of living isn't much, so come on down.  You don't have to have a high school diploma, all that is required is a GED.  

Don't ge me wrong, I am not knocking people who have only a GED or who are low income individuals.  The point I am trying to make is most of the people who prosper off of this industry have the resources, the tuition is high, they just don't use it for what it should be used for.  The industry is profit driven.  They are going to cut all costs, to make a "big" buck.

You'd be surprised at the overhead with the cost of liability insurance. Even with that I suspect they could afford to hire competent licensed staff. But who gives a shit?

No kid should be in a program whether it be good or bad. Due process is shat all over regardless of the quality of the program.

[TheWho]

WHY ... so you can use HIGH PRESSURE SALES TACTICS PHYSICALLY :question:  :question:  :question:

No, so the parents can get a feel for what type of school it is, talk to some of the staff and students, have lunch with a group if possible.  Same as choosing any other school your child would attend.  A TBS should be treated no differently, in fact the parents should be more picky because their child will be receiving more services than a normal high school.

[Botched Programming]

WHY ... so you can use HIGH PRESSURE SALES TACTICS PHYSICALLY :question:  :question:  :question:

No, so the parents can get a feel for what type of school it is, talk to some of the staff and students, have lunch with a group if possible.  Same as choosing any other school your child would attend.  A TBS should be treated no differently, in fact the parents should be more picky because their child will be receiving more services than a normal high school.

Come on Who..... Log the hell in because we all know it's you posting this Pro-Program propaganda!!!

[Deborah]

Those suggestions are insufficient.
Parents need to ask very pointed questions.

Ask to see credentials then confirm they are legitimate.
Check with the state licensing agency to confirm that they are licensed and monitored. Ask if any complaints have been filed or if they have been cited for violations of regulations.
Any accidents, physical/sexual assaults, deaths?
Question blanket policies such as severing contact between parent and child for any length of time- totally unnecessary with ethical, evidence-based therapy.
Ask for a copy of the contract, policies, and parent manual. Have them reviewed by an attorney and psychologists.
Talk to parents on Fornits and other sites about their actual experience.
Talk to survivors about the same.
Research Synanon, est/Lifespring, CEDU method and determine if you are willing to allow your child to be exposed to 'experimental' treatment.
Do not take what's stated on the website or what they tell you at face value. For your child's sake, one must do due diligence.
That's for starters.

[Oz girl]

When you mention that 2 kids died in SUWS or when others mention that a child died in another program I am curious as to what type of message you are trying to send?  Is this to bait someone into saying "Oh, 2 kids dying isnt that bad?"  Is it to say SUWS is safe because there have been only 2?  or is it bad because 2 kids is higher than normal?

There are probably 10 times that many that die in church each year... or consider the number of kids that die in car accidents.. or commit suicide in their homes or abused and killed at school or die of drug overdoses.


...

I dont know what faith it is that the who practices but if i were the  priest of a church that was directly responsible for the death of 2 parishoners i would not be using the argument that more die in car accidents. But the original point i was making which you have illustrated with clarity is that even those wno argue in favour of this industry often dont deny the things that normal citizens find alarming. Their view is just so warped that they see noting abnormal about it. So Natsap should be encouraged to have parents talk about the lifesaving incarceration of their kids. Let them describe in detail as well  the "workshops" that "heal" their kids. Even if congress dont do much hopefully american parents will get a detailed understanding of what goes on and will see it is not a normal boarding school like environment with therapy

[Anonymous]

Who do you work for  :question:  :question:  :question:

I am APALLED by that ... you have no decency  :exclaim:

NO CHILD keels over and dies in public school or anywhere  :exclaim: We as a society has NOTHING to do with the discussion ... the question is what are YOU doing to prevent kids from dying ... and the answer is NOTHING  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim: or otherwise you would have cared even a little bit.

I am VERY glad I found this site ... I cannot believe the lack of couth and caring you display ... I was going to enroll my son in Wilderness Therapy before someone gave me this link (THANK YOU SEAN TURTLEDOVE) ... but after reading what YOU wrote I definitely will not  :exclaim:

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: