Author Topic: The hearings have started, watch the hearings  (Read 17035 times)

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Offline Deprogrammed

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here w ego again
« Reply #120 on: October 13, 2007, 04:30:54 PM »
Fighting, maligning, bickering, basically accomplishing nothing.
Why?
What is this accomplishing? Hatred among survivors is all I see it accomplishing.
This is the time we should all be banding together trying to organize and accomplish some goals before the next hearing comes up in february.
Wow!
-DP


Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
funny how we see it differently, I saw George as unpleased that Kutz didnt have more facts in front of him and seemed to dance around some of the questions.... I do agree that they were not pleased with Moss's preparedness and wanting to take everything back to the board.

You see everything differently, since your head is buried in your ass.

Zen, you should choose a new avatar until you can get yourself more centered and maybe relax a little.  Try sharing your point of view instead of just attacking other people.  I realize the hearing didnt go your way, it was'nt an open hearing to everyone (albeit, only the first) but they are going to reconvene and discuss the open issues in more detail the next time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline ZenAgent

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Re: here w ego again
« Reply #121 on: October 13, 2007, 08:04:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Fighting, maligning, bickering, basically accomplishing nothing.
Why?
What is this accomplishing? Hatred among survivors is all I see it accomplishing.
This is the time we should all be banding together trying to organize and accomplish some goals before the next hearing comes up in february.
Wow!
-DP


Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
funny how we see it differently, I saw George as unpleased that Kutz didnt have more facts in front of him and seemed to dance around some of the questions.... I do agree that they were not pleased with Moss's preparedness and wanting to take everything back to the board.

You see everything differently, since your head is buried in your ass.

Zen, you should choose a new avatar until you can get yourself more centered and maybe relax a little.  Try sharing your point of view instead of just attacking other people.  I realize the hearing didnt go your way, it was'nt an open hearing to everyone (albeit, only the first) but they are going to reconvene and discuss the open issues in more detail the next time.

Well, this is a scaled down version of what will happen when NATSAP (represented here by staunch supporter and my good friend TheWho) and the survivors (represented in your quoted example by myself).

It isn't "fighting", especially considering the example you posted.  That's like George Miller saying during the hearing "Look, parents, NATSAP...you both have common interests, stop fighting,"  The survivors are united, but this forum is open to all opinions.

TheWho is not a program survivor, he's a supporter of some programs, to be fair.  He's a staunch supporter of NATSAP and giving that self-regulating body some "teeth".  
Quote from: ""TheWho""

I am interested in helping parents make the right choice for their children and cut thru some of this bias and bs here.  People who clog up this forum with personal vendettas against programs are only serving themselves and their time and effort does not benefit any of the kids...

Fornits is the most open forum I have ever seen.


That's his position, which seems to be much like your own, and he's free to post it on Fornits because it is indeed open.

Most of us disagree with TheWho.

He's my friend, though, as long as he buys a Lamborghini for me like he promised.  Right, D?  My MAN!  If you can't beat 'em, bribe 'em!

No fighting on CAFETY at the moment, it's quiet and calm.  There's an option, if discord is upsetting you.  I hope not, and we do get things accomplished, you can't always see what's been done.  Ignore the squabbles.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: here w ego again
« Reply #122 on: October 14, 2007, 05:54:24 PM »
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""
Fighting, maligning, bickering, basically accomplishing nothing.
Why?
What is this accomplishing? Hatred among survivors is all I see it accomplishing.
This is the time we should all be banding together trying to organize and accomplish some goals before the next hearing comes up in february.
Wow!
-DP


Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
funny how we see it differently, I saw George as unpleased that Kutz didnt have more facts in front of him and seemed to dance around some of the questions.... I do agree that they were not pleased with Moss's preparedness and wanting to take everything back to the board.

You see everything differently, since your head is buried in your ass.

Zen, you should choose a new avatar until you can get yourself more centered and maybe relax a little.  Try sharing your point of view instead of just attacking other people.  I realize the hearing didnt go your way, it was'nt an open hearing to everyone (albeit, only the first) but they are going to reconvene and discuss the open issues in more detail the next time.

Well, this is a scaled down version of what will happen when NATSAP (represented here by staunch supporter and my good friend TheWho) and the survivors (represented in your quoted example by myself).

It isn't "fighting", especially considering the example you posted.  That's like George Miller saying during the hearing "Look, parents, NATSAP...you both have common interests, stop fighting,"  The survivors are united, but this forum is open to all opinions.

TheWho is not a program survivor, he's a supporter of some programs, to be fair.  He's a staunch supporter of NATSAP and giving that self-regulating body some "teeth".  
Quote from: ""TheWho""

I am interested in helping parents make the right choice for their children and cut thru some of this bias and bs here.  People who clog up this forum with personal vendettas against programs are only serving themselves and their time and effort does not benefit any of the kids...

Fornits is the most open forum I have ever seen.

That's his position, which seems to be much like your own, and he's free to post it on Fornits because it is indeed open.[/b]

Hey Zen,
 First of all let me please correct you on one thing. I am a survivor of Kids helping Kids ( a straight incorporated direct descendant program in Ohio now, KY when I was in there) .
Also, maybe I shouldve made myself more clear in my previous post.
I do not agree with "The Who" (excluding the rock band, as I love them). I just think that ye are fighting in the wrong place possibly.
I mean to say, take action aside from fornits. There was just this hearing that has happened, write to the Gao, help to provide your signed testimony. I am not saying either that ye have not taken any action outside of here, as I do not know you at all.
I watched the NATSAP lady( and i use that term very loosely) lie and stall to quickly come up with empty shelled answers to the hearings committee members to answer to them about her part of her and her organizations accountibility in these matters.
on the other hand if ye have not tried to reach out other than on this website or other websites now would be the time. There is going to be another hearing coming in Feb. 2008 to the best of my own understanding.
Please do not accuse me of siding with the who or any other pro-program entity as I do not and I will not.
I was abused in the place I was in along with also being sexually abused and the program director as well as the staff never reporting it to the police.
Enough of me defending my position, because when it all comes down in the end, and there will someday be an end to this madness, there will be historical record of me fighting for every childs rights in America , and historical record of me fighting against any form of child abuse, but epecially of this particular variety.
Zen, again, I am sorry if I have offended you in some way, I just feel it is easy to be side- tracked by these trolls around here, when we could be out aiding in the fightagainst these places providing the right people with information.
Again, I wish I would have elaborated more in my previous post, and made it more clear what I meant. I regreat not doing that now, but that is the only thing about it that I do regret.

sincerely,
-DP

Most of us disagree with TheWho.

He's my friend, though, as long as he buys a Lamborghini for me like he promised.  Right, D?  My MAN!  If you can't beat 'em, bribe 'em!

No fighting on CAFETY at the moment, it's quiet and calm.  There's an option, if discord is upsetting you.  I hope not, and we do get things accomplished, you can't always see what's been done.  Ignore the squabbles.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline ZenAgent

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Re: here w ego again
« Reply #123 on: October 14, 2007, 06:54:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""

Hey Zen,
 First of all let me please correct you on one thing. I am a survivor of Kids helping Kids ( a straight incorporated direct descendant program in Ohio now, KY when I was in there) .
Also, maybe I shouldve made myself more clear in my previous post.
I do not agree with "The Who" (excluding the rock band, as I love them). I just think that ye are fighting in the wrong place possibly.
I mean to say, take action aside from fornits. There was just this hearing that has happened, write to the Gao, help to provide your signed testimony. I am not saying either that ye have not taken any action outside of here, as I do not know you at all.
I watched the NATSAP lady( and i use that term very loosely) lie and stall to quickly come up with empty shelled answers to the hearings committee members to answer to them about her part of her and her organizations accountibility in these matters.
on the other hand if ye have not tried to reach out other than on this website or other websites now would be the time. There is going to be another hearing coming in Feb. 2008 to the best of my own understanding.
Please do not accuse me of siding with the who or any other pro-program entity as I do not and I will not.
I was abused in the place I was in along with also being sexually abused and the program director as well as the staff never reporting it to the police.
Enough of me defending my position, because when it all comes down in the end, and there will someday be an end to this madness, there will be historical record of me fighting for every childs rights in America , and historical record of me fighting against any form of child abuse, but epecially of this particular variety.
Zen, again, I am sorry if I have offended you in some way, I just feel it is easy to be side- tracked by these trolls around here, when we could be out aiding in the fightagainst these places providing the right people with information.
Again, I wish I would have elaborated more in my previous post, and made it more clear what I meant. I regreat not doing that now, but that is the only thing about it that I do regret.

sincerely,
-DP

Most of us disagree with TheWho.



DP, I didn't mean to come off scrappy to you, and I didn't elaborate enough either.   I meant you shared the sentiment of cutting through the BS and bias.  I've seen your posts on the Straight thread, I know you're a survivor and I wasn't trying to imply you were a tourist.

I wasn't offended - PV showed me what offensive really is, anything else is a pale imitation.  To be honest, I thought you were someone from another group's forum where some heated discussion occurred not long ago.  I kept my comments public and was branded crude and immature by the other side of the debate.  All the while, they were sending PM's and emails that would have made a whore blush.

No, I'm with you, DP.  Mixing it up with TheWho is an exercise in tail-chasing, I know, and you're absolutely right, it's best not to engage in barb-shooting.  I wish he would change his name, I love the band, too.  I hate the association he's creating.  Pete Townshend would loathe "programming" teens through BM, if he isn't aware of the shit.  Teen angst can be a creative force, not a pop psycho-babble "mental illness" like ODD.

I'm with you, let there be solidarity.  This is too important a time to be expending energy on trolls.

At one time, derailing a train was a capital offense.  It's a shame we can't apply it to trolls hell-bent on derailing a thread.  I take the pledge to not engage the trolls in flame wars.  This probably means TheWho won't buy me a Lamborghini, that was contingent on me being his groveling bitch.  Like I would...

Again, there was misunderstanding and I apologize.  I got your back, and we got a united front.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Deprogrammed

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Re: here w ego again
« Reply #124 on: October 14, 2007, 07:20:58 PM »
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Deprogrammed""

Hey Zen,
 First of all let me please correct you on one thing. I am a survivor of Kids helping Kids ( a straight incorporated direct descendant program in Ohio now, KY when I was in there) .
Also, maybe I shouldve made myself more clear in my previous post.
I do not agree with "The Who" (excluding the rock band, as I love them). I just think that ye are fighting in the wrong place possibly.
I mean to say, take action aside from fornits. There was just this hearing that has happened, write to the Gao, help to provide your signed testimony. I am not saying either that ye have not taken any action outside of here, as I do not know you at all.
I watched the NATSAP lady( and i use that term very loosely) lie and stall to quickly come up with empty shelled answers to the hearings committee members to answer to them about her part of her and her organizations accountibility in these matters.
on the other hand if ye have not tried to reach out other than on this website or other websites now would be the time. There is going to be another hearing coming in Feb. 2008 to the best of my own understanding.
Please do not accuse me of siding with the who or any other pro-program entity as I do not and I will not.
I was abused in the place I was in along with also being sexually abused and the program director as well as the staff never reporting it to the police.
Enough of me defending my position, because when it all comes down in the end, and there will someday be an end to this madness, there will be historical record of me fighting for every childs rights in America , and historical record of me fighting against any form of child abuse, but epecially of this particular variety.
Zen, again, I am sorry if I have offended you in some way, I just feel it is easy to be side- tracked by these trolls around here, when we could be out aiding in the fightagainst these places providing the right people with information.
Again, I wish I would have elaborated more in my previous post, and made it more clear what I meant. I regreat not doing that now, but that is the only thing about it that I do regret.

sincerely,
-DP

Most of us disagree with TheWho.


DP, I didn't mean to come off scrappy to you, and I didn't elaborate enough either.   I meant you shared the sentiment of cutting through the BS and bias.  I've seen your posts on the Straight thread, I know you're a survivor and I wasn't trying to imply you were a tourist.

I wasn't offended - PV showed me what offensive really is, anything else is a pale imitation.  To be honest, I thought you were someone from another group's forum where some heated discussion occurred not long ago.  I kept my comments public and was branded crude and immature by the other side of the debate.  All the while, they were sending PM's and emails that would have made a whore blush.

No, I'm with you, DP.  Mixing it up with TheWho is an exercise in tail-chasing, I know, and you're absolutely right, it's best not to engage in barb-shooting.  I wish he would change his name, I love the band, too.  I hate the association he's creating.  Pete Townshend would loathe "programming" teens through BM, if he isn't aware of the shit.  Teen angst can be a creative force, not a pop psycho-babble "mental illness" like ODD.

I'm with you, let there be solidarity.  This is too important a time to be expending energy on trolls.

At one time, derailing a train was a capital offense.  It's a shame we can't apply it to trolls hell-bent on derailing a thread.  I take the pledge to not engage the trolls in flame wars.  This probably means TheWho won't buy me a Lamborghini, that was contingent on me being his groveling bitch.  Like I would...

Again, there was misunderstanding and I apologize.  I got your back, and we got a united front.


Rock on!
I appreciate everything that ye just said to me, and will also do my best to elaborate more clearly in the future.

"Eminience Front"...lol :)

Warm regards,
-DP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline ZenAgent

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #125 on: October 14, 2007, 07:48:06 PM »
LOL...I told a certain troll recently the GAO hearings were beginning to remind me of "The Punk and the Godfather" - survivors confronting the rich, fat tormentors.  Next time, I hope survivors get to speak directly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Deprogrammed

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:)
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2007, 08:17:02 PM »
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
LOL...I told a certain troll recently the GAO hearings were beginning to remind me of "The Punk and the Godfather" - survivors confronting the rich, fat tormentors.  Next time, I hope survivors get to speak directly.

LOL! :rofl:
Me too
-DP
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Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2007, 01:56:14 PM »
Could someone who has the skill embed the hearing in a new thread called Watch GAO Hearing, or some such, please.
Some people haven't been able to view it with either link.
Windows media never opens.
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Offline AuntieEm

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NY Times Editorial about the GAO report
« Reply #128 on: October 16, 2007, 02:12:18 PM »
New York Times
October 16, 2007
Editorial

When ‘Tough Love’ Is Too Tough

Parents who come to wit’s end with troubled teenagers sometimes enroll them in residential treatment programs — so-called boot camps or wilderness camps — that offer challenging activities, like hiking and climbing, and military-style discipline that is supposed to help set youngsters straight. Juvenile-justice researchers have long shown that the camps are less effective at curbing delinquency than boosters claim. Now an alarming study by the Government Accountability Office shows that the “tough love
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Offline exhausted

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #129 on: October 16, 2007, 02:16:18 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Could someone who has the skill embed the hearing in a new thread called Watch GAO Hearing, or some such, please.
Some people haven't been able to view it with either link.
Windows media never opens.
I've embedded what i can fid Deborah, as stated, I'l update as more becomes available, is early days yet
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Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #130 on: October 16, 2007, 03:16:18 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Could someone who has the skill embed the hearing in a new thread called Watch GAO Hearing, or some such, please.
Some people haven't been able to view it with either link.
Windows media never opens.
I've embedded what i can fid Deborah, as stated, I'l update as more becomes available, is early days yet


Thanks, but I'm refering to the GAO hearing, here
http://edlabor.house.gov/hearings/fc101007.shtml
Click here to watch archived hearing webcast »

Exhausted, would you change the title of the thread you put up to read "Video of Anderson Trial" or something.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline exhausted

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #131 on: October 16, 2007, 07:13:23 PM »
I've downloaded it to my pc Deborah but it must have some sort of restriction on it, it just comes up as being unavailable, I'll keep trying  :)
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Offline exhausted

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #132 on: October 16, 2007, 07:59:23 PM »
Update

Sorry but that file is asx. and I can't find a converter to change it, the link is dead - me thinks this has been done to stop peole like me spreading it al over the net  :lol:
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Offline EricasMom

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #133 on: October 17, 2007, 12:01:13 AM »
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Offline Antigen

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #134 on: October 17, 2007, 10:07:48 AM »
I haven't been able to see it either. That bittorrent file never worked out. Anybody rip a copy of it?
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