Thread split: avoid derailment of ST responds to Astart

[hanzomon4]

Like the Guest said the Public schools are monitored by many gov agencies allowing for more accurate numbers.

And the numbers are a good thing, I agree, but it is not helping the kids. I would have liked to see NATSAP step up and provide data or monitor the programs more closely[Who you said that this was the problem with the public school system, that teacher trade orgs were protecting bad teachers. You also tried to attack us by saying we advocated for this very thing when we never did. Why bash teacher trade orgs that do the same thing as Natsap?].  Maybe this is what they need to get their ass in gear (or put them out of business) and let someone else step in, a more independent body of people.

We do want to force private programs to provide data on instances of fraud, neglect, abuse, and deaths among other bits of reporting data. How is that a bad thing?

I believe we all want this… I think we may disagree on the proper reporting method or vehicle.  I have been back and forth (flip flop) on the issue of regulation and I presently don’t see any value in it, except maybe as a means to collect information.  Besides that it only serves to increase the size of the government… there is no evidence that kids have benefitted from it in the public school system[Any proof that it has hurt kids? Better yet any proof that a lack of reporting, or gov oversight for that matter, would keep kids in public schools safe?].



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Alright who if we are going to have this discussion lets have it here and not in the "ST lady responds to Astart study" thread, k?

Edited:Corrections

[hanzomon4]

See, now I believe its that insular and secluded society that breeds and allows for the cover-ups of what happens.  Kids are so scared or awed by these supposed gurus that are 'saving their lives' that they trust them.  The parents even more.  More than public school teachers at least.  Afterall, isn't part of the parents who use these shitholes claim?  That they're looking for a place where there is more supervision than if the kids are in public school?  Wouldn't that imply that things would be more secure and safe in TBS/RTCs?  Public schools don't have complete control over kids 24/7 like these places do.  Public schools don't have the influence over what kids think (not to the degree that TBSs do).  Public schools don't tell kids that they'll DIE without them.  Public schools don't break these kids down into the most vulnerable of states making them ripe for predators.  

Pedos like these close-knit little societies. Especially the ones that value program loyalty over the kids well-being.  They know that the programs will more than likely aid and assist in a cover up for fear of bad publicity.  Witness Larry Dubinsky at Hyde.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22969



Fear, isolation, humiliation and degredation are breeding grounds for these creeps and dangerous in general to the kids.

I don’t agree with your entire post, but we agree in the area that kids are safer in TBS since they have 24/7 supervision, are on a tight schedule (as CCM mentioned),  TBS’s have staff which are closer in age than most public schools, in most cases a therapist who they can confide in and in turn reports back to a therapist at home.  There is a much higher level of supervision than in Public school.

In the public schools the teachers tend to band together, protect tenure…they have created unions to protect themselves (not the kids), so the Pedos (as you call them) can hang on longer and then just move to another State when exposed.
The private sector has no tolerance, no unions or tenure to deal with…the person is gone in a heartbeat.



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[Deborah]

I believe we all want this… I think we may disagree on the proper reporting method or vehicle. I have been back and forth (flip flop) on the issue of regulation and I presently don’t see any value in it, except maybe as a means to collect information. Besides that it only serves to increase the size of the government… there is no evidence that kids have benefitted from it in the public school system

[Any proof that it has hurt kids? Better yet any proof that a lack of reporting, or gov oversight for that matter, would keep kids in public schools safe?].

Some would argue that abuse is inherent in any institution where kids are warehoused where square pegs are forced into round holes, public or private. Short of homeschooling, there are good private schools options available that don't oppress and label kids. They foster independent and critical thinking skills. The industry is a back-up system for public schools. If they can't be oppressed into compliance at school, off they go to private prisons to have their minds rearranged, washed, programmed.