The issue from a parents perspective

[Anonymous]

PS.............

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICHELLE!!

Today would have been Michelle's 33rd Birthday.  Hard to imagine her as being 33 years old.  She will be 16 years old to me until the day I die.

Catherine

[lorrispickelmire]

Once again you jump to my defense, but let me get this one.  As a survivor, I am a sucessful, happily married mom and gramma, and while my son was a handful during his early to mid teens, I never once considered handing the job of raising my child to someone else.  I taught him that actions come with consequences, but that fear had no place in a parent child relationship, and I tough-loved him right through his rebellion.  I run two support and healing groups for survivors who have also fought the good fight to overcome the abuse they suffered.  I will not candy coat it for you, some survivors only survive in the fact that they still draw air.  Some were so horribly abused they will never recover, but most have come out the other side a little wiser, a little tougher, and a lot more outspoken.  That seems to be the issue you have a problem with.  I know as a parent to give any credibility to survivors you would have to except the guilt, and for some parents this is something they cannot do, but you as a parent, even if you were lied to, were not abused.  You were not forced to kneel on pencils in a bathtub for over 8 hours and struck if you so much as tried to reposition your weight, you were not forced to brush you teeth until your gums bled for four days because you dared to ask for a new toothbrush, you were not raped and told that no one would believe you, you were not forced to eat food with bugs in it.  So, yes while your trust was betrayed, your child was abused.  Survivors who have come through and are willing to tell the story have earned the right, if you don't like it, don't listen, but don't you dare judge.  And another thing, don't accuse people of being junkies, that is rude and demoralizing.  I was sent to the program I was in, not for drug use, but because my father was a pedophile and my mom couldn't dump me back on him.

[Joyce Harris]

Well as a parent I can honestly say I really dislike this trend that places the blame on the shoulders of us parents!

These places are very deceptive and use all sorts of gimmicks to trick us into sending our children to them.

Further, I believe survivors are terrible examples of advocates. They come across as strung out little junkies who spend 3 hours out of 4 exspousing deranged conspiracy theories.

What really needs to happen, and I'm very grateful to Congressmen George Miller for his action, is the voices of parents need to be heard more and more. We parents have far more credibility than the survivors. Most of these young kids are far to troubled to be of much use. Imagine if some of these shabby young men and women testified in front of congress?
It would have killed every shred of credibility that this movement has! G. Miller was very wise to limit the witness pool to just the three parents that he did. Their testimony was far more powerful and moving that what could come from an ex-junkie.  

I can't help but feeling sorry for them and wanting to help them out in every way I possible can. We really do need to do more for these poor young men and women in the way of getting them good job skills and a helping hand up out of their terrible circumstances!

I disagree with this "parent" who is posting - because most parents do accept the "blame" for placing their child in a program.  Parents, like those testifying before the GAO Hearing, can explain WHY many of us were mislead by fraudulent advertising, lies, and false promises - but most parents accept their reponsibilities.

I strongly disagree this this "parent's" notion that our children who are survivors of abusive facilities would not be good witnesses before the next GAO Hearing - and would be viewed as "ex-junkies....or shabby young men or women."  This parent does not speak for me, or my daughter.  Most children enrolled in a program were not shabby drug addicts or "junkies."

Hanzomon4 may ask posters, "don't flame this thread," but the recent posts advising suvivors to take up guns and kill their parents, is disturbing.  
Some of our children were part of the decision-making process of enrolliing in their so-called  "boarding schools" or wilderness programs.  My daughter participated in the decision to go to "boarding school," and Michelle Sutton participated in the decision to attend a wilderness program. My family got lucky - and my abused daughter returned home.  And I, along with my husband,  do accept the responsibilty for enrolling my daughter at Whitmore Academy - and for leaving her there for almost 2 months.

My point is:  I don't read posts where parents advise children/survisors to take up guns and kill the staff who abused them.
We parents may appear naive and stupid - but we depend on the court system and legal system for what little justice we can receive.
We can hope that the GAO Hearings will generate some legislation and regulations that will ensure the future safety of children.

Some posters downgrade the attempts of politicians like Congressman Miller; and any type of legislature to address the issues in this industry. YET, they call for a "CHILDREN'S BILL OF RIGHTS."  How do they propose a Bill of Rights can be passed, if not through politicians and Congress?

[Nihilanthic]

Well as a parent I can honestly say I really dislike this trend that places the blame on the shoulders of us parents!

These places are very deceptive and use all sorts of gimmicks to trick us into sending our children to them.

Further, I believe survivors are terrible examples of advocates. They come across as strung out little junkies who spend 3 hours out of 4 exspousing deranged conspiracy theories.

What really needs to happen, and I'm very grateful to Congressmen George Miller for his action, is the voices of parents need to be heard more and more. We parents have far more credibility than the survivors. Most of these young kids are far to troubled to be of much use. Imagine if some of these shabby young men and women testified in front of congress?

It would have killed every shred of credibility that this movement has! G. Miller was very wise to limit the witness pool to just the three parents that he did. Their testimony was far more powerful and moving that what could come from an ex-junkie.  

I can't help but feeling sorry for them and wanting to help them out in every way I possible can. We really do need to do more for these poor young men and women in the way of getting them good job skills and a helping hand up out of their terrible circumstances!

I like how you say everyone who was in a program was a "Junkie", right after bitching about blame being put on the shoulders of parents.

BUT you do raise a important issue. Nobody who has kids apparently wants to take responsibility for the problems their kids face, even if it is the fault of the parent.

So I guess that means anything done constructively would have to involve ass-kissing and sugarcoating for the likes of you. Which immediately makes me not good P.R. because I wouldn't kiss ass or sugarcoat things for someone who stupidly signed off, let escorts come and then didn't try to contact their children for months on end.

 :roll:

And no not all survivors were "junkies" or used drugs AT ALL! If you've lurked here very long you would know that. But yes, people who were hurt very severely and can't even communicate well would be pretty bad P.R. unless someone had the skills to explain "Well see this is what happens when their idea of therapy is forced on someone".

Anyway, accept the fact that as the parent you ARE responsible, and any parent who signed off on a program is at fault and to blame, and that not everyone who was in a program (if not most....) were never drug users or abusers for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Once again you jump to my defense, but let me get this one.  As a survivor, I am a sucessful, happily married mom and gramma, and while my son was a handful during his early to mid teens, I never once considered handing the job of raising my child to someone else.  I taught him that actions come with consequences, but that fear had no place in a parent child relationship, and I tough-loved him right through his rebellion.  I run two support and healing groups for survivors who have also fought the good fight to overcome the abuse they suffered.  I will not candy coat it for you, some survivors only survive in the fact that they still draw air.  Some were so horribly abused they will never recover, but most have come out the other side a little wiser, a little tougher, and a lot more outspoken.  That seems to be the issue you have a problem with.  I know as a parent to give any credibility to survivors you would have to except the guilt, and for some parents this is something they cannot do, but you as a parent, even if you were lied to, were not abused.  You were not forced to kneel on pencils in a bathtub for over 8 hours and struck if you so much as tried to reposition your weight, you were not forced to brush you teeth until your gums bled for four days because you dared to ask for a new toothbrush, you were not raped and told that no one would believe you, you were not forced to eat food with bugs in it.  So, yes while your trust was betrayed, your child was abused.  Survivors who have come through and are willing to tell the story have earned the right, if you don't like it, don't listen, but don't you dare judge.  And another thing, don't accuse people of being junkies, that is rude and demoralizing.  I was sent to the program I was in, not for drug use, but because my father was a pedophile and my mom couldn't dump me back on him.

I am SO SICK of people assuming that if you just teach your kid about consequences, and love them enough, they will get through adolescence OK. It's just not so. There are kids who have LEARNING DISABILITIES OR BRAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCES, OR AUTISM, ETC, AND HAVE PROBLEMS UNRELATED TO PARENTING. jeez people, do some research. My child did NOT end up in RTC because I wanted someone else to parent him, or because I was a bad parent, or because I didn't draw the line with him, or because I had some sick ideas about punishing him. He ended up in RTC after a psych hospitalization at the recommnedation of a whole team of doctors, and I suspect many kids follow the same route. I was not going to abondon him there, he was there for 6 - 8 months for observation and intervention. It was partly  up to him to decide if he wanted to use the skills he had learned to start following the rules at home. This "Blame the Parents" for not being good parents thing is just so juvenile. RTC's today are different than 20 years ago.  Are some of them abusive? No doubt. They also have medical staff, they have clinical teams, they market themselves as step down options to lock down psych wards. My son spent a month on a locked psych unit. RTC was almost identical, except he could leave if he really wanted to. Now, whether or not these places are doing the job they are selling, is a whole nother story. But just for a moment, let's assume that there are parents out there who want to do the right thing, perhaps they got conned, perhaps they didn't do enough research.  The bottom line, is most of them had the best intentions to help their kids, not cause them more harm. Many of us have been horribly abused by own kids in an effort to keep them in the family unit, and have caused possibly irreparable harm to our other children by allowing it to continue for so long.

I have listened to survivors here on fornits. I learned some things. But what I am not going to do is put any blame on myself for being a bad parent. So Ms. Survivor, while you are asking people not to judge you as a survivor, don't you dare judge parents either, and turn this into a totally simplistic issue of people just not raising their kids right. Shame on you, if you are a parent, you should know better.  Parents that come here trying to learn something get called a LOT worse than junkies. You can't have it just one way.

Try focusing on the deception in the program marketing, and the ridiculous lack of community resources, stop pitting survivors against parents, you might actually get something accomplished. This blame thing is just so dumb.

PB Mom.
I stopped logging in due to all the BS with my user account getting logged out and my PW not working.

[Anonymous]

I've got your family unit right here.

[Anonymous]

I'm a parent.  In my experience the biggest problem in the "help" industry which includes psychiatrists and psychologists, not just RTCs is that very few so-called "professionals" have the balls to examine and point out the problems in the entire family situation.  Almost all parents lack the courage to take a hard, honest look into how their behavior and attitudes have helped to get the entire family to where they are.  Many parents seem to be much more psychologically fragile then their "troubled" kids.  They cannot really take close examination or anything smacking of criticism.  The so-called "professionals" cater to those who control the purse strings.  No one becomes a "troubled teen" overnight; it is a from birth process.  Most parents don't realize that they cannot really control kids; they can and do influence them, in good and bad ways.  Good influence starts in childhood and begins with trust.  There seems to be two major parenting modes with thousands of variations and they are:  1) I'm the parent, the boss and you better do what I say or else.  Do as I say, not as I do.  2) I'm the parent and my desire is to guide, protect and honor your humanity.  I will live my life as an example you can trust.  
How can we hold kids "accountable" if we don't hold ourselves accountable?   I know this doesn't help once people find themselves at the mercy of the industry and are at a loss.  Parental guilt can be really corrosive as well, to everyone; a guilty parent sends the message that since they are guilty of screwing up as parents then it follows that the result, their child, is really screwed up.  And parents who feel really guilty tend to make decsions based more on a need to assuage the guilt feelings which can blind them to what the real need is.

What has helped me with my own kids whose behavior at times would certainly be viewed by society as malignant  is being honest with myself; painful retrospection, accountibility for my own errors, a genuine and avid interest in LISTENING to how whatever I have done has affected them and working to develop a real friendship with them.  Listening instead of lecturing, being there for them no matter what, being on their side no matter, has enabled a real bond of trust to develop.  And I love my kids, have always worked hard, done the very best I could always with the best of intentions and still made mistakes.  Such is life.

[felice]

The abuse is what's most important to me

I shall feel the sting of HOW Michelle was treated while in the care of others for the rest of my life.

I shall continue to stay focused on the abuse until something is done that will hold this industry accountable for treating children this way.  

I REPEAT.............

I could not have DONE TO Michelle what was DONE TO her and walked away a free person.  Why is it that in this industry it's acceptable to treat children this way?

Yes, I was lied to.  That hurts too.  People lie to get what they want, OR to cover up something they've done that is wrong.  The lies we were told are not what killed my daughter.  It was the "mindset" that was created, nurished, and fed to the people within this industry that killed my daughter.  

I too am grateful for the GAO report and what Congressman Miller hopes to accomplish.  

BUT, I believe that until this industry is held accountable at the same level a parent would be held accountable, kids will continue to be neglected, abused, molested and die in this industry.

A "mindset" cannot be regulated.  It needs to be weeded out.  How?  By holding the people with the "mindset" accountable for their actions.

Now, if this post ends up at the bottom of this forum, we know it must have hit a nerve.

It's the LEGAL ABUSE that hurts the most.

Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc.
Catherine Sutton

I think Catherine said it best when she said "it's the LEGAL ABUSUE that hurts the most"
As a survivor and a parent it is a double edge sword we now have to worry about CPS taking our Children away and placing them.
It's not only for the rich kids anymore.

[lorrispickelmire]

My response was not to parents like you, or Deb, or anyone else that is fighting to stop abuse in the system, it was written for parents like mine, and the parent that said that survivors are a bunch of junkies,  I need to get better about putting disclaimers in my replies, I am offending the wrong people.  I do understand there are a lot of parents out there with a lot to deal with, but I don't believe that programs are helping those very people who need help the worst.  I was not trying to be judgemental, I was trying to explain that many of us are just normal people.  Once again, I apologize if you felt that was directed at you in any way.  I just get really sick of the blame the victim thing.  And my child was ADHD and did have some depression issues, but with a lot of work, we got through it, and he turned out to be a really great kid.  I won't ever say it was easy, but we made it.  Feel free to PM me any time you feel I am out of line, or reply as you did, I will be happy to clarify.

[TheWho]

This parent summed it up best:

"My child did NOT end up in RTC because I wanted someone else to parent him, or because I was a bad parent, or because I didn't draw the line with him, or because I had some sick ideas about punishing him. He ended up in RTC after a psych hospitalization at the recommnedation of a whole team of doctors, and I suspect many kids follow the same route."

[Anonymous]

What a scumbag you are, TheWho...
Y'know your username really should be changed, as you have defiled the name of a great band long enough...

[Anonymous]

What a scumbag you are, TheWho...
Y'know your username really should be changed, as you have defiled the name of a great band long enough...

He should change it from the Who to the Screw

[Nihilanthic]

[/b]

1.   A new medication that will take time to see if it works or makes a difference

2.   A new approach to see if Johnny will go back to school, stop stealing cars, leaving pills around the house for his 2 year old sister to ingest,  hitting his mother, cutting themselves, leaving razors on the floor……

3.   Do nothing.

Other options:

1.  The child dies.

2.  The child goes to jail.

3.   Therapeutic boarding schools:  The child is removed from their environment (which is toxic) and placed in a therapeutic environment where they learn to get over their problems, attend school, drug free, healthy diet, trained staff, individual therapy..

In short the parents are offered a solution to their childs problem, parents problem or family problem however you want to define it, that they can relate to.  Parents love solutions.. they don’t like:  Lets try this or lets see how Johnny is doing next year..lets wait and see… because there is little time left.

The problem is which school to choose… there isn’t much time.  If parents come onto sites like fornits they hear all schools are bad and they force kids to eat their own vomit and lock them in cages, which even for an uninformed person is viewed as weird and must be coming from people with an agenda or kids who didn’t do well or dropped out.  So who do parents turn to next?  Education Consultants… Yea!!!!!  They listen to our concerns, offer us coffee and maybe stickers for the little ones and they have a solution and a good fit for Johnny… so off to boarding school.  The problem is the educational consultants may not necessarily place Johnny’s best interests before their commission.

So who dropped the ball during this process… where can we see improvements made to help Johnny and his parents?

I think the people on fornits have the information, knowledge and skills to help people make a really good and informed decision for their family.  If this information could be filtered or organized in a way that parents can relate to, it could eventually help these parents/kids who are being placed outside the home for minor reason like "Pot Smoking" or expose schools which are a bad fit for them or out right abusive instead of telling them the entire industry is corrupt.





...

That post is the biggest load of bullshit I have EVER read.

reposting and bumping so more people can laugh at it  :rofl:

[TheWho]

Thanks for your contribution, Niles, its good to see you are trying out words.  The next step might be to stop bashing what others write and contribute an opinion of your own.  Maybe start focusing on helping out some kids/parents instead of trolling.
Give it a try.

[Nihilanthic]

Thanks for your contribution, Niles, its good to see you are trying out words.  The next step might be to stop bashing what others write and contribute an opinion of your own.  Maybe start focusing on helping out some kids/parents instead of trolling.
Give it a try.

You're new here aren't you?