Sumner Hawley

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Hyde Schools

Sumner Hawley

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Anonymous:

--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---Back to the topic. I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him. Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you? Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?
--- End quote ---

I for one would need to know what you were talking about. There was a story about a guy that came back to work for that road show the school did. There is a story, unsubstantiated, that he had some kid of sexual relation with Sumner. If that were true I would say it was a break of trust in the same way that Joe and AVH was, but not sexual predation. But look at another case.

A returning alum is getting the wood put to her in the Penthouse dorm by a teacher. Enough so the sound is traveling though the walls to the students rooms. Sound pretty smarmy. Fill in the names and it seems like good old fashion sex between consenting adults.

I hope you know what you are talking about when you throw this kind of crap out into a public forum, Fuck the lawyers, karma will get you man.

Ursus:

--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---
--- Quote from: ""Guest"" ---Back to the topic. I am sure some were deeply moved and changed for the better by knowing Mr. Hawley, but I think that boost would have taken a big nose dive if you came back to visit or teach, only for a come-on from him. Was that the "unique potential" he saw when he stuck up for you? Was he just out of touch, or maybe were his jollies in question?
--- End quote ---
I for one would need to know what you were talking about. There was a story about a guy that came back to work for that road show the school did. There is a story, unsubstantiated, that he had some kid of sexual relation with Sumner. If that were true I would say it was a break of trust in the same way that Joe and AVH was, but not sexual predation. But look at another case.

A returning alum is getting the wood put to her in the Penthouse dorm by a teacher. Enough so the sound is traveling though the walls to the students rooms. Sound pretty smarmy. Fill in the names and it seems like good old fashion sex between consenting adults.

I hope you know what you are talking about when you throw this kind of crap out into a public forum, Fuck the lawyers, karma will get you man.
--- End quote ---

Personally, I do consider it to be sexual predation. I also consider Joe Gauld's involvement with the former student AVH to be in that same category: sexual predation. It may not be "criminal" from the standpoint of the American legal system, since we are talking about returning alums, but I still consider it to be predatory in nature. That's my opinion, and I stand by it. You can call me any name you'd like, if it makes you feel you have bigger balls. You might also want to consider the possibility that you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot.

Hyde has had plenty of other cases which were criminal; I certainly do not need to add to that list, it's plenty long enough as it is. And as you well know, I never called it "child molestation." And I never used the term "boys." That is, with respect to Sumner Hawley. Some people need to get a handle on their riled up imaginations and put their petty personal vendettas to rest.

You can rattle on about karma all you want; I am still entitled to my opinion. I'd like to see how you would feel about knowingly sending your kids to an institution which has a history of kids and alums being subjected to these kinds of shenanigans. I would venture that you chose to forgo that pleasure.

Ursus:
Let me once again pull out that quote from the Topica list which discusses Rutter, emphasis mine:

--- Quote ---Rutter takes the position that a "forbidden zone always exists in the relationship between doctor and patient, therapist and client, clergyman and congregant, lawyer and client, teacher and student. All of these professions carry a special trust not to abuse the seen or unseen dependent elements that inevitably develop." Because of the greater power of the professional, the client is unable to give truly informed consent, and it is thus the responsibility of the person in the more powerful position to control the necessary boundary between the two parties.

"Amorous relationships that might be appropriate in other circumstances are always wrong when they occur between any teacher or officer and any student for whom he or she has a professional responsibility. Further, such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
--- End quote ---

Let's now pull up a picture of the circumstances. While still students, these alums were subjected to and participated in an "experiment" (Hyde's term) of thought coercion and behavior modification for a small number of years. During that time, faculty were considered next to God as far as having any kind of moral authority is concerned, and on a more mundane level, had the capacity to determine in very real ways a student's success or failure in the system, let alone their ability to even graduate. Since Hyde's system of awarding certificates, let alone diplomas, is SO subjective and amenable to intervention on the part of even a single faculty member, the power of this position can not be underestimated.

Said alums come back for a visit, or to teach, whatever, after a few years of college. Tell me that you wouldn't be pulled right back into that same mindset you were in previously, during the formative years of your youth! You are right there, in the same environment, the same power structure still in place, most of the same people still there, the same campus, the same smells, the same routine... After all, it has only been a couple of years. And then, while you are there, one of your teachers, or Gauld himself, lets it be known to you that their interest in you is less than platonic. What would YOU do?

I think most normal people's reaction would be to run for the hills. But... you've been brainwashed to believe that your former teachers are next to God. They, better than you, have the know-how and the moral authority to make those kind of judgments. And, you believe in Hyde -- you have to, after all, you graduated -- so you believe in them too...

I think this goes far beyond "unseemly," or "smarmy," or "good old-fashioned sex between consenting adults." The power dynamic is far too disparate. In my opinion, the issue of "full consent" is more than severely tainted, at best.

hyde82:
Sumner was around Hyde in the late 70's and on the board if I recall later. I can't believe you are still talking about him. In fact, I have read quite a bit of these posts and can't believe there are people out there still affected by their high school. Get over it people.. it was high school. I will bet that every single private boarding school has the same exact issues as Hyde when it comes to sexual indiscretions between students and faculty. It is sad. But 25+ years later and still letting it run your life? I think people that are affected by things to this extent are affected by choice.

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