Author Topic: The hearings have started, watch the hearings  (Read 17036 times)

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Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2007, 07:17:31 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
if this sounds like a stupid question I apologize but what is the point of these hearings. is it to give the relevant stakeholders their "day in court" or to inform congress before a congressman comes up with a bill? What outcome is expected?


To determine if Federal legislation is needed and what that might look like. For the GAO to present the results of their investigation. The three parents who testified had experiences with 3 of the 10 programs that were highlighted in the report.  All indicators were that federal legislation is needed.
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Offline Antigen

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2007, 11:14:33 AM »
Quote from: ""Karass""
If the link isn't working, you can find a torrent file and get the full video at:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/934543

File size is 276 MB


I'm trying this again. First time failed. Couldn't run the ABC news segment either. Now THAT I REALLY could use!
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Offline AuntieEm

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Links to news stories about the GAO hearings re boot camps
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2007, 11:24:15 AM »
To recap:

The General Accounting Office (GAO), the US government's watchdog group, submitted a report to Congress this week. A hearing was held before the House Committee on Education and Labor, and representatives of the troubled teen industry testified, as did three parents whose children died in these programs.  

I will post a link to the PDF of the GAO report separately.

Here are some links:
Washington Post
GAO: Poor Staffing Cited in Youths' Deaths at 'Boot Camp'
http://http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/10/AR2007101000825.html
USA Today
GAO finds abuses at 'tough love' camps for troubled kids
http://http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-10-boot-camps_N.htm
Look for the video there also.

Thanks to parents Bob Bacon, Cynthia Harvey and Paul Lewis for testifying; to Gregory Kurtz for the report; and to Rep. George Miller (D-CA), the chair of the committee, for calling these hearings.

Notable quotes (USA Today):
Quote
"If you walked in partway through my presentation, you might have assumed I was talking about human rights violations in a Third World country," said Gregory Kutz, a GAO investigator.

Quote
Rep. Buck McKeon, the ranking Republican, said he does not like to expand the role of the federal government, "but there are some times when it has to happen."

Quote
Jan Moss, executive director of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs, said the industry wants state regulation. Her group represents 180 facilities that serve 16,000 children.

"Among our goals is the complete elimination of the abuses and neglectful practices we have heard about today," she said. "Clearly, we have a long way to go."


Notice that Moss wants state regulation, not federal. They want the kind of weak legislation passed in Montana in the last couple years that allows a board of industry insiders to regulate members of their own industry.

Please contact your members of Congress to advocate for federal oversight of programs.


AuntieEm
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Offline AuntieEm

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Link to PDF of full GAO report
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2007, 11:28:01 AM »
Here's the link to the PDF of the full GAO report:

RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT PROGRAMS
Concerns Regarding Abuse and Death in Certain Programs for Troubled
Youth

http://http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/gao_report_troubled_youth_101007.pdf


AuntieEm
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Offline Anonymous

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2007, 11:57:54 AM »
Favorite Quote by Congressman Miller:
He asked Ms. Moss, "What the hell do you (Natsap) do?"
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Offline Anonymous

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2007, 12:39:55 PM »
Yup, you can't defend against what you're defending FOR. It doesn't play. This is why Mosscunt couldn't say much of anything beyond generalities and empty nonsense. NATSAP is trying to tread water with thirty-pound blocks chained to its ankles.

And if they ever, in a fit of delusion that they're actually a regulatory organization- try to take those off, to remove the worst of the worst, the backlash will end up destroying them, programmie against programmie.

It's like asking the Iranians to do something about the insane fundamentalists. The insane fundamentalists run the place. "Vulpine Protective Services, Inc? Yeah, there's foxes in my henhouse.. and some of them are wearing your uniforms..."
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Offline Deborah

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Re: Links to news stories about the GAO hearings re boot cam
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2007, 02:00:55 PM »
Quote from: ""AuntieEm""
Notice that Moss wants state regulation, not federal. They want the kind of weak legislation passed in Montana in the last couple years that allows a board of industry insiders to regulate members of their own industry.


Yes, they would like to participate in creating regs for other states, as they did in Utah and Montana.

Movin to Montana soon.........
Gonna be an RTC tycoon..........
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2007, 02:55:38 PM »
Didn't Ken Stettler help in some way with that Montana legislation?  I thought I read that in the Utah news coverage or somewhere.

Question: How long has Ken Stettler been in charge of the licensing dept. in Utah?

Sure would have loved to see him interviewed by the committee, regarding the deaths in wilderness programs that occured on his watch, as well as the current situation with Brendan Blum who died while in the care of a program in Utah.
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Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2007, 03:44:22 PM »
Yeh, I'd like to see him grilled about this:

http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1 ... _deth.html
Stettler, a devoted Mormon, knew Jaggar and Henry well and says that he trusted them, as fellow Saints, implicitly. After Bacon's death, Stettler's confidence in Jaggar and Henry remained steadfast. He quickly cleared North Star of any wrongdoing and allowed the program to stay in business-- which it did for six months, until the state of Utah filed criminal charges in October 1994.


hs.utah.gov
May 29, 2002 Carol Sisco (801) 538-3991
Ken Stettler (801) 538-4235
Ken Stettler Named Licensing Director
Ken Stettler has been named director of the Office of Licensing in the Department of Human Services.
A 25-year DHS employee, Stettler formerly worked in the Division of YouthCorrections. "I want to make the focus of the office more customer friendly, both for the public and the providers we license," Stettler said.
Stettler has been involved in licensing issues for many years, first in Youth Corrections and later when the Office of Licensing was created.
"My primary interest in licensing came from the years I spent there where I realized the importance the office has in protecting all Human Services clients," Stettler said. "A lot of children come to Utah for treatment from other states and sometimes our office is the only agency regulating those providers."
Stettler worked on the initial licensing of youth wilderness programs in Utah and was responsible for licensing all youth programs statewide from 1990 until 1995.
Stettler has a master's degree in management and youth leadership and a bachelor's degree in therapeutic recreation, both from Brigham Young University.
He replaces Reta Oram who retired in April.

Following Ian August's death at Skyline Journey- one of the cases highlighted in the GAO report...

Stettler is making a case for shutting down SJ, which he says is critical because there has to be a consequence for Ian?s death. "I don't feel like we have a strong enough guarantee that nothing's going to happen again. If we don't level a consequence in this case it sends a message to other programs that the Off of Licensing is nothing. They need to know there are rules and there are consequences for violating those rules, especially when the violations result in a similar thing like this death."

What a sham. Skyline's license was revoked and they simply reopened under a new name- Distant Drums. What message does that send? Some consequence.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2007, 03:51:12 PM »
Another interesting tidbit that wasn't exposed in the hearing, perhaps it's in the written report....

Sagewalk employed Aaron Bacon's murderer, Eric Henry during a 9 month diversion agreement following Bacon's death. Then went on to Obsidian Trails where another death occured.
http://www.contac.org/contaclibrary/tragedy28.htm

Obsidian Trails- another program investigated in the GAO report.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2007, 06:00:51 PM »
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Offline AuntieEm

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« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2007, 06:12:14 PM »
Try this archive of the hearing at the US House site:

http://http://edlabor.house.gov/hearings/fc101007.shtml

AuntieEm
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2007, 07:10:56 PM »
i assume that it is still early days but one thing that concerned me after now watching the full 2 hrs is that the fact that the idea of tough love or a forced "therapeutic" environment is inherently a bad idea was not really focused on. Nor was the idea of incarceration without due process.

As important as it is to highlight the deaths in wilderness, there are many kids who are OK physically and even get good medical treatment but who are devistated by the process or who are surprisingly resilient but have the most miserable couple of years of their young lives. While legislation is limited in that it can only really set about bare minimum requirements and specific penalties for breaching such rules, as opposed to getting rid of programs it would still be good to focus more on this. Natsap would then have a much harder time with their "were providing options to parents" bullshit. It also may force legislators to look at the zero tolerance culture that they have played a part in creating.
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Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2007, 10:47:12 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
i assume that it is still early days but one thing that concerned me after now watching the full 2 hrs is that the fact that the idea of tough love or a forced "therapeutic" environment is inherently a bad idea was not really focused on.

Miller stated passionately that that the notion of using nature to abuse in the name of therapy (paraphrasing) was "Outrageous". He also stated that he advocates for treatment near home, and is opposed to kids crossing state lines. How he would mandate this, remains to be seen. But, it could put a significant dent in the industry cash flow. Thanks to the industry, the ICPC, which was designed to protect against unnecessary out-of-state placements (but was never fully enforced), no longer applies to the "parent choice" industry.  

Quote
Nor was the idea of incarceration without due process.

That is not particularly something you want to present as the key issue in this country, one of what, two countries, that didn't sign the UN Declaration on Children's Rights. Although, Human Rights Issue was mentioned at least twice, you have to present such "radical" ideas slowly. McCarthy also suggested the possibility of a Parents Bill of Rights.

Quote
It also may force legislators to look at the zero tolerance culture that they have played a part in creating.


Not a chance, imho.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2007, 10:58:06 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
He also stated that he advocates for treatment near home, and is opposed to kids crossing state lines. How he would mandate this, remains to be seen. But, it could put a significant dent in the industry cash flow.


A huge dent. Seems like some programs specifically take only kids from out of state. Much fewer legal complications that way.
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